02-01-2007, 11:55 PM
Having played heavily as a Fury/Prot warrior in the past, I see several ways to try to min/max your way to a fury/prot build. Here are some basic ideas:
If you're going Fury/Prot, you're probably looking for a mix of tanking and DPS with as much utility as you can muster. To this end, there are some key talents in all three trees to consider:
Arms
In general, there are only 3 talents in the Arms tree that are really that big a deal for a Fury/Prot hybrid. There is also Improved Thunder Clap, which is a good skill but I would say that generally those points are best spent elsewhere.
Deflection - +5% Parry
This is great for tanking purposes and it leads into more good stuff further down the tree
Improved Heroic Strike - 3 less rage for Heroic Strike
This improves both tanking and DPS if you want to start spamming Heroic Strike. This is a bit less effective than it was pre-2.0 because you generally won't have quite as much rage available for Heroic Strike spam while DPSing.
Anger Management - More Rage
This talent gives you more rage, which is always very nice.
Fury
In general, the basis of a Fury build is the following 31 points in Fury. There can be some modifications made (like 5/5 Improved Battle Shout instead of Piercing Howl or Improved Demoralizing Shout instead of Unbridled Wrath), but this is the most common basis for a Fury build. In addition to this, you find the following talent options:
Improved Execute - 5 less rage for Executes
This is great for execute spam situations, particularly with lower rage generation while DPSing.
Improved Berserker Rage - 10 instant Rage when using Berserker Rage
I love this skill and have missed it terribly since I spec'd out of it. It makes Berserker Rage into a mini-Blood Rage that can be used every 30 seconds without the cost of life. Great for grinding out mobs and when DPSing on bosses. Also useful for pulls while tanking.
Precision - +3% hit
This is a good upgrade, but if you have a lot of +hit gear it will likely only benefit your white hits. In that case it would essentially be +0.5% DPS per talent point. Good but not great, in my opinion.
Improved Berserker Stance - +10% attack power in Berserker Stance
Attack power is great for fury warriors, but this only applies for Berserker Stance so it won't be as useful for tanking. This works out to be ~1% DPS per talent point, by my 10 second estimation, so it is good for DPSing.
Rampage - Extra AP skill that costs rage
The reports that I have heard about this skill are that it is ok. It doesn't scale (which is bad) and it costs rage (which is also bad), but it can give you a fair amount of extra AP. I would say it is ok.
Overall, I think that Fury/Prot hybrids who want to put more than 31 points in Fury are best off picking up Precision and those last points in Improved Battle Shout and Dual Wield specialization. Points beyond that are purely DPS talents and would not really be a benefit to tanking.
Protection
There are many very good talents for tanking found throughout the Protection tree. However, the key talent to pick up in a Fury/Prot build is Defiance. Defiance requires that you spend at least 13 points in the tree. Those points are usually spent on the following:
Tactical Mastery - Save 15 rage when swapping stances
This is obviously a great warrior talent. I suggest 3/3
Beyond Tactical Mastery, you generally get to choose to put 2 points into one of the following:
Improved Bloodrage - 6 instant rage when Bloodraging
This improves the rage generation of Bloodrage. This is primarily a boon to tanking (usually on the pull) though it can also help out a great deal while DPSing if you can stand the damage it deals.
Anticipation - 4 defense skill (+0.20% Parry, Dodge, Block, -20% chance to be crit) per point
This is a decent talent that will improve the base defensive talents by a fair amount. Pure mitigation talents are in limited supply so I think it is worth the points if you can spare them.
The second tier of points is generally split between either Shield Spec or Toughness. Shield Spec is good because it leads to Improved Shield Block that gives an extra block when using Shield Block (which is great for boss tanking). Toughness is nice because it increases your base mitigation (via armor) in both DPS and Tanking situations. Both are very nice so this is often an interesting toss-up pick if you can't get both.
The third tier of skills is usually pretty easy to pick from: 3 points in Defiance, 1 in Last Stand, 1 point in Improved Shield Block if you invested in Shield Spec or 1 point in an earlier tier if you didn't. From here on out, the decisions are more wide-open:
Improved Revenge - Chance to stun on Revenge
Personally, I don't care for this talent because it seems like it only helps on trash mobs (where you don't usually care about it) and not on boss mobs (where you wish it did work). But some people like it.
Concussion Blow - 5 second stun for 15 rage
Great skill. I love stuns that you can actually control. One point in this is definitely worthwhile if you are going this deep in the protection tree.
Improved Sunder Armor - 3 less rage to Sunder Armor
This is a very good skill since Sunder Armor is a warrior's best friend (particularly if it doesn't have Devestate). I would definitely take this if you go far enough in the tree.
Improved Disarm/Improved Taunt/Improved Shield Bash/Improved Shield Wall
All of these are somewhat "meh" talents compared to the other protection talents out there. I would generally say that Improved Shield Bash is hte best of the bunch, Improved Taunt the next best and the other two not very good. If you have extra points, I would put them into those talents in that order.
One-Handed Weapon Specialization - +10% damage with one-handed weapons
This talent is the BEST passive DPS bonus you can get with a fury warrior. +2% DPS per point is amazing. It also helps to increase rage generation for both DPS and tanking situations as well as extra threat while tanking. This talent is perhaps THE reason that warriors can largely go for a fury/prot hybrid rather than a full fury build and not really lose any DPS effectiveness (while gaining a ton of tanking utility). This talent is amazingly good.
Now that I've laid out the talents, here are some builds that use them (starting with my favorite). In general, I would say that the natural cut-offs for putting points into Protection are at 30 points, 19-21 points and 14 or 15 points. Generally, how much of the Protection tree you want will dictate what other talents you pick up:
0/31/30
This build uses (or perhaps abuses) the fact that One-Handed Weapon Spec is amazing for DPS to put 30 points into Protection without sacrificing much DPS power. Some slight modifications could be made to the points leading up to it, but the key talents are the 31 point fury base, Defiance, and One-Handed Weapon Spec. Great hybrid build.
5/35/21
This build picks up Concussion Blow and then dumps the rest of the points into Precision, Deflection and one other point to float around. It is nice to have those other talents, but those DPS upgrades can't make up for losing the +10% damage of One-Handed Weapon Spec.
5/36/20
Same as above, but drop Concussion Blow to max out Improved Battle Shout. I would pick the above build before this one.
11/36/14, 11/35/15, or 11/31/19
These builds drop either the shield talents, Toughness, or the extra fury talents to pick up Anger Management. Good rage pick-up, but it's tough to lose any of the talents that you have to drop.
There are obviously other builds you could come up with (like 5/5 deflection, 15 points in protection and the rest in fury), but I think they would tend to get overshadowed by the 0/31/30 build. It really is an excellent hybrid build if that is what you're shooting for.
As far as protection builds go, I would tend to go with 5/5/41 + 10. This is a great base protection build that can be modified a number of ways (such as 11/5/45, 5/11/45 or 5/5/51). After the base 60 points in 5/5/41, the rest of the points are very variable and can be played with to find your favorite mix. :)
If you're going Fury/Prot, you're probably looking for a mix of tanking and DPS with as much utility as you can muster. To this end, there are some key talents in all three trees to consider:
Arms
In general, there are only 3 talents in the Arms tree that are really that big a deal for a Fury/Prot hybrid. There is also Improved Thunder Clap, which is a good skill but I would say that generally those points are best spent elsewhere.
Deflection - +5% Parry
This is great for tanking purposes and it leads into more good stuff further down the tree
Improved Heroic Strike - 3 less rage for Heroic Strike
This improves both tanking and DPS if you want to start spamming Heroic Strike. This is a bit less effective than it was pre-2.0 because you generally won't have quite as much rage available for Heroic Strike spam while DPSing.
Anger Management - More Rage
This talent gives you more rage, which is always very nice.
Fury
In general, the basis of a Fury build is the following 31 points in Fury. There can be some modifications made (like 5/5 Improved Battle Shout instead of Piercing Howl or Improved Demoralizing Shout instead of Unbridled Wrath), but this is the most common basis for a Fury build. In addition to this, you find the following talent options:
Improved Execute - 5 less rage for Executes
This is great for execute spam situations, particularly with lower rage generation while DPSing.
Improved Berserker Rage - 10 instant Rage when using Berserker Rage
I love this skill and have missed it terribly since I spec'd out of it. It makes Berserker Rage into a mini-Blood Rage that can be used every 30 seconds without the cost of life. Great for grinding out mobs and when DPSing on bosses. Also useful for pulls while tanking.
Precision - +3% hit
This is a good upgrade, but if you have a lot of +hit gear it will likely only benefit your white hits. In that case it would essentially be +0.5% DPS per talent point. Good but not great, in my opinion.
Improved Berserker Stance - +10% attack power in Berserker Stance
Attack power is great for fury warriors, but this only applies for Berserker Stance so it won't be as useful for tanking. This works out to be ~1% DPS per talent point, by my 10 second estimation, so it is good for DPSing.
Rampage - Extra AP skill that costs rage
The reports that I have heard about this skill are that it is ok. It doesn't scale (which is bad) and it costs rage (which is also bad), but it can give you a fair amount of extra AP. I would say it is ok.
Overall, I think that Fury/Prot hybrids who want to put more than 31 points in Fury are best off picking up Precision and those last points in Improved Battle Shout and Dual Wield specialization. Points beyond that are purely DPS talents and would not really be a benefit to tanking.
Protection
There are many very good talents for tanking found throughout the Protection tree. However, the key talent to pick up in a Fury/Prot build is Defiance. Defiance requires that you spend at least 13 points in the tree. Those points are usually spent on the following:
Tactical Mastery - Save 15 rage when swapping stances
This is obviously a great warrior talent. I suggest 3/3
Beyond Tactical Mastery, you generally get to choose to put 2 points into one of the following:
Improved Bloodrage - 6 instant rage when Bloodraging
This improves the rage generation of Bloodrage. This is primarily a boon to tanking (usually on the pull) though it can also help out a great deal while DPSing if you can stand the damage it deals.
Anticipation - 4 defense skill (+0.20% Parry, Dodge, Block, -20% chance to be crit) per point
This is a decent talent that will improve the base defensive talents by a fair amount. Pure mitigation talents are in limited supply so I think it is worth the points if you can spare them.
The second tier of points is generally split between either Shield Spec or Toughness. Shield Spec is good because it leads to Improved Shield Block that gives an extra block when using Shield Block (which is great for boss tanking). Toughness is nice because it increases your base mitigation (via armor) in both DPS and Tanking situations. Both are very nice so this is often an interesting toss-up pick if you can't get both.
The third tier of skills is usually pretty easy to pick from: 3 points in Defiance, 1 in Last Stand, 1 point in Improved Shield Block if you invested in Shield Spec or 1 point in an earlier tier if you didn't. From here on out, the decisions are more wide-open:
Improved Revenge - Chance to stun on Revenge
Personally, I don't care for this talent because it seems like it only helps on trash mobs (where you don't usually care about it) and not on boss mobs (where you wish it did work). But some people like it.
Concussion Blow - 5 second stun for 15 rage
Great skill. I love stuns that you can actually control. One point in this is definitely worthwhile if you are going this deep in the protection tree.
Improved Sunder Armor - 3 less rage to Sunder Armor
This is a very good skill since Sunder Armor is a warrior's best friend (particularly if it doesn't have Devestate). I would definitely take this if you go far enough in the tree.
Improved Disarm/Improved Taunt/Improved Shield Bash/Improved Shield Wall
All of these are somewhat "meh" talents compared to the other protection talents out there. I would generally say that Improved Shield Bash is hte best of the bunch, Improved Taunt the next best and the other two not very good. If you have extra points, I would put them into those talents in that order.
One-Handed Weapon Specialization - +10% damage with one-handed weapons
This talent is the BEST passive DPS bonus you can get with a fury warrior. +2% DPS per point is amazing. It also helps to increase rage generation for both DPS and tanking situations as well as extra threat while tanking. This talent is perhaps THE reason that warriors can largely go for a fury/prot hybrid rather than a full fury build and not really lose any DPS effectiveness (while gaining a ton of tanking utility). This talent is amazingly good.
Now that I've laid out the talents, here are some builds that use them (starting with my favorite). In general, I would say that the natural cut-offs for putting points into Protection are at 30 points, 19-21 points and 14 or 15 points. Generally, how much of the Protection tree you want will dictate what other talents you pick up:
0/31/30
This build uses (or perhaps abuses) the fact that One-Handed Weapon Spec is amazing for DPS to put 30 points into Protection without sacrificing much DPS power. Some slight modifications could be made to the points leading up to it, but the key talents are the 31 point fury base, Defiance, and One-Handed Weapon Spec. Great hybrid build.
5/35/21
This build picks up Concussion Blow and then dumps the rest of the points into Precision, Deflection and one other point to float around. It is nice to have those other talents, but those DPS upgrades can't make up for losing the +10% damage of One-Handed Weapon Spec.
5/36/20
Same as above, but drop Concussion Blow to max out Improved Battle Shout. I would pick the above build before this one.
11/36/14, 11/35/15, or 11/31/19
These builds drop either the shield talents, Toughness, or the extra fury talents to pick up Anger Management. Good rage pick-up, but it's tough to lose any of the talents that you have to drop.
There are obviously other builds you could come up with (like 5/5 deflection, 15 points in protection and the rest in fury), but I think they would tend to get overshadowed by the 0/31/30 build. It really is an excellent hybrid build if that is what you're shooting for.
As far as protection builds go, I would tend to go with 5/5/41 + 10. This is a great base protection build that can be modified a number of ways (such as 11/5/45, 5/11/45 or 5/5/51). After the base 60 points in 5/5/41, the rest of the points are very variable and can be played with to find your favorite mix. :)
-TheDragoon