Brainwashing Propaganda, or Morality Lesson?

[Jester]

What I gather from what you are saying then is that the war ended a long time ago and the US has an extended police force there now.

If you gathered that from what I'm saying, then there must be a disconnect on either what I said, or what you heard.

There is an army the size of Napoleon's sitting in a country, engaged in killing-and-being-killed on a regular basis in a foreign country. That's not "police". That's "a war". However, if the US were to both dramatically reduce it's troop levels, and move out of direct combat operations, then things would be different. Maybe not ideal, but certainly more to my liking than what's currently going on.

Even if you measure it by the yard stick of "combat operations", then we were done in June 2008 (as announced by Al Maliki).

And you lost 215 soldiers since then in unfortunate non-combat accidents? That's more than in the initial invasion.

Do you believe then the extended police force might draw down by 2011, and it might draw down to perhaps German levels (~50,000). Or, do you think it might draw down to British or Italian levels of about 10,000? Balkans (1200)? Korean (25,000)? Japan (30,000)?

The plan is to draw down to somewhere around those levels by 2010. How far the eventual number will be I can't guess, I'd wager over 10,000, but under 50,000. But even if you kept (say) 30,000 troops there, that would still be an 80% withdrawal.

However, I'd like to see the US bring its troops back from most of the places they're stationed in the world. There isn't any good reason, to my mind, for the US to still be camped out in Germany. Korea, maybe.

After all the campaign rhetoric and posturing is over, what is clear to me are; 1) The war ended soon after the tanks drove into Baghdad, but a cadre of people who are anti-military frame the debate as if Saddam's phoenix will rise from the ashes, or that the Iraqi people will suddenly radicalize simultaneously and attempt to forcibly eject US forces.

Have you been watching the same war I have? The one where the about 97% of US deaths (about 4k) happened after the fall of Saddam? The Iraqi people, or at least pretty large segments of them, have been trying to "forcibly eject" the US for about six years now. What do you think all those car bombs are? What Sadr City is, and why they keep fighting over it?

2) The question of the our role in continuing to police the world, which is extremely expensive, and usually contrary to US domestic interests, is never on the table for debate.

It should be. But, then, some of us actually opposed this silly war. Others, as I recall, didn't.

3) There is no "Change" and there is no "Hope" of a change in the US policy of policing the planet.

Aha, I see what you did there. Turning the Obama slogan around, to subtly imply that he's just like Bush. Except that he didn't start the Iraq war, and opposed Bush when he did. We'll see what happens when the next war opportunity comes around, but I know I sleep more soundly knowing it's Obama, and not Bush, calling the shots (nominally, not that Bush ever really called the shots.) I know the vast majority of the world of the world agrees.

-Jester