ACORN

[Chesspiece_face]

I'm sorry, but just how do people who have to be rounded up and herded like cows "become a part of the voting populace"? Oh, they can cast a vote, alright, but shouldn't a voter be a little more? Like at least aware of the issues? Like motivated enough to take five minutes to register when renewing a driver's license? Do we really want large numbers of apathetic and ignorant people voting the way they are paid to vote, or the way that their demagogue of choice tells them to vote?

Now, if even a sizable minority of the people ACORN recruits are concerned, knowledgeable, citizens who couldn't or didn't register because of external restrictions, then ACORN is doing some good (the amount of good, in my opinion, is measured by the ratio of "good" voters to "bad" voters registered, where by 'good' and 'bad' I mean degree of civic responsibility accepted by the individuals). But if nearly all the ACORN recruits are civically apathetic sheep, then I fail to see how ACORN is aiding the democratic part of the republican process of our government. In signal terms, they are adding noise to the channel, causing the little signal that exists to be further drowned.

Maybe we should have a test which can decern who is a "good" voter or a "bad" voter that way we can weed out all the people who shouldn't be part of our democracy. <_<

Bad analogy. Voting is a civic right which each individual has the right to participate in or abstain from. Going to trial is usually not an option (plea bargains, etc,. aside). As an aside to this aside, do you believe that there can be a perfect system? Because, if not, then there *will* be innocent people going to jail and guilty people being turned loose. So, it is not the simple 'either-or' choice you present. How many guilty people are you willing to set free for each innocent convicted? And how many of the future victims of these criminals are you willing to console for their loss of property, dignity, or life because of your philosophy. Many in this country feel as do you, and one of the highest crime rates in the world is the price we pay.

The analogy is that in each case there is an issue of punishing an individual whom isn't deserving of punishment as well as an issue of giving a person of ill-intent the possibility of acting on their intent. In the second case guilt, whether punished or not, is soley attributed to the criminal individual whereas in the first case guilt is attributed to the system and all who aquiesce or support the system.

I agree, but this is a non sequitor. Perhaps I missed it, but I didn't see where ACORN was addressing this. What I've seen is ACORN registering people who couldn't be troubled to register themselves. Not fighting for people who are being denied their rights, but simply people who didn't care to exercise them. I'm not even sure how ACORN would go about doing this, since then it becomes a matter of law. The organization I do see addressing this problem is the ACLU, and in this case, I cheer them (about two thirds of the time, I cheer the ACLU and in the other third I curse them -- but that's what makes them a good watch dog.)

--Pete

Again, not speaking for ACORN but for myself and my impressions, but ACORN's place should be to address the ignorance of the populace through information. The first step in the information process should be letting people know how they can involve themselves and how easy it is. I don't know ACORN's policies but this should be politically neutral and is valuable for democrats, republicans, conservatives, or liberals. ACORN does seem to lean liberal so i don't know if they would just ignore a republican who wished to register with them. If their political leanings push them to focus their efforts in urban or high population areas though that is just an issue of statistics. And hell, if you want to follow the argument to the theoretical conclusion the reason that voter fraud is perpetrated with the ease it is can partially be attributed to the fact that we have a relatively low turn out creating a large gap in which fraud can thrive. If we were able to hit that hypothetical spot where 100% of the eligible voters showed up it would be very easy to detect fraud. 2000 eligible voters but we got 2300 votes? hmmmm.... This is already noticable in areas which have very high turn out.

Edit:

For the reason I already gave, no such evidence will appear. There will be cases of discovered voter fraud as there is bound to be anytime a nation of 300 plus million votes. But there will never be evidence leading back to ACORN or any such organization. That proves nothing, either way.

I haven't totally written off the chance that mickey mouse actually shows up to vote. who knows?