Yet another religious cult raided
#51
Quote:Sorry, not buying into that. This is a secular state, by the plan and will of the founders. They did not rely on a deity to guarantee liberty; they fought a revolution and placed specific institutional bounds on the power of the successor government with an eye to actively circumscribing the behaviors they found odious. In no way were the founders so passive.
In the preamble of the Declaration of Independence, the language is fairly expository on how they explained to King George that he has been usurped by a higher power. "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal (egalitarian - surf and king are equal in Gods eyes) and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights (meaning rights bestowed upon man by God, not by men) and that among these are the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (which was "property", or meaning prosperity but changed to be less specific on what makes one happy I guess.) This set up the discussion of slavery(being that they just declared that all men are equal in Gods eyes), even at the beginnings of the federation of States, but was tabled since it was such a controversial topic.
Quote:I was under the distinct impression you objected to the events at the FLDS compound, yet the government agencies were working to enforce the laws of the land.
I'm not against the government acting in response to evidence of a crime, or even with reasonable suspicion investigating an individual. In this case, they did investigate and found out that the person who was fingered was the wrong person, and were unable to find the woman who reported the alleged abuse. Now 416 children have been forcibly removed from their parents by authorities, who are probably grilling them about their lifestyle. I mean, imagine that this was a Catholic Archdiocese in Boston where there were allegations that the Priest was fondling the little boys and the government swooped in an rounded up all the children of the parents belonging to that church. It's outrageous behavior, and excessive for the state to treat all the parents as abusers, or that the people are too afraid, "brain washed", or subjugated to resist or escape.
Quote:So, since the people in Yearning For Zion were restrained by fear and ignorance, what would you see as the government's role in upholding their rights?
Being "restrained by ignorance" is not something the state will solve. Being restrained by fear of harm, threat, from abuse is something the state gets involved in. If there are clear allegations by someone willing to stand up and substantiate the claim then the state has a case, otherwise it is unsubstantiated.
”There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.

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Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-14-2008, 01:56 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Quark - 04-14-2008, 02:14 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-14-2008, 05:26 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Quark - 04-14-2008, 07:52 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-14-2008, 08:56 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-14-2008, 08:59 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Obi2Kenobi - 04-14-2008, 09:20 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Quark - 04-14-2008, 10:01 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Quark - 04-14-2008, 11:12 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-15-2008, 06:33 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-15-2008, 06:35 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Quark - 04-15-2008, 11:08 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Quark - 04-15-2008, 11:16 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-15-2008, 02:27 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-15-2008, 02:52 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-15-2008, 02:58 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Delc - 04-15-2008, 04:07 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-15-2008, 04:28 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-15-2008, 05:02 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-15-2008, 05:40 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-15-2008, 06:09 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-15-2008, 06:35 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-15-2008, 07:00 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by TheDragoon - 04-15-2008, 07:25 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-15-2008, 07:29 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-15-2008, 07:36 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-15-2008, 07:51 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-15-2008, 07:52 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-15-2008, 08:05 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-15-2008, 08:08 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-15-2008, 08:12 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-15-2008, 08:13 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-15-2008, 08:19 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-15-2008, 08:31 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-15-2008, 08:37 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-15-2008, 08:49 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-15-2008, 08:51 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-15-2008, 09:26 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-15-2008, 09:44 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-15-2008, 09:52 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-15-2008, 09:53 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-15-2008, 09:55 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-15-2008, 10:14 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-15-2008, 10:19 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by tmsti - 04-15-2008, 11:11 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-15-2008, 11:22 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-15-2008, 11:36 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-16-2008, 04:56 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-16-2008, 05:34 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-16-2008, 06:31 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-16-2008, 07:09 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-16-2008, 08:04 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-16-2008, 01:55 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-16-2008, 01:58 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-16-2008, 02:30 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-16-2008, 06:03 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-16-2008, 10:05 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-16-2008, 10:33 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-16-2008, 10:44 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-16-2008, 11:01 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-17-2008, 04:06 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-17-2008, 06:46 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Vandiablo - 04-17-2008, 08:33 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-17-2008, 09:06 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-17-2008, 01:13 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-17-2008, 03:05 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-17-2008, 06:02 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-17-2008, 07:45 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-17-2008, 08:28 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-17-2008, 08:43 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-17-2008, 09:03 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-17-2008, 09:17 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-17-2008, 09:19 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-17-2008, 09:33 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-17-2008, 09:51 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-17-2008, 09:55 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-17-2008, 09:56 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-17-2008, 10:11 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-17-2008, 10:29 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-17-2008, 11:05 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-17-2008, 11:19 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-18-2008, 12:16 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-18-2008, 01:34 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Quark - 04-18-2008, 03:01 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-18-2008, 03:24 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-18-2008, 04:34 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Griselda - 04-18-2008, 05:09 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-18-2008, 05:10 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-18-2008, 07:01 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-18-2008, 07:08 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Quark - 04-18-2008, 12:31 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-18-2008, 02:39 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-18-2008, 06:43 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-18-2008, 06:45 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-18-2008, 06:59 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Mordekhuul - 04-18-2008, 07:57 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-18-2008, 08:07 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-18-2008, 10:03 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-18-2008, 10:36 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-18-2008, 11:06 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-19-2008, 12:42 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-19-2008, 01:02 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-19-2008, 01:32 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-19-2008, 01:44 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-19-2008, 01:59 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-19-2008, 03:16 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-19-2008, 03:29 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-19-2008, 03:48 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-19-2008, 04:12 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bun-Bun - 04-19-2008, 05:43 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 04-19-2008, 06:19 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Griselda - 04-19-2008, 01:54 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-19-2008, 03:09 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Zippyy - 04-19-2008, 03:30 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-19-2008, 03:32 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-19-2008, 03:40 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-20-2008, 10:56 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Quark - 04-20-2008, 03:58 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Griselda - 04-20-2008, 04:57 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-20-2008, 05:48 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-20-2008, 09:50 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Vandiablo - 04-21-2008, 05:27 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Vandiablo - 04-21-2008, 05:30 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Tal - 04-21-2008, 04:38 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-21-2008, 05:19 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-21-2008, 05:26 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-21-2008, 05:34 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Bolty - 04-21-2008, 06:40 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-21-2008, 08:50 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-21-2008, 08:56 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-21-2008, 09:10 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-21-2008, 10:24 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Vandiablo - 04-22-2008, 05:44 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-22-2008, 06:30 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-22-2008, 02:16 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-22-2008, 02:28 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-22-2008, 02:36 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Vandiablo - 04-24-2008, 05:12 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Vandiablo - 04-26-2008, 06:10 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by --Pete - 04-27-2008, 03:32 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Vandiablo - 04-27-2008, 04:38 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Vandiablo - 04-27-2008, 05:06 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by --Pete - 04-27-2008, 08:08 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Vandiablo - 04-27-2008, 08:29 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jim - 04-28-2008, 10:46 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-29-2008, 04:52 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jim - 04-29-2008, 01:04 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-29-2008, 01:44 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by --Pete - 04-29-2008, 04:14 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-29-2008, 10:38 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-30-2008, 12:25 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jim - 04-30-2008, 12:37 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-30-2008, 12:51 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-30-2008, 06:39 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jim - 04-30-2008, 07:25 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by --Pete - 04-30-2008, 03:14 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-30-2008, 03:23 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-30-2008, 05:57 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-30-2008, 06:18 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-30-2008, 06:39 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by --Pete - 04-30-2008, 06:58 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-30-2008, 07:40 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-30-2008, 09:46 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 04-30-2008, 09:50 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 04-30-2008, 11:30 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 05-01-2008, 06:36 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jim - 05-01-2008, 06:45 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jim - 05-01-2008, 11:48 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 05-02-2008, 02:28 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Vandiablo - 05-13-2008, 07:09 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 05-13-2008, 02:28 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Mavfin - 05-15-2008, 08:07 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 05-15-2008, 12:27 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 05-17-2008, 08:02 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 05-20-2008, 09:13 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jim - 05-25-2008, 11:54 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 05-25-2008, 03:23 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 05-28-2008, 10:30 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 05-29-2008, 09:38 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 05-29-2008, 06:35 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by --Pete - 05-29-2008, 07:05 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 05-29-2008, 07:30 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 05-29-2008, 09:02 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by --Pete - 05-29-2008, 09:26 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 05-30-2008, 01:50 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 05-30-2008, 01:58 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by --Pete - 05-30-2008, 02:31 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 05-30-2008, 04:47 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 05-30-2008, 07:10 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by eppie - 05-30-2008, 07:14 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 05-31-2008, 09:58 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 06-01-2008, 05:20 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by --Pete - 06-01-2008, 06:27 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 06-01-2008, 09:39 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 06-03-2008, 12:20 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 06-03-2008, 12:29 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by --Pete - 06-03-2008, 02:54 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 06-03-2008, 04:48 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 06-03-2008, 05:54 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Jester - 06-03-2008, 08:05 PM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Vandiablo - 06-04-2008, 03:00 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by Vandiablo - 06-04-2008, 04:46 AM
Yet another religious cult raided - by kandrathe - 06-04-2008, 05:04 AM

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