10-29-2012, 08:38 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2012, 04:21 AM by FireIceTalon.)
(10-29-2012, 08:10 PM)shoju Wrote:(10-29-2012, 08:03 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote: Jester beat me to it, but indeed, Juche is very reactionary, and has nothing to do with Marxism in the least bit. More so, this is nothing more than a troll post and reaction to the thread I made about the cops shooting the teenager. Also, N. Korea is a State Capitalist society, so you can actually chock this tragedy up as another for capitalism. Good try though.
Your little beloved capitalist system has killed far more people than any self-proclaimed communist has, and continues to do so just from the fact that 30,000 people starve to death per day. And thats just from starvation - that doesn't include other social consequences of the system such as lack of medical care, poverty and crime, and all the imperialist wars raged by the capitalists. Fuck outta here man.
While I understand where you are coming from, I think it's pretty ridiculous to claim that the 30,000 people who starve to death each day in the world is somehow solely the fault of capitalism, and not the other tyrants and monsters who contribute to the failed social structures that they live in. Capitalism may not be your cup of tea, but you are going to have to do some serious mental gymnastics to prove that it is the direct reason for those deaths.
Comrade, capitalism or class antagonist societies in general, are the root cause of these problems. It isn't obvious on a surface level of course. Failed institutions and tyrants are bad, but they are also a reflection and result of the system itself. These things exist because CLASSES exist. I cannot think of a single point in the history of class society where there wasn't a centralized State of some sort. The bottomline is, most of the world is capitalist, there is great demand in both the first world and third world for food, shelter, clothing, medical care, and so forth. And capitalism isn't delivering - because it can't. It's not a humanitarian system designed to provide these things for people based on their needs, its a system designed to maximize the profits of a few, regardless of the consequences. You can reform laws all you want, and replace bad institutions with more institutions, and these problems will not go away - as long as class society exists, there will be no fundamental change. The third world in particular is the way it is because of capitalism - they were colonized, exploited, and continue to be drained of their resources to support our consumerist way of life and living standard here in the first world.
It isn't even that capitalism isn't my cup of tea - that would be injecting morality into it (though I am a humanitarian and consider it to be a inhumane system, but that is beside the point). It is simply a failed system that is propped up by State power, lies and propaganda, regardless if its the totalitarian bureaucracy of N. Korea, the social democracies of western Europe, or the free market capitalism of the USA. It is not a legitimate system that exists on its own merits. Now, these systems do have different degrees of State control, but they have States nonetheless. And where there are nation states and governments, there is class society. I have my own ethics and guidelines that I use to govern myself with, and decipher between right and wrong, but I try to keep this stuff out a scientific analysis of economic and social systems. But if you want to look at it from a moral or emotional level, I probably dislike and disapprove of N. Korea's society more than Ashock does - but he wants to politicize it for his own anti-communist purposes (though N.Korea has nothing to do with communism or Marxism), whereas I view it as just another horrid, and anti-human society, and yet another good example of why class societies need to be put in the dust bin of history.
Contrary to what people like Ashock and most anti-communists want you to believe, the goal of Marxists or any other radical leftist type in general is not to control you with a big government, stick you in a gulag if you even think about dissent, and make everyone equally poor and miserable. This is complete 'Cold War' rhetoric and nonsense, which sadly has been very effective in maintaining such misconceptions. Our goal is quite the opposite in fact - to ELIMINATE the State entirely - so that people can live more freely and happily, and be treated as equals regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation, etc. Self-determination is the key here. We don't claim that communism will be perfect - just much better than what we have right now. Moreover, it will exist on its own merits, or it will cease to be so. But we realize why the State exists to begin with: because classes do. Thus class society must go, if the State is to be eliminated.
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"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)
"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)