Senate report concludes: no proof of contact between

[kandrathe]

Well, then, in that case, this is a war that is never going to end.

I agree. I don't think people really understand how difficult it will be to regain the sense of peace and security we had prior to 9/11. The stated goal of driving back the Jihadi's and Qudists is probably akin to "The war on Drugs", where we get to a level of political numbness and sacrifice a bunch of personal freedom.

Might as well sign 'innocent until proven guilty' off permanently. The right to a fair trial is not there to 'coddle' terrorists, and does not waste courtroom time. It's there for innocents to be able to prove their innocence. If anyone is convinced that there is nothing wrong with throwing out legal proceedings, the rule of law, and the right to be judged by one's peers, then they might as well put their money where their mouths are, and get rid of the judges, and courtrooms. After all, if the government accuses someone of terrorism, they must be guilty, and all that legal mumbo-jumbo's a waste of taxpayer money.

In 1942, half a dozen Nazi sabateurs were caught in the US, were tried in a secret military tribunal and executed. The Supreme court later reviewed the case and judged it to be within the constitutions bounds. This is better than that, and these detainees will be treated more fairly than our enemies will treat any Western prisoners. I believe we've seen that their standard is beheading with a dull knife. Now, that doesn't justify a similiar level of barbarity. If your main beef is the delay between capture and trial, then I think the recent bill will now help make a trial process possible.

Somehow, I don't think that leaving them to rot in Cuba forever, with no charges, is the 'due process' of a speedy, fair, etc, trial.

Certainly that is the 14th amendment decision that the Supremes will need to assess, whether this is equal protection or not. Citizens will get the Cadillac version of justice, while non-citizens get the Chevy version of justice. But, then, show me a country that does treat citizen and non-citizen equally.

I simply can't imagine how (at times) reasonable people like you and Occhi can even consider this kind of bull#$%& to be permitted in a free country.

First, my arguments are at times a presentation of facts as I see them, not neccesarily how I feel about those facts. I'm still wrestling with how I "feel" about this topic. I'm not blissfully ignorant of the freedoms that are being sacrificed in the name of security. It is troubling for me as well. Second, it is a victory for civilization over barbarity whenever a deliberative body, like Congress, can debate and compromise on legislation on how a nation should fairly treat those persons who seek to destroy it. There was a time not too long ago, when pillaging, scorched earth and genocide were the preferred methods for utterly defeating an enemy. I would feel better if such nebulous ideas as a "war on terror" had a sunset provision where Congress would reauthorize the President to continue the war annually, or even every four years.

The question I ask myself is; Can we just ignore the Jihadi's and carry on without any change to our modus operandi? Human nature is to shrink away from pain, so too I believe the natural societal response to terrorism is denial and appeasement. But, maybe the correct approach to save the corpus is to lance the boil, and aggressivly fight the infection. There is a careful balance with on one hand having the instruments to surgically remove the infection, while not being so savage that you cripple or kill the body. The more the Jihadi's make us sacrifice our liberties, waste our time and resources, the better off they are, and the worse off we become. But, if we ignore them completly, we also lose as they run are allowed to spread freely. So, again, I come around to that careful, intelligent, chess game where we need to patiently do the right thing at the right time. Part of my perspective is colored by my extensive study of Asian political thought, where political change is measured in life times rather than 2 year election cycles. Patience is an incredible political force that the US and its populace have no understanding of whatsoever.