07-01-2003, 08:27 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2003, 08:37 PM by Occhidiangela.)
I don't believe you understand how resiliant a human being is, or can be. You sell short everyone of these teens, whose follow on life we don't appear to have much knowledge of, with your over emotional response to what is absolutely a wrong treatment of them.
Bun-buns post is an excellent distillation of all of the reasons why it is wrong to treat teens that way, but you once again fall into the cult of victimhood if you believe that going through that sort of hell is a fate worst than death. If you'd rather die, that is YOUR weakness of character showing up, your negative attitude. Read Frankel's book. Man's Search For Meaning. A death camp survivor, he presents a compelling case for how darned hard a nut a person is, or can be, to crack.
Warlocke, from your own experience, from what you shared with us, you fought your way through some seriously nasty crap. You can either take the attitude that "I am scarred forever because my life was imperfectly orchestrated" or you can take on an attitude like that of Epictitus: "You can't take my self away from me. You screwed with me, and look at me, pal, I am still standing!"
So yes, your words are hyperbole, and overstatement.
EDIT: Tai, "I'll never get over it" are the words of a loser. You can get over most anything if you put your mind to it. Consider the fate of a large number of our own PoW's, in Bataan, in Viet Nam, who managed to get on with their lives after spending three, four and five years in Hell.
Did everyone 'get over it' perfectly? No, saying that would be an overstatement as well. Do the "Graduates" of these "programming" schools have yet another challenge in their later lives? Will they feel a sense of loss at having not had the "same growing up experience" as "everyone else?" Yeah, but funnily enough, people get that whisps of that feeling based on a hundred factors. One can choose to feel sorry for one's self, or one can get on with the life at hand.
/End Edit
To follow up on the horrid criminal thought, maybe reprogramming is exactly what they need. I doubt it, but if you look at the recitivism in America, who knows? The problem is, this enforced programming approach has been shown time and again to be significantly flawed insofar as long term beneficial impact on the individual, if there ever was such an intention.
As I see it, the intention is to benifit some third party, not the individual.
I will admit that I share your dismay at any of this being legal, and I wonder why the teens have to be "kidnapped," rather than accompanied by their parents to Jamaica when they "enroll" at these "school."
The lack of any sort of educational training of the Mr Kay in charge in Jamaica is evidence enough that this is wrong.
Bun-buns post is an excellent distillation of all of the reasons why it is wrong to treat teens that way, but you once again fall into the cult of victimhood if you believe that going through that sort of hell is a fate worst than death. If you'd rather die, that is YOUR weakness of character showing up, your negative attitude. Read Frankel's book. Man's Search For Meaning. A death camp survivor, he presents a compelling case for how darned hard a nut a person is, or can be, to crack.
Warlocke, from your own experience, from what you shared with us, you fought your way through some seriously nasty crap. You can either take the attitude that "I am scarred forever because my life was imperfectly orchestrated" or you can take on an attitude like that of Epictitus: "You can't take my self away from me. You screwed with me, and look at me, pal, I am still standing!"
So yes, your words are hyperbole, and overstatement.
EDIT: Tai, "I'll never get over it" are the words of a loser. You can get over most anything if you put your mind to it. Consider the fate of a large number of our own PoW's, in Bataan, in Viet Nam, who managed to get on with their lives after spending three, four and five years in Hell.
Did everyone 'get over it' perfectly? No, saying that would be an overstatement as well. Do the "Graduates" of these "programming" schools have yet another challenge in their later lives? Will they feel a sense of loss at having not had the "same growing up experience" as "everyone else?" Yeah, but funnily enough, people get that whisps of that feeling based on a hundred factors. One can choose to feel sorry for one's self, or one can get on with the life at hand.
/End Edit
To follow up on the horrid criminal thought, maybe reprogramming is exactly what they need. I doubt it, but if you look at the recitivism in America, who knows? The problem is, this enforced programming approach has been shown time and again to be significantly flawed insofar as long term beneficial impact on the individual, if there ever was such an intention.
As I see it, the intention is to benifit some third party, not the individual.
I will admit that I share your dismay at any of this being legal, and I wonder why the teens have to be "kidnapped," rather than accompanied by their parents to Jamaica when they "enroll" at these "school."
The lack of any sort of educational training of the Mr Kay in charge in Jamaica is evidence enough that this is wrong.
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete