In Time

[FireIceTalon]

^^Some interesting points made there, but I dont necessarily agree with them. The first point is about everyone being named after watches could be coincidental, but I get the feeling it is a metaphor that represents how influential our capitalistic society is: people are being named after name brands now.

No, I don't think it is a coincidence. Bulova and Timex would be dead giveaways.

I very much disagree with point #2. We do NOT get the system we want. We get the system that the BOURGEOIS wants, and then we are manipulated by various forms of idealism to believe that is what we want.

Or, better rephrased, we don't get the system YOU want, we get the system WE want. Our system is predicated on the idea that everyone becomes an owner. You start out at zero with youthful energy, and no experience, as a worker. Over time, you accumulate wealth, buying a home, saving for retirement, sending your children to college, and perhaps investing in companies you like. If you embrace a property-less system, and you are not an owner, then all you become is a renter, and you are one who can get kicked around by their landlord Uncle Sam. So, for me, property rights are a fundamental pillar of freedom.

You keep describing it like a zero sum equation. The occupy movement's disagreement is that yes, the pie(GDP) over the past 60 years is ten times larger, but for most people, their visible slice is about the same relative proportion, and a few lucky ones (the 1%), like Warren Buffet, or Bill Gates, have slices that are much larger than they can ever use. What never changes over time (in time), is that those who take advantage of (or cheat) the system are the ones who benefit most. I don't mind most of the people who took risks, and then earn their rewards. I do mind it when lobbyists, inside traders, and other gamesmen rig the system in their favor. So, it's not the Bankers, it's the evil Bankers. It's not the corporations, it's the evil corporations. The evil acts are what define them. Now, we can haggle over what "evil" means to us, and how we'd like to remove that "evil" from our system.

Point #3, exception - not rule.

Well, no. I think this one is the real crux of the movie. Philosophically, "Time is money", and what if that were true. If I gave you alone immortality without the ravages of aging, in our current system, you'd eventually be a very wise and rich person. You might struggle for your first 50 to 100 years, but after that, baring swindle, theft, societal collapse or war, your investments and holdings would keep growing. In our society, the majority of poor people are under 30.



I reflected this in an older post... in the story of Adam and Eve, they were faced with the temptation of immortality, and knowledge. Given infinite time, you can attain all knowledge. Given infinite knowledge, you can attain immortality.

And point number 4 is over analysis and really not accurate. The point is not to have everyone die by age 40, the point is that no should live forever while others have only a day.

Both views are wrong. The enemy is us. When we are young, we are poor and want to attain what the older people have without the struggle. We are both the rich, the middle, and the poor. This is why, baring feudalism, the class war goes nowhere. When you are 18 and living at home, your dad is your land lord. Love it or hate it, he's your dad.

I have issues with the Occupy Movement anyway, for they merely want reform to a broken system. They are not, for the most part, revolutionaries in the least bit. Truth be told, reformists aren't that much better than reactionaries (Tea Party), in the view of people who truly want FUNDAMENTAL change.

The bankers arent necessarily evil, it is capitalism that is evil. The material conditions of any society dictate the nature of people and how they act. Capitalism is a system that promotes profits above humanity, thus the nature of people for the most part is greedy and selfish. We are NOT greedy or selfish by nature. There is no such thing as human nature, besides our will to survive and reproduce, nothing more. Everything else is determined by our environment, economic and material conditions, and culture. You dont change human nature (something that doesnt exist) to change society, you change SOCIETY to change the nature of people and their actions. Terms like good and evil are forms of idealism, and have no relevance to materialism. Idealism is a tool used by the ruling class and reactionaries to oppress the lower class by keeping them passive.