Imp. Fireball and Imp. Frostbolt damage coefficient changes

[Quark]

The problem I have here is that the argument is about the talent decreasing their DPM. As I see it, that means a mage that doesn't take the talent will receive more benefit out of things such as evocation, BoW, mana stream, mana gems and mana potions - since their spells are more efficient, the damage equivalent (how much pain they can deal with the mana restored) of, say, a major mana potion is larger. Even mana/5 will benefit a nontalented mage more. Slight, yes, but given the direction that blizzard seems to be taking the mage itemization (more regen, less bam) it's a valid point.

The math that was run ignored all that - indeed, even assuming it would work towards the talented mage's advantage.

If you're limited by one resource (in this case, mana), the less of a percentage you are limited by it, the less of a factor it becomes.

I ran it again with just mage mana returns (Evocation + 3 gems during a 5 minute fight)

Total with talent: 298 seconds, 63216 damage, 49 casts
+ wand difference (15 seconds): +1230 = 64446 damage
Total without: 299 seconds, 64531 damage, 47 casts

% difference = 0.13%

And, again, add just Seal of Wisdom, and it should put the favor completely in the hands of the talented mage because he can wand back for more effective mana more often.

Edit: I haven't done math, but the way they implemented this talent implies to me that there's some sort of +damage break-even point where the talent becomes absolutely useless. Has anyone done any back of the envelope math to see if that point is attainable given itemization in the near future?

3.5 seconds @ 100% gains .286 DPS per +damage point (x/3.5)
3.0 seconds @ 90% gains .3 DPS per +damage point (.9*x/3)
3.0 seconds @ 100% (pre-nerf) gains .333 DPS per +damage point (x/3)
So talented now scales 4.9% better instead of 16.4% better. Wow, I never looked at it that way before. Pre-nerf, Improved Fireball was a >3% talent.

Chicken scratch take 2:

Evocation: 1500% regen for 8 seconds, 8 minute cooldown
506.25 + 7.4 = 513.65, * 8 = 4109.2 mana in 8 seconds
Mana Emerald - 1136 mana - 2min cooldown
Mana Ruby - 1000 mana
Mana Citrine - 775 mana

2911 mana from gems

Use Mana Emerald after 4 casts (12 seconds in talented, 14 seconds in untalented)
1.5 second delay, 1136 mana
8136 effective mana, 18 casts until out. In 18 casts, 55.5 seconds or 64.5 seconds
55.5 * 17.525 = 972.6375 (2 bonus)
64.5 * 17.525 = 1130.3625 (2 bonus)

With talent:
Out of mana after 20 casts, 61.5 seconds, 26340 damage
Evocation, 8 seconds (69.5), 4109 mana
9 more casts, 27 seconds (96.5), 11853 damage (38193)
1 bonus cast, 3 seconds (99.5), 1317 damage (39510)
Regen 140 seconds (239.5) - 5761 + gem (1000) + gem (775) = 7536 effective mana, 1.5 second delay (1 gem during casting)
17 casts, 51 seconds (292), 22389 damage (60582)
2 bonus casts, 6 seconds (298), 2634 damage (63216)

With talent:
Out of mana after 20 casts, 71.5 seconds, 27460 damage
Evocation, 8 seconds (79.5), 4109 mana
9 more casts, 31.5 (111), 12357 damage (39817)
1 bonus casts, 3.5 (114.5), 1373 damage (41190)
Regen 125 seconds (239.5) - 5144 + gem (1000) + gem (775) = 6919 effective mana, 1.5 second delay (1 gem during casting)
15 casts, 52.5 seconds (292), 20595 damage (61785)
2 bonus casts, 7 seconds (299), 2746 damage (64531)