Patching 1.0.2c -- potentially nerfed mob damage

[Lissa]

Yes, I remember how static field worked in 1.0 D2, and yes, it was horribly broken. The point I'm making is that QA process for Blizzard is worse now than it was in the past. Look at it this way, we're 1 month into the game and they've already release 3 bug fix patches, broken other aspects with said patches, and generally did a slap fix for aspects of the game that both you and I have seen Quark. Even at it's worst, D2/LoD had better QA than what we're seeing here in D3 (and other games by Blizzard), glaring issues are slipping past QA here (like the Asian dupe bug). So yes, Blizzard's QA process has gotten worse (even though it was bad back in 2000 to 2003).

You're using the word "dupe" while attempting to convince us that Blizzard had excellent QA in D2 and LOD. This does not compute.

Lissa, the fact that they're patching things quickly is a *good* sign, showing that they care about the game. Just take the static field brokenness as one example among hundreds -- they didn't balance static field until the expansion came out! My static field/frozen orb sorceress was able to kill the final boss in the final difficulty, who dropped the best loot in the game, in 3 seconds without any fear of death in hardcore played over a 56k modem while using a standard set of equipment and an easily testable skillset -- and was able to do it for more than a year. When someone showed a video showing how they could frozen and stun lock Inferno Diablo in D3 using an obscure combination of skills and equipment, it was fixed in a matter of days. That's progress, not a degeneration.

Really Mongo? You tell everyone else to pull off their nostaliga glasses and yet you put on a pair of your own? Static Field was capped at 25% fairly early on (by 1.03, but I seem to remember 1.01), LoD was 1.08/1.09 and 1.03 wasn't more than two to three months after D2 came out (and I think it was earlier than that). 1.08/1.09 changed SF so that it capped out at 33% and 50% in Nightmare and Hell, but SF was capped after a point and Hell Diablo had enough health, even in D2, that you couldn't kill him with just SFing and then FOing in a short amount of time once Blizzard capped SF's maximum health it could take off.

If you've played a Blizzard game and your take on it is that the QA is bad, I find the idea that you've played another company's game as well as quite suspect. I also seriously question the idea that Blizzard's gotten worse over time.

Limiting yourself to just the power level of the game ... no, not even close. D2 was not under such a microscope because it was a decidedly easier game. Anything was viable not because it was good, but because you didn't need good. Even with that, don't you remember Static Field? It trivialized the game and had a bugged formula for its radius to boot. That is not the only example, simply the most egregious one. Life Steal % was out of whack, so what was their eventual fix? They made it not work on some monsters. Well that's great, I'll just ignore those monsters now.

Yes, I remember how static field worked in 1.0 D2, and yes, it was horribly broken. The point I'm making is that QA process for Blizzard is worse now than it was in the past. Look at it this way, we're 1 month into the game and they've already release 3 bug fix patches, broken other aspects with said patches, and generally did a slap fix for aspects of the game that both you and I have seen Quark. Even at it's worst, D2/LoD had better QA than what we're seeing here in D3 (and other games by Blizzard), glaring issues are slipping past QA here (like the Asian dupe bug). So yes, Blizzard's QA process has gotten worse (even though it was bad back in 2000 to 2003).

Right. Sure. Where are you are getting what you are smoking? D2 QA was so bad that the game was essentially unplayable on Battle.net the first month. You say they have done 3 patches so far on D3. But do you remember all the server side fixes that went into D2? There were times that the game on Battle.net and the game on a LAN were essentially different games because we had to wait weeks for them to bundle the 3, 4, or 5 serve side hotfixes together. They push patches out faster now. Even with that I remember one time when I hadn't been on Battle.net for 10 days with Diablo 2 and when I connected it downloaded 4 different patches. Your memory sucks dude.

SC2 was significantly more polished than SC or Wow on release and hasn't had as many patches either.

Remember the hunter survival tree until about 1.03 or so? You know the one that had skills that lowered DPS? Yeah that one. Yeah that was good quality control there. Yep, clearly better than what we have with D3.

Please don't try and change the goal posts again like you tend to do either. I am NOT saying that Blizzard has good QA, I am saying that it is no worse than it has been. I give them a pass for Inferno too, that wasn't really a QA issue that was a management decision that didn't work well, but Normal through hell was significantly better off than anything else they have had on release day with the exception of the very well done SC2 single player campaign. Most of the patch changes so far have honestly been pretty minor things to fix to. I don't expect them to catch everything and they catch more than most PC gaming companies. Of course they are also willing to significantly change their games via patches as well which other companies tend not to do. That should not be confused with poor QA that, again is a management decision to not simply say, "This is the game, polish it and balance it, no new ideas allowed from here on out." Which is something I have to say to users when I'm developing a new app for them. This is the feature set we are doing, test it work with it, if it doesn't work as we agreed upon we will fix it before going to production. If you want a different feature, note it and we will evaluate it for a future request. Blizzard doesn't operate that way which gives them some bonuses but also comes with drawbacks.

Looking forward to your response because I could use another good chuckle and I sure watching you try and change the argument from what you initially posed, or dance around things because you can't admit you simply weren't remembering things correctly should be pretty entertaining.

This is also directed at Mongo's post above.

Likewise, and I've been looking for the post Bolty made, D3's framework has been finished for over a year and half as Blizzard was letting people play in Act 3 and Act 4 at various tech conventions back in late 2010. Blizzard had a year and half to sit down and QA a lot of the game as they worked out various potential blocks (such as the one South Korea had setup stating that D3 was gambling and that was against either the law or some societal norm in South Korea and was delayed until Blizzard worked that out with the South Korean government). The beta of Act 1 ran for over 9 months before it was finally released (and yes, there were some changes made, but not much). Blizzard had a lot more time with D3 to QA it inhouse before release then they ever did with D2 (remember, D2 came out 3 years after D1 where as D3 came out 11 years since LoD and they announced D3 in 2008 and the graphics in game show it's probably using technology from 2007 through 2009).

So, here we have a game that they've basically had finished for a year and half where they could QA in all this time and yet a bunch of things slip through. Does that really sound like their QA is on the ball compared to where they've had shorter QA times for their other games (even including D2)?

Yes, I remember how static field worked in 1.0 D2, and yes, it was horribly broken. The point I'm making is that QA process for Blizzard is worse now than it was in the past.

Paradoxical statements. You'll never admit to being wrong, of course, and you're entitled to your opinion - but you're flat out wrong. D3 is a far, far more polished game at release than D2 was at any point up through 1.09. I know Blizzard bashing is cool and all, but really this is just getting utterly silly. Why don't you go troll the Blizzard forums where your statements actually belong?

Didn't she say some months ago that Needler is a better bow than Massive Bow of Swiftness in D1??? ROFL.

And non sequistor moment, didn't you also say that playing BNW or BNR was impossible? I'll leave you with that.