Instance Design in Wrath

[Sir_Die_alot]

Kael and Vashj come at the end of instances, not the beginning. Hydross started crazy, but got nerfed pretty quick. Lurker was easy, and so was Tidewalker. Leotheras and Karathress were probably in the middle somewhere. Alar was moderate, and the other two were easy. Most of the bosses in those two instances weren´t anywhere near up to the level of the current Hard bosses in Ulduar - except the end boss challenges.

Kael and Vashj are about as many bosses into progression as middle ulduar. It wasn't until this post I realized that. I think we are both probably a bit spoiled by WOTLK bosses that die the first night they are tried.

Mags was way overtuned, and Blizzard has said as much. Gruul wasn´t, though. I note you didn´t even bother mentioning Hyjal and BT, neither of whch stopped the elite guilds for more than a few weeks, except for Archimonde. Illidan was easy enough they actually had to buff him. Both those instances started to drop like rocks once Blizzard pulled out the Vashj/Kael requirement.

Mags was overtuned. So are some hardmodes but most people don't complain about it because they are not required to progress. The only one I can think of that has been nerfed rather than "fixed" is mimron.

Razorgore and Vael were pretty crazy, but that´s going back a ways. And once you got the gear, even Vael wasn´t that bad. The entirety of MC wasn´t very tough, and the bosses between Vael and Chrommagus were pretty easy, or at least not up to the level of the modern Hard Mode. (Okay, Firemaw was finicky. But not really brutal.)

Vael wasn't bad after that time because people had learned to do him and yes gear made the fight shorter. I'm not sure how that is different from a current hard mode. In fact it sounds exactly like them. :P

Guilds I´ve raided with (conveniently, the ones here, KotD and Lurkers) brought down those earlier instances, although usually quite late in the patch cycle. These same guilds are getting seriously pounded on modern Hard Modes.

-Jester

I'm sure those guilds could do most of the hard modes in ulduar but choose not to put in the effort because its not required. The mechanics of the hard modes are not more extreme than things they have accomplished before. Case in point the hard pre wotlk bosses I listed. How long did the guilds you raided with spend on those bosses?:)