Naxxramas

[Mavfin]

In a 40 man raid, at least 1/2 the people there are doing jobs that require basically no real skills, just a monkey-like attitude. Even the other 1/2 is not completely comprised of "great" players.

As far as reaching the highest status in PvP.... C'mon now. It would take 5 times more time to reach it than to do some raids.

Top AH items - not even close to top raid items. If you do not see that, you are either blind or just refuse to agnowledge the truth. So, I need to spend thrice the time to GRIND for the money in order to get items that are still less powerful and in the case of weapons *a lot* less powerful? Yeh, that makes sense..... to a cow.

You are not addressing my main point. I do not complain about the fact that it is more difficult without raiding to get upper-end gear. My point is that it is competely *impossible*.
You know the game purely from a raider's PoV and nothing else. I see that now. So why should I bother arguing any more with you? Those with full bellies can never see life from the same point of view as those who are starving to death.
Have a nice day.
-A
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Oh, you're mostly correct, Ashock. The best you can do at a 5-10 man level is the Dungeon 2 set, which is close to as good as some things in the first half of MC, but not really either. T0.5 is a good description. Heroism is (very roughly) halfway between Valor and Might. However, there's a piece or two even I and a couple others who have raid gear are looking at and wondering if we might want to do the quests for......

TUF *is* about as good as *some* MC weapons. It's about the same as Earthshaker and OEB, and better than Shardstrike. You can get that from PvP. No, not impossible, but it takes a ton of work.

There's the Cenarion stuff, long grind,(nvm about the axe, AQ20 quest). Some of Avarice's raiders are working toward/have already gotten some of that. No, I have Mala, so I'm not going for it. It is definitely within your reach w/o more than a 5-man group, or maybe a pickup 10-man for a quick kill of one of the elementals. Not sure on that, exactly, but you're not talking scheduled 2-hour 20-man raid or anything, just getting together to kill something, perhaps.

But, by and large, you *are* going to top out at *some* stuff that's about what I'd call (very) early-MC quality. Any further than that, and you have to raid.

Edit; Added note: I have put in 3 months of 3-5 nights a week raiding to get what I have. You could have the Cenarion stuff easily in that time, and the D2 set, and probably the Awbee chestplate. I've spent usually 3 nights a week 3-5 hours per night in MC/BWL. Most weeks there's an Ony run, about an hour. And then I raided ZG enough to get Revered rep and get my chest/belt/bracers from there. I put a lot of time and work into it.

However, if you get said stuff....you're *way past* the average warrior on the server. (meaning the non-raid stuff I highlighted)