Bourgeois pigs kill suicidal 16 year old boy.

[Taem]

With abortion, the nuance is deciding at what point a fetus is a citizen.

Birth. If not, why don't we arrest expectant mothers for unlawful imprisonment?

-Jester

Is it safe to assume then that human testing could be done if the embryo were to be grown in a test tube? If your definition of "birth" means exposed to the air/world around them, then under your own definition, it would be lawful to keep expermints grown in a testtube indefinitely so long as they remained suspended in an artificial embryonic solution. Fyi, I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing with what you wrote; merely playing devil's advocate with something that struck me as an obvious flaw to your logic. With all the law changes happening in acceptance of stem cell research... it's only a matter of time. I even heard scientists can grow meat right now. I dont imagine human being too terribly far off tbh.

So do you advocate things like 'designer babies'?

I know where your going with this, and no, I'm not opposed. Whats the difference between picking the sex and eye color of your baby, and doing a pre-screening test and choosing to abort if your child shows down syndrome? With both, you're making a decision based on genetics.

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Again, your emotional decision and the law do not need to be the same thing. But the law has to have a clear demarkation point and birth works quite well for that purpose.

Not so much as you think. You failed to acknowledge my hypothetical question to Jester, which I feel answered your own question already. We have this technology now, but therr are laws against is, however those laws are slowly eroding. Will you still stick by your "birth"ing stance when we start cloning ourselves for organs, or testing non-born humans with new drugs? You may scoff at the notion as fancy, but I disagree: we will see it in our lifetimes.