02-23-2007, 11:32 PM
Note: I think you have the wrong helm on the DW profile.
Not directly related to your question
Something I've wondered about just from a personal DPS standpoint is the "Bettle Stance Fury warrior". Where you do something like this build
I realize it doesn't offer a lot of utility to any group, you don't have stellar tanking and you don't have a lot in the way of group buffs other than imp battle shout. You are gimped in PvP without tactical mastery. But the idea is that you give up the extra damage you take and the extra AP and crit (from imp zerker stance) and stay in battle for the opportunistic attacks. Deep wounds likely won't add a lot of DPS because of the fact you'll keep overwriting it with other crits, but you will gain from impale. Not sure what the value of sweeping strikes would be though you could swap to a 2 hander for it then swap back, but I'm not looking at 2H fury that is yet another build. I went with mace spec for the extra rage but you could do axe or sword spec though the way the sword spec procs work I think you'd be better off with an axe or mace. The points in imp heroic strike are also floaters, but there isn't much else to put them in and it some lucky proc of mace spec and unbridled wrath could have you with extra rage that you might want to dump via HS.
I don't know how hard that would be to plug into your models but I've been curious about it.
Now onto your questions
As to your thoughts.
I'll start by saying that I'm still biased towards a 2 handed Conc, it feels right to me. :) But I'll try to not let that influence my thoughts. :)
We've got several warriors and druids and a few paladins coming up that want to tank and like to tank. We've got a few who are tanking now but might be happier changing to something else. Unless mitigation becomes a huge concern, and it might as we are starting to look at heroics and the early raid instances, you could still tank any five man just fine if we needed you too, regardless of spec. I don't think that will generally be needed though, so on the same page there.
So that being said I think I agree with you looking at something more focused than how your builds have been in the recent past. You do very well as the DPS warrior and sometimes off tank, but even then we tend to let the hunter pets take that off tank roll or put it on someone else and let you unleash your rage. There is also a pretty nice trinket in shadow labs that our group ended up DE'ing that is nice for classes that don't have good ways to deal with extra aggro. Something that you might consider.
I think all this rules out the fury/prot line as well. You can do better pure DPS with another spec and you aren't needed to tank. You certainly can if you want to and we'd embrace it if you did, but if you are looking for more DPS I don't think you need to worry about the more hybrid build, the biggest reason would be for PvP as I can see some of that starting up again and you may want that prot PvP utility. But on the PvE side I think you are better with something else.
So again that is back to fury vs arms. As you mentioned, and I agree with, the arms build would be better for the smaller group PvP and arena stuff of the 2 builds. Especially if we can do the 2 pally, 1 warrior 3 man team, I've always pictured that with a prot pally, ret pally, and arms warrior. It offers more to the raids as well. In the 5 mans we can't always say you will have a shaman, but in the raids if you are arms spec, you will get a shaman in your group and can expect windfury to be there. You will very likely be in battle a lot of the time and the imp T-clap will be there as well as the friendlier longer lasting improved shouts. But I'm in agreement on the utility to the group. As fury you are offering more damage (and as mentioned the upside could be more than you show) but you aren't offering a lot of other utility that the arms build also doesn't offer. Slightly stronger offtank but not as much group DPS boosters and as mentioned I don't think the off tanking is really going to be heavily needed. I'm starting to think that paladins are going to be the ultimate off tanks with the ability to keep a mob or 2 occupied and not taking extra healing from the primary healers. Or potentially keeping a mob occupied while offering spot healing as well. I actually played my paladin like this a lot pre 1.07. So that would mean even less need for the warrior to off tank for a bit then go DPS nuts.
I think you would kick much ass with any build, but from looking at what I'm expecting you to end up doing most often I think the arms build is going to be the way to go.
Just my thoughts on it.
Not directly related to your question
Something I've wondered about just from a personal DPS standpoint is the "Bettle Stance Fury warrior". Where you do something like this build
I realize it doesn't offer a lot of utility to any group, you don't have stellar tanking and you don't have a lot in the way of group buffs other than imp battle shout. You are gimped in PvP without tactical mastery. But the idea is that you give up the extra damage you take and the extra AP and crit (from imp zerker stance) and stay in battle for the opportunistic attacks. Deep wounds likely won't add a lot of DPS because of the fact you'll keep overwriting it with other crits, but you will gain from impale. Not sure what the value of sweeping strikes would be though you could swap to a 2 hander for it then swap back, but I'm not looking at 2H fury that is yet another build. I went with mace spec for the extra rage but you could do axe or sword spec though the way the sword spec procs work I think you'd be better off with an axe or mace. The points in imp heroic strike are also floaters, but there isn't much else to put them in and it some lucky proc of mace spec and unbridled wrath could have you with extra rage that you might want to dump via HS.
I don't know how hard that would be to plug into your models but I've been curious about it.
Now onto your questions
As to your thoughts.
I'll start by saying that I'm still biased towards a 2 handed Conc, it feels right to me. :) But I'll try to not let that influence my thoughts. :)
We've got several warriors and druids and a few paladins coming up that want to tank and like to tank. We've got a few who are tanking now but might be happier changing to something else. Unless mitigation becomes a huge concern, and it might as we are starting to look at heroics and the early raid instances, you could still tank any five man just fine if we needed you too, regardless of spec. I don't think that will generally be needed though, so on the same page there.
So that being said I think I agree with you looking at something more focused than how your builds have been in the recent past. You do very well as the DPS warrior and sometimes off tank, but even then we tend to let the hunter pets take that off tank roll or put it on someone else and let you unleash your rage. There is also a pretty nice trinket in shadow labs that our group ended up DE'ing that is nice for classes that don't have good ways to deal with extra aggro. Something that you might consider.
I think all this rules out the fury/prot line as well. You can do better pure DPS with another spec and you aren't needed to tank. You certainly can if you want to and we'd embrace it if you did, but if you are looking for more DPS I don't think you need to worry about the more hybrid build, the biggest reason would be for PvP as I can see some of that starting up again and you may want that prot PvP utility. But on the PvE side I think you are better with something else.
So again that is back to fury vs arms. As you mentioned, and I agree with, the arms build would be better for the smaller group PvP and arena stuff of the 2 builds. Especially if we can do the 2 pally, 1 warrior 3 man team, I've always pictured that with a prot pally, ret pally, and arms warrior. It offers more to the raids as well. In the 5 mans we can't always say you will have a shaman, but in the raids if you are arms spec, you will get a shaman in your group and can expect windfury to be there. You will very likely be in battle a lot of the time and the imp T-clap will be there as well as the friendlier longer lasting improved shouts. But I'm in agreement on the utility to the group. As fury you are offering more damage (and as mentioned the upside could be more than you show) but you aren't offering a lot of other utility that the arms build also doesn't offer. Slightly stronger offtank but not as much group DPS boosters and as mentioned I don't think the off tanking is really going to be heavily needed. I'm starting to think that paladins are going to be the ultimate off tanks with the ability to keep a mob or 2 occupied and not taking extra healing from the primary healers. Or potentially keeping a mob occupied while offering spot healing as well. I actually played my paladin like this a lot pre 1.07. So that would mean even less need for the warrior to off tank for a bit then go DPS nuts.
I think you would kick much ass with any build, but from looking at what I'm expecting you to end up doing most often I think the arms build is going to be the way to go.
Just my thoughts on it.
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It's all just zeroes and ones and duct tape in the end.
It's all just zeroes and ones and duct tape in the end.