They are looking at the Shaman now

[Dozer]

Like priests with, fight depending, flash heal or dispel magic? :-)
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Priests have renew, Priests have Prayer of healing. In a raid situation, most of the time, i can sit there with four fingers on my keyboard, mashing lesser healing wave with the main tank targeted (and mana conserve on) and recasting totems when i hear the expiration notification sound with my other three fingers. I'm usually watching tv.

No, we get 15%.  Don't assume all priests are specced the same; three of our regular raid are currently shadow specced, and don't have Meditation for the additional 15. [right][snapback]102961[/snapback][/right]

Yes, and what raid guild trying to learn AQ is going to take shadow priests in place of holy priests? or feral druids? or non Restoration Shaman? Any priest wanting to maximize raid effectiveness is pretty much forced into some variation of 26/25, much like Druids are forced to Innervate and Shaman are forced to Mana Tide.
What do Paladins get pressured to spec to, besides Blessing of Kings? (not a rhetorical question, actually wanting to know)

How this will change with the new trees in 1.10, I don't know.
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Meditation is now a 3-point talent at the 11-point position in its tree.

All this bitterness over whether class A is more broken than class B.  Surely the fact that there is so much disagreement over the ordering suggests that it's rather a subjective issue?
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I'll concede that point; that comment wasn't really part of this discussion.

Shamans have some godawful totems and some rubbish talents to improve them, and I'd love to see some more raid-beneficial ones along the lines of the paladin blessings replacing them, but mages have their share of problems too, and your complaints about your totems being substandard doesn't really seem to me to be game-breaking.


Besides, it's not an option to bring 4 paladins to a raid instead of 8 shamans.
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You miss my point. It would be ALMOST excusable if 4 paladins were better for a raid than 4 shamans. But as it stands right now the Shaman laughable. Raiding as horde should not be HARDER than raiding as alliance. It should just be different.

You also seem to be falling into the druid trap of forgetting that you're a hybrid class, therefore you're not _meant_ to be as good at healing as other classes.  Someone's got to be the worst at it.
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That's funny, because neither Druids nor Shamans nor Paladins are hybrids at the raid level. Unfortunetly we neither have the usefulness (Innervate, Blessings, Cleanse, Auras etc) nor the end-game itemization (Lawbringer, Stormrage) to support what we are doing endgame. Don't even let me get started about the stupid,stupid, overlapping, ineffective intent they had when designing Earthfury and Ten Storms.