06-14-2011, 11:21 PM
Hi,
Given that he lived in such a period, that's no great pronouncement. More like an intelligent fish admitting the existence of water.
Right. But don't the people control the means of production right now? The smart people, the driven people, those who are willing to invest their time and money instead of spending the first watching TV and the second buying beer will trade what they have to those who are fools for a larger share of control.
If, tomorrow morning we were to wake up to a Marxist Utopia where everything (except human nature) was just as Marx wanted and predicted, by tomorrow evening there would be haves and have nots. It doesn't take deep philosophical thinking. A simple little book like Animal Farm is enough to show that the pigs will always end up ahead. And that philosophers who misunderstand human nature are jackasses.
Right. And the rapture will happen any day now. And 12/12/12 will be the last page we'll ever need in our calenders.
So, your argument is that a theoretical system which has never existed is better than any and all the systems that have actually existed. And the reason every example of an attempt at implementing your perfect theoretical system failed was that it couldn't be your system, since they weren't perfect since they failed. And you see nothing wrong with that (lack of) reasoning?
Jester was right -- no true Scotsman indeed.
--Pete
(06-14-2011, 09:33 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote: ... he said an era of capitalism is NEEDED ...
Given that he lived in such a period, that's no great pronouncement. More like an intelligent fish admitting the existence of water.
(06-14-2011, 09:33 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote: ... utopian communism in which then the people (NOT the state), control the means of production.
Right. But don't the people control the means of production right now? The smart people, the driven people, those who are willing to invest their time and money instead of spending the first watching TV and the second buying beer will trade what they have to those who are fools for a larger share of control.
If, tomorrow morning we were to wake up to a Marxist Utopia where everything (except human nature) was just as Marx wanted and predicted, by tomorrow evening there would be haves and have nots. It doesn't take deep philosophical thinking. A simple little book like Animal Farm is enough to show that the pigs will always end up ahead. And that philosophers who misunderstand human nature are jackasses.
(06-14-2011, 09:33 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote: ... its impossible to say when capitalism will turn into socialism and then communism.
Right. And the rapture will happen any day now. And 12/12/12 will be the last page we'll ever need in our calenders.
So, your argument is that a theoretical system which has never existed is better than any and all the systems that have actually existed. And the reason every example of an attempt at implementing your perfect theoretical system failed was that it couldn't be your system, since they weren't perfect since they failed. And you see nothing wrong with that (lack of) reasoning?
Jester was right -- no true Scotsman indeed.
--Pete
How big was the aquarium in Noah's ark?