01-15-2008, 05:54 PM
Hm, I don't know if Gruul shatters really qualify. Even if six or so people get thrown together and all die, you can still go ahead and kill him with whoever's left. Unless I misinterpret the original post, this is about situations where a failure means a raid wipe or a massive, massive obstacle to success; losing people to Shatter is detrimental to the raid, sure, but it doesn't necessarily kill it, and you don't need to play super well to kill Gruul with 15 or so.
Guaranteed raid wipes are basically Teron ghost failure, Magtheridon cube click failure, and an Illidan tank failing to catch a Shear or an Illidan fire tank failing to move correctly and dying early. Obviously tank deaths are guaranteed raid wipes wherever they occur, but Illidan is a particular case where tank deaths generally don't involve healer responsibility. It is the tank's responsibility and no one else's to catch Shear, and the phase 2 tanks' responsibility to move correctly to avoid lethal fire combinations. At any rate, there is no recovery from these events, you're finished, try again.
Serious-consequence failures are dying on Archimonde (to whatever reason), moving during Flame Wreath, Cores on Vashj, Wrath on Solarian, failing to interrupt a Spirit Shock on Essence of Desire, and not moving in the right direction on Shahraz (if your port is on the raid). I distinguish these because you can still win after these events, it just becomes very, very difficult. The biggest case of this is Archimonde; Soul Charges are nasty, but I've beaten Archimonde on a run where there were three deaths (and, consequently, three Soul Charges). It's possible to outplay Soul Charge, although you have to get a little lucky. Similarly, you can play through Flame Wreath, Wrath of the Astromancer, even a missed Core, but it gets a lot harder.
I'd classify Gruul shatters in the category of stuff that you can do that will cause your own death but doesn't set back the raid more than the inconvenience of not having you around. There are so many of those that I can't list them all: dying to Aran's Arcane Explosion, standing in Fel Acid Breath, standing in Arcing Smash, staying in fire on Azgalor or Al'ar, not avoiding Spout, etc. In all those cases you are primarily responsible for your own survival, but your death doesn't impact anyone else except indirectly.
Guaranteed raid wipes are basically Teron ghost failure, Magtheridon cube click failure, and an Illidan tank failing to catch a Shear or an Illidan fire tank failing to move correctly and dying early. Obviously tank deaths are guaranteed raid wipes wherever they occur, but Illidan is a particular case where tank deaths generally don't involve healer responsibility. It is the tank's responsibility and no one else's to catch Shear, and the phase 2 tanks' responsibility to move correctly to avoid lethal fire combinations. At any rate, there is no recovery from these events, you're finished, try again.
Serious-consequence failures are dying on Archimonde (to whatever reason), moving during Flame Wreath, Cores on Vashj, Wrath on Solarian, failing to interrupt a Spirit Shock on Essence of Desire, and not moving in the right direction on Shahraz (if your port is on the raid). I distinguish these because you can still win after these events, it just becomes very, very difficult. The biggest case of this is Archimonde; Soul Charges are nasty, but I've beaten Archimonde on a run where there were three deaths (and, consequently, three Soul Charges). It's possible to outplay Soul Charge, although you have to get a little lucky. Similarly, you can play through Flame Wreath, Wrath of the Astromancer, even a missed Core, but it gets a lot harder.
I'd classify Gruul shatters in the category of stuff that you can do that will cause your own death but doesn't set back the raid more than the inconvenience of not having you around. There are so many of those that I can't list them all: dying to Aran's Arcane Explosion, standing in Fel Acid Breath, standing in Arcing Smash, staying in fire on Azgalor or Al'ar, not avoiding Spout, etc. In all those cases you are primarily responsible for your own survival, but your death doesn't impact anyone else except indirectly.