06-21-2003, 07:14 AM
... back up.
My country has decided. It has its own right to do so, well and good.
Your country has not. It does, however, have a tradition of upholding marriages under Canadian law as if it were your own. Well and good also.
Your country has to decide whether it wants to use this tradition to allow homosexual marriages (in limited form, perhaps as a door to further reform) within its own borders.
Your country has a system for creating laws, and a system for interpreting them. One or the other must apply to this situation. Which one, I really don't care, since it's not my country. I haven't demanded you change immediately, or that the processes you choose be bypassed.
All I said was that there are some laws that increase liberty, and some laws that do not. This is one of that increases it. Your "Iranian dress code" example was one which decreases it. Maybe your Commonly Held Assumptions, or your F**king Reality doesn't like this particular brand of liberty, I don't know. If it clashes, you might have some problems getting it through. That don't confront me. As you point out, it's your country.
The mechanics are yours to deal with, as a citizen of the USA. The ideals, as a human being, are fair game for me and my free speech. The mechanics (along with the limitations of living 230 years ago) explain most of the problems getting liberty up and running your country had (and still has). The ideals are more or less the same they were back then, give or take a nuance or two. People should be allowed to do stuff that doesn't harm others, especially where their private lives are concerned. Laws should include all those who can reasonably be included.
As for pot... like I said. It really doesn't matter what we want. It matters what we think is just. Democracy is not a mechanism for imposing our prejudices on other people, although it can be used that way if we fail in our responsibility as citizens. I don't want to smoke pot (or marry a man, or any number of things) but I think as a just society we must allow these things.
Jester
My country has decided. It has its own right to do so, well and good.
Your country has not. It does, however, have a tradition of upholding marriages under Canadian law as if it were your own. Well and good also.
Your country has to decide whether it wants to use this tradition to allow homosexual marriages (in limited form, perhaps as a door to further reform) within its own borders.
Your country has a system for creating laws, and a system for interpreting them. One or the other must apply to this situation. Which one, I really don't care, since it's not my country. I haven't demanded you change immediately, or that the processes you choose be bypassed.
All I said was that there are some laws that increase liberty, and some laws that do not. This is one of that increases it. Your "Iranian dress code" example was one which decreases it. Maybe your Commonly Held Assumptions, or your F**king Reality doesn't like this particular brand of liberty, I don't know. If it clashes, you might have some problems getting it through. That don't confront me. As you point out, it's your country.
The mechanics are yours to deal with, as a citizen of the USA. The ideals, as a human being, are fair game for me and my free speech. The mechanics (along with the limitations of living 230 years ago) explain most of the problems getting liberty up and running your country had (and still has). The ideals are more or less the same they were back then, give or take a nuance or two. People should be allowed to do stuff that doesn't harm others, especially where their private lives are concerned. Laws should include all those who can reasonably be included.
As for pot... like I said. It really doesn't matter what we want. It matters what we think is just. Democracy is not a mechanism for imposing our prejudices on other people, although it can be used that way if we fail in our responsibility as citizens. I don't want to smoke pot (or marry a man, or any number of things) but I think as a just society we must allow these things.
Jester