Spangles is an officer and a raidmaster for her guild. I have been asked to set up procedures for an organized raiding program. Our looting rules are the standard ones. I need help with writing guidelines for raiding officers that will avoid loot disputes.
We are a small guild, we all know and like each other, and I have never seen looting become an issue on a raid. The point, however, is for the raid officer to have a "fire extinguisher" handy in case of an emergency.
I am interested in hearing about the ethics and practicality of the points listed below.
___________________________
Looting:
Problems can arise because of ambiguous situations when loot appears.
Looting is controlled by the usual rules. BOE roll greed. BOP, pass and random, or roll need if the item is an upgrade or part of your set.
Most raiding in 1.10 will be in 5 player groups. Most groups will not have more than one member in a given class. The "one set item" rule will be effectively obsolete.
I propose the following guidelines for raid officers:
The fewer rules the better. Nobody wants to get bogged down in loot fights caused by unenforceable rules. I personally am totally incapable of keeping track of who needs, or gets, or got what. When in doubt, let the numbers decide.
There should be a very short list of one-per-customer items: orbs, skin of shadow, chromatic scales, stitchings. All of these have uses besides epic armor quests. Crafts and librams use them also. All members should have access to them, and be allowed to sell them if they want.
When the one-per-customer rule will be applied, it should be announced at the beginning of the raid.
Designating items for various classes (i.e. dark runes for healers) may be logical but is very dangerous. Any arbitrary rule becomes a flashpoint for fights. A dark rune (a crafts item for dark rune armor, btw) may be all a member has to show for an evening's work. Let the random number generator make loot decisons whenever possible.
Do not make snap decisions about who may roll need for blues. One of our druids is still annoyed that she was not allowed to roll for a weapon with +healing because the officer arbitrarily told her a pally must get it. She is not put out that the pally took it, but that she was not allowed to roll. If the wrong class tries mistakenly to roll for an obviously inappropriate item you make a call. Otherwise, stay out of it.
Don't make subtle distinctions about "what is better for the guild" when two or more classes have a plausible claim for an item. Nobody knows that the winner might not quit the next day. Always be as inclusive as possible in rolling. For example: "All melee classes can roll for this." Any outcome is better than a loot fight.
Nobody is allowed to roll need for their alts. Everybody has lots of alts, so everyone would always need everything, and the whole looting system would disintegrate.
The worst possible event in a raid is the world drop. An epic appears, and everyone is crazed with greed. Former friends are happy to kill one another for this bauble.
There is only one fair way to distribute a BOE epic: everybody roll need. The need roll prevents a deliberate or accidental ninja loot. Do not get involved in deciding if one class can make better use of the object than another. Any class can use a few hundred gold from auctioning the item, if they can't equip it. Don't pressure the winner to be noble and give it away. Congratulate the winner and move on. End of story.
_______________________________
Most of this seems to be applied common sense, to me.
The only argument I have seen concerns the last paragraph concerning world drop epics.
Mine is not the conventional wisdom, roughly paraphrased as:
"... I firmly believe it should go Need Before Greed (equip onsite). It removes the greed factor before it becomes a problem. "
I disagree here. The ambiguity, in my mind, lies in interpreting Need. Does a warrior need a Krol blade more than a healer needs a staff that can be bought by auctioning the blade, for example?
If a BOE world drop occurs, a truly random event, as opposed to loot that is expected in a given instance, nobody in the group should have a better chance to get it because of their class.
If an item drops that is 500g at the AH, it is worth that amount to any group member, and all should have an equal chance at it.
There is no reason to force the winner to equip it. It is not "better for the guild" for a priest to be forced to equip a priest's necklace instead of selling it to buy an epic mount, or better gear.
Besides, "the guild" had nothing to do with the drop. "The guild" did not go into the instance with the purpose of obtaining a world drop epic. Those can occur anywhere, anytime, to anyone.
An immediate need roll by the entire party decides who gets 500g or the epic, whichever they want. The minute you get involved in deciding who is more worthy of 500g you are in deep trouble.
Try to suspend belief that the best solution is always for everyone to decide who would benefit the most. Some of our guildies are, literally, children, and behave accordingly. Other raid members may be guests who consider their own agenda only.
Your comments on these issues are most welcome.
We are a small guild, we all know and like each other, and I have never seen looting become an issue on a raid. The point, however, is for the raid officer to have a "fire extinguisher" handy in case of an emergency.
I am interested in hearing about the ethics and practicality of the points listed below.
___________________________
Looting:
Problems can arise because of ambiguous situations when loot appears.
Looting is controlled by the usual rules. BOE roll greed. BOP, pass and random, or roll need if the item is an upgrade or part of your set.
Most raiding in 1.10 will be in 5 player groups. Most groups will not have more than one member in a given class. The "one set item" rule will be effectively obsolete.
I propose the following guidelines for raid officers:
The fewer rules the better. Nobody wants to get bogged down in loot fights caused by unenforceable rules. I personally am totally incapable of keeping track of who needs, or gets, or got what. When in doubt, let the numbers decide.
There should be a very short list of one-per-customer items: orbs, skin of shadow, chromatic scales, stitchings. All of these have uses besides epic armor quests. Crafts and librams use them also. All members should have access to them, and be allowed to sell them if they want.
When the one-per-customer rule will be applied, it should be announced at the beginning of the raid.
Designating items for various classes (i.e. dark runes for healers) may be logical but is very dangerous. Any arbitrary rule becomes a flashpoint for fights. A dark rune (a crafts item for dark rune armor, btw) may be all a member has to show for an evening's work. Let the random number generator make loot decisons whenever possible.
Do not make snap decisions about who may roll need for blues. One of our druids is still annoyed that she was not allowed to roll for a weapon with +healing because the officer arbitrarily told her a pally must get it. She is not put out that the pally took it, but that she was not allowed to roll. If the wrong class tries mistakenly to roll for an obviously inappropriate item you make a call. Otherwise, stay out of it.
Don't make subtle distinctions about "what is better for the guild" when two or more classes have a plausible claim for an item. Nobody knows that the winner might not quit the next day. Always be as inclusive as possible in rolling. For example: "All melee classes can roll for this." Any outcome is better than a loot fight.
Nobody is allowed to roll need for their alts. Everybody has lots of alts, so everyone would always need everything, and the whole looting system would disintegrate.
The worst possible event in a raid is the world drop. An epic appears, and everyone is crazed with greed. Former friends are happy to kill one another for this bauble.
There is only one fair way to distribute a BOE epic: everybody roll need. The need roll prevents a deliberate or accidental ninja loot. Do not get involved in deciding if one class can make better use of the object than another. Any class can use a few hundred gold from auctioning the item, if they can't equip it. Don't pressure the winner to be noble and give it away. Congratulate the winner and move on. End of story.
_______________________________
Most of this seems to be applied common sense, to me.
The only argument I have seen concerns the last paragraph concerning world drop epics.
Mine is not the conventional wisdom, roughly paraphrased as:
"... I firmly believe it should go Need Before Greed (equip onsite). It removes the greed factor before it becomes a problem. "
I disagree here. The ambiguity, in my mind, lies in interpreting Need. Does a warrior need a Krol blade more than a healer needs a staff that can be bought by auctioning the blade, for example?
If a BOE world drop occurs, a truly random event, as opposed to loot that is expected in a given instance, nobody in the group should have a better chance to get it because of their class.
If an item drops that is 500g at the AH, it is worth that amount to any group member, and all should have an equal chance at it.
There is no reason to force the winner to equip it. It is not "better for the guild" for a priest to be forced to equip a priest's necklace instead of selling it to buy an epic mount, or better gear.
Besides, "the guild" had nothing to do with the drop. "The guild" did not go into the instance with the purpose of obtaining a world drop epic. Those can occur anywhere, anytime, to anyone.
An immediate need roll by the entire party decides who gets 500g or the epic, whichever they want. The minute you get involved in deciding who is more worthy of 500g you are in deep trouble.
Try to suspend belief that the best solution is always for everyone to decide who would benefit the most. Some of our guildies are, literally, children, and behave accordingly. Other raid members may be guests who consider their own agenda only.
Your comments on these issues are most welcome.
![[Image: spangles_sig_3.jpg]](https://home.comcast.net/~swesson5/spangles_sig_3.jpg)