More Ragnaros Thoughts

[Bolty]

Last night the Avarice Alliance had its third meeting against Ragnaros, wherein we were spanked most mightily but had fun. Some notes:

Issue 1) Ragnaros' AE knockback doesn't just knock you back. Sometimes it knocks you sideways. The mages in my group didn't have the advantage I had - I planted myself against the back wall of the ranged DPS group area. They had to move up some to get in range of Ragnaros, and that made them vulnerable. So just about every AE knockback, one of them would get flung sideways across the room - I could not abandon my post and had to leave them for dead. There's only two solutions I can think of:

A) Will better fire resist actually help against this knockback?
B) All ranged DPS'ers need to be VERY aware of the AE knockbacks and move back against the wall when the CTRA warning goes out. This means probably interrupting whatever attack you're doing and haul butt.

With my rear firmly planted against the ranged DPS wall, any knockbacks that flung me sideways would bump me up against a crop of the wall and put me back down safely (sans the huge fire damage, of course).

Issue 2) We need to get more DPS on Ragnaros, and I have no idea how. I hear of experienced guilds getting Ragnaros down to 40% health before the first Sons of the Flame spawn, and notice that we're only getting Rag down to 70-75%. It can't solely be gear, there's something we're not doing "right" and I can't figure out what it is. Perhaps too many of us are dying too soon. More fire resistance on DPS'ers will help with that, of course.

Issue 3) Zippyy was not in my group. However, this is a good thing. He's a dirty exploiter! (I'll let him explain it.)

Issue 4) Sons of Flame. Ergh. Even with the collapse, the fact that these buggers spawn all over the place wreaks havoc. Ones that spawn near the main tank/main tank healer groups can be picked up pretty easily, and Gnollguy did that extremely well on the 2nd attempt last night (I know this because I was healing him until I ran out of mana - could we get some Priest drops to help with that, Blizzard?). But there are "straggler" ones that spawn way out on the west side rim, between where we had the melee DPS and ranged DPS groups. Those are going to head straight for the healers and there's no tank around to pick them up, so what happened both times was Priests/Mages/Warlocks trying to keep them rooted, banished, or feared. No caster would survive long enough to drag one of them to the tank, and the healers are very busy just trying to keep people vertical and get those Sons off of them. Maybe we can designate someone in the melee DPS group who has very high fire resistance (Quark?) as the temp tank to drag one of those to the real tank - or else arrange to have those straggler Sons banished the moment they appear.


I like the setup we had going in on those runs; much like our Razorgore strategy, it may be a matter of execution (and maybe some more fire resistance). I was not a main tank healer, so I didn't get to see what kept killing our main tanks (something to do with the knockbacks sending them out of range, right?).

-Bolty

[Skandranon]

Issue 1) Ragnaros' AE knockback doesn't just knock you back.  Sometimes it knocks you sideways.  The mages in my group didn't have the advantage I had - I planted myself against the back wall of the ranged DPS group area.  They had to move up some to get in range of Ragnaros, and that made them vulnerable.  So just about every AE knockback, one of them would get flung sideways across the room - I could not abandon my post and had to leave them for dead.

An important point. Ragnaros has actually two AE knockbacks. One of them, Wrath of Ragnaros ("Taste the flames of Sulfuron!") is on a timer and is warned by CTRA. It also only hits targets in melee range. The other is simply called "random explosions" ("By fire be purged!"), targeting a random player, usually standing on the outer rims, and blowing everyone around that player away. As you might expect from the name, they're on a random target and at random times.

If you're healing a ranged DPS group, ignore the CTRA calls. They're timing an attack that won't hit you.

A) Will better fire resist actually help against this knockback?

FR will protect against both sorts of knockback.

With my rear firmly planted against the ranged DPS wall, any knockbacks that flung me sideways would bump me up against a crop of the wall and put me back down safely (sans the huge fire damage, of course).

Staying close to the wall helps a lot. The key is to avoid being too far out in front of a low area of the wall, as then a random explosion can golf you over the wall into the lava behind.

Issue 2) We need to get more DPS on Ragnaros, and I have no idea how.  I hear of experienced guilds getting Ragnaros down to 40% health before the first Sons of the Flame spawn, and notice that we're only getting Rag down to 70-75%.  It can't solely be gear, there's something we're not doing "right" and I can't figure out what it is.  Perhaps too many of us are dying too soon.  More fire resistance on DPS'ers will help with that, of course.

70-75% is a good start. Many guides stress getting to that 40-mark, but it's not strictly necessary. If you can keep everyone alive, it's okay to just get him down to 49-50 or so. Greater Fire Protection Potions help with this, as they keep more DPSers alive longer, and prevent spell interruptions from random sources of fire damage. As you note, there is a gear issue as well. Increased use of consumables can offset this - elixirs of the mongoose, elemental sharpening stones, arcane elixirs, etc. The only other thing I can think of is that you might be delaying your DPS call too long. You should be fully engaged on him within, oh, five or so seconds of your MT going in.

Issue 4) Sons of Flame.  Ergh.  Even with the collapse, the fact that these buggers spawn all over the place wreaks havoc.  But there are "straggler" ones that spawn way out on the west side rim, between where we had the melee DPS and ranged DPS groups.  [right][snapback]95490[/snapback][/right]

With only a couple of main tanks, there are probably at least three warriors in DPS mode with the melee DPS. These three can spread out to cover the west side - they should be hopping to the outer rim at the 20 second call. You might want to put additional druids as melee healers as well, since they should drop into bearform and can tank a son on the spawn waves as well.

[Kevin]

The MT (me) was dying to crits that Rag just was not getting on my the first time. He would crit me for 1650, I'd get about 200 (400 resisted) on a lava splash and then he would hit me for 1000 (1000 resisted) fire damage. I don't think we had enough priests on me actually, I don't think we had enough short heal spamming to even things out.

I don't think Anandrol was getting out of the melee range AoE attack fast enough a couple of times so he was taking a lot damage that he shouldn't have, so when I went down I don't think he was going in at full health either.

We did have some luck in that I resisted ever knockback that he tried on me while I was still vertical.

I did a good job of holding the sons because I got a druid rez about 10 seconds before the son spawn so I was in position at the right time (I was bandaging when they came up). We need more practice on the collapse. We didn't get it as well the 2nd time because I didn't restart the Rag timer in CT so we didn't have the warnings timed correctly.

I was calling DPS at 3 sunders so it was too slow a call. I'll call DPS faster unless I get a lot of misses early. The melee DPS should probably start the jump over as soon as I engage since it will take them enough time to get across that I'll have aggro.

[Bolty]

An important point.  Ragnaros has actually two AE knockbacks.  One of them, Wrath of Ragnaros ("Taste the flames of Sulfuron!") is on a timer and is warned by CTRA.  It also only hits targets in melee range.  The other is simply called "random explosions" ("By fire be purged!"), targeting a random player, usually standing on the outer rims, and blowing everyone around that player away.  As you might expect from the name, they're on a random target and at random times.[right][snapback]95493[/snapback][/right]

Ahhh, THIS explains the sideways-directed Continental Airlines flights we were taking - someone next to us gets smacked by a Random Explosion and we go flying. Any idea what the range is on the explosion effect?

Seems to me that all ranged DPS needs to spread out more, yet, the more they're spread out the harder they are to heal. Self-bandaging is thus critical to survival, as well as knowing how to get out of any lava pit you are flung into.

So, the walls are nice, but if everyone groups up in front of a wall, it just means more pain for everyone. Better some lone mage get knocked back into the lava than 8 players go airborne and suffer 2,000 damage in an instant. This goes double for main tank healers - one blast in that pack and the tanks lose all healing for 4, 5 seconds and the healers have to waste time/mana all healing each other as well.

-Bolty

[Rinnhart]

Last night the Avarice Alliance had its third meeting against Ragnaros, wherein we were spanked most mightily but had fun.  Some notes:

Issue 1) Ragnaros' AE knockback doesn't just knock you back.  Sometimes it knocks you sideways.  The mages in my group didn't have the advantage I had - I planted myself against the back wall of the ranged DPS group area.  They had to move up some to get in range of Ragnaros, and that made them vulnerable.  So just about every AE knockback, one of them would get flung sideways across the room - I could not abandon my post and had to leave them for dead.  There's only two solutions I can think of:

A) Will better fire resist actually help against this knockback?
B) All ranged DPS'ers need to be VERY aware of the AE knockbacks and move back against the wall when the CTRA warning goes out.  This means probably interrupting whatever attack you're doing and haul butt.

With my rear firmly planted against the ranged DPS wall, any knockbacks that flung me sideways would bump me up against a crop of the wall and put me back down safely (sans the huge fire damage, of course).

Everyone needs to be aware of the knock backs and everyone needs to be able to respond quickly. Fast blinks and timely heals save lives.

Issue 2) We need to get more DPS on Ragnaros, and I have no idea how.  I hear of experienced guilds getting Ragnaros down to 40% health before the first Sons of the Flame spawn, and notice that we're only getting Rag down to 70-75%.  It can't solely be gear, there's something we're not doing "right" and I can't figure out what it is.  Perhaps too many of us are dying too soon.  More fire resistance on DPS'ers will help with that, of course.

It is very, very difficult to fight through two waves of sons. The guilds with the FR, mana pools, and tanks to manage a two sons fight generallly off Rag before the first sons even spawn. ~40% before the first wave is really the minimum as you will always burn most of your mana, and probably lose several DPS people, on the sons.

Issue 4) Sons of Flame.  Ergh.  Even with the collapse, the fact that these buggers spawn all over the place wreaks havoc.  Ones that spawn near the main tank/main tank healer groups can be picked up pretty easily, and Gnollguy did that extremely well on the 2nd attempt last night (I know this because I was healing him until I ran out of mana - could we get some Priest drops to help with that, Blizzard?).  But there are "straggler" ones that spawn way out on the west side rim, between where we had the melee DPS and ranged DPS groups.  Those are going to head straight for the healers and there's no tank around to pick them up, so what happened both times was Priests/Mages/Warlocks trying to keep them rooted, banished, or feared.  No caster would survive long enough to drag one of them to the tank, and the healers are very busy just trying to keep people vertical and get those Sons off of them.  Maybe we can designate someone in the melee DPS group who has very high fire resistance (Quark?) as the temp tank to drag one of those to the real tank - or else arrange to have those straggler Sons banished the moment they appear.
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The Sons are what make the fight difficult. "Rag's a newbslice and his sons are makin' daddy proud by kickin' way more ass than he ever could." The transition from fighting rag to fighting the sons is what makes or breaks a raid. My guild's been killing Rag for a couple weeks and we live or die based upon the success of the collapse.

Practice it a couple times before you spawn him. Make sure everyone is aware of the Sons' AE manaburn. Make sure your rogues are aware that they're tanks for this part of the fight. Make sure your rogues and warriors, even if they're on DPS duty, are wearing as much FR as possible. The sons hit hard, but it's all fire damage. Banished Sons still have their manaburn aura.

MT's need to be at or near 315 FR when buffed and they'll still die to big crits (which is why you have two MT's). Do not be shy about going to BRS and getting the FR buff from the orcs, there.

[Kevin]

So, the walls are nice, but if everyone groups up in front of a wall, it just means more pain for everyone.  Better some lone mage get knocked back into the lava than 8 players go airborne and suffer 2,000 damage in an instant.  This goes double for main tank healers - one blast in that pack and the tanks lose all healing for 4, 5 seconds and the healers have to waste time/mana all healing each other as well.
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Yeah this is why I commented a couple of times that ranged were too close togehter last night but I guess I didn't explain well enough why that was an issue. It's also why the MT and the ST need to stay apart. I was worried about quite a few things one of them being that we were taking too long on set-up (even though it is very important) and that I was going to lose people before we even got an attempt in. Sorry for not being clearer on that issue.

[Skandranon]

Ahhh, THIS explains the sideways-directed Continental Airlines flights we were taking - someone next to us gets smacked by a Random Explosion and we go flying.  Any idea what the range is on the explosion effect?

Experientally, I'd have to say somewhere around five yards, maybe as long as seven.

So, the walls are nice, but if everyone groups up in front of a wall, it just means more pain for everyone.  Better some lone mage get knocked back into the lava than 8 players go airborne and suffer 2,000 damage in an instant.  This goes double for main tank healers - one blast in that pack and the tanks lose all healing for 4, 5 seconds and the healers have to waste time/mana all healing each other as well.
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Yep. This is the problem when dealing with that attack. The walls will stop you from being kicked into the lava, but if you all group up close, the chances of getting kicked at all increase, since the random selection only needs to pick one of you to toss the rest.

The key is finding a balanced spread formation. You can't avoid the explosions completely, but you can contain how many people get bombed by each one. There should be enough room along most of the walls for the majority of your ranged groups to spread out enough. You can spread out in terms of "depth" as well. Healers can go in the back, whereas fire mages (who have to use arcane missiles in this fight) will probably be standing at the front edge of the lava.

[Rinnhart]

So, the walls are nice, but if everyone groups up in front of a wall, it just means more pain for everyone.  Better some lone mage get knocked back into the lava than 8 players go airborne and suffer 2,000 damage in an instant.  This goes double for main tank healers - one blast in that pack and the tanks lose all healing for 4, 5 seconds and the healers have to waste time/mana all healing each other as well.

-Bolty
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What works for us is to have all the tank's healers in a party with a paladin babysitting their lifebars. That way they're all certain to have FR aura and they don't have to worry about healing themselves if they get blasted (insta-gibs into the lava aside).

[Tuftears]

Could have the ranged/healers standing in pairs - I saw this mentioned in another thread. Instead of having everyone spread out evenly so each knockback hits three people (left and right), each knockback hits two people.

[KiloVictor]

So, the walls are nice, but if everyone groups up in front of a wall, it just means more pain for everyone.  Better some lone mage get knocked back into the lava than 8 players go airborne and suffer 2,000 damage in an instant.  This goes double for main tank healers - one blast in that pack and the tanks lose all healing for 4, 5 seconds and the healers have to waste time/mana all healing each other as well.
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There are lots of ways to position for this obviously. What we use is a spread for ranged DPS and a clustering pattern for MT healers. The spread is spaced such that only one person at a time is hit by the random knockback, and we only lose the odd ranged DPS class when they can't get out of the lava fast enough.

For healers, we utilize the short wall furthest in on the spiral - it's just behind the "standard" tanking spot for Rag. We have too many people in that small area to be able to space out of the random knockbacks, so we simply double up. Have two people stand on top of each other and you can usually limit the knockback to only affecting one or two healers at a time. And more FR increases your resist rate of course; I run about 250ish when I'm on MT heals.

For dealing with the Sons, we found it really useful to have druids drop into bear form - with decent FR, they can even tank Sons to keep them away from the mana users. Then once Rag is about to re-emerge, we have them Innervate a priest (if needed) and take over MT healing for the first 10 seconds while the priests regen. If you can get a decent druid-priest transition organized for the end of each Sons wave, you should be able to last through several waves without losing the MT and all your healers.

Also, you might want to practice your positioning with the raid before triggering Rag. Have people set up in DPS formation and then call for the collapse to deal with the Sons and make sure everybody's going to the right spots. If you can keep the Sons out of camp, you can easily go through several waves while you're learning the encounter. As long as you can tank Rag and heal your MT, everybody else can be mopping up the last Sons or regenning mana to be ready for the next wave of Sons.

In fact, we found that putting the emphasis on managing the Sons waves was the breakthrough for us. We probably went three or four waves on our first kill, but they were clean and controlled, and we just eventually wore Rag down between waves. When we worried about max DPS and getting him to a certain percentage before the first Sons, we typically were too low on life and mana to weather the Sons.

Hope that helps. Have fun!

Kv

[Bolty]

Yeah this is why I commented a couple of times that ranged were too close togehter last night but I guess I didn't explain well enough why that was an issue.  It's also why the MT and the ST need to stay apart.  I was worried about quite a few things one of them being that we were taking too long on set-up (even though it is very important) and that I was going to lose people before we even got an attempt in.  Sorry for not being clearer on that issue.[right][snapback]95505[/snapback][/right]

Wait, I missed something my raid leader told me and somehow it's my raid leader's fault?

Why are you apologizing?

I was likely so busy organizing (read: bossing around) the healers that I missed when you were explaining that. Anyhow, a lot of good things are being discussed here - ideas I definitely want to implement next time like having the MT healers stack in one spot on top of each other, and be in a dedicated group with a Paladin looking after them (Paladins being more naturally durable).

-Bolty

[MongoJerry]

Issue 1) Ragnaros' AE knockback doesn't just knock you back.  Sometimes it knocks you sideways.  The mages in my group didn't have the advantage I had - I planted myself against the back wall of the ranged DPS group area.  They had to move up some to get in range of Ragnaros, and that made them vulnerable.  So just about every AE knockback, one of them would get flung sideways across the room - I could not abandon my post and had to leave them for dead.  There's only two solutions I can think of:

A) Will better fire resist actually help against this knockback?
B) All ranged DPS'ers need to be VERY aware of the AE knockbacks and move back against the wall when the CTRA warning goes out.  This means probably interrupting whatever attack you're doing and haul butt.

As explained by others, there are two knockback attacks. The one CTRA warns about is one that knocks back the main tank and any other melee within a cone in the direction of the main tank. You want to make sure to have the secondary tank either 90 degrees away from the main tank (and ready to run over to the MT spot if the MT gets punted) or well back away from Ragnaros and ready to charge in if the MT gets punted. The MT and ST should have over 315 fire resistance, because yes those knockback attacks can be resisted and it's much easier on your raid if the MT resists the knockback attack often.

What's important is that aggro is wiped for everyone when the main tank is punted. So, when the CTRA warning comes up, you want all melee to back away and stop attacking. When the attack happens, the MT should announce either "punted," in which case all melee should pause a few seconds to let the secondary tank go in and get a hit on Rag, or "resisted" which means that all melee can go in immediately and pound away.

The other knockback attack is what we call the "grenades" that he throws at ranged attackers. The person targeted just takes damage but does not get thrown. However, the people around that person can get both damaged and thrown. You can resist these attacks with fire resistance, so yes, we try to get as many people as possible to wear 151+ fire resistance. The range on the grenade explosions is about 10 yards, so you have to spread out quite a bit. By the way, the grenades are strictly targeted at mana users, so shamans and paladins should not hang out with the melee. They should heal and provide their auras from across the lava.

With my rear firmly planted against the ranged DPS wall, any knockbacks that flung me sideways would bump me up against a crop of the wall and put me back down safely (sans the huge fire damage, of course).

Yes, there are different styles for fighting Ragnaros, but this is the way that The Core has found to work well for us: We tank Ragnaros on the southeast side of where Ragnaros emerges. On that side, the majority of main tank healers can have their backs against the wall and still be in healing range of the main tank. We typically have around five people against that wall and then two others to the right where you can place them so that they're far enough away from everybody so that they won't get grenaded. Seven healers is more than enough to keep the main tank up and there's no need for a healer rotation.

The ranged dps and healers for the melee classes spread out along the outside ring. There's plenty of room to spread out, so nobody should be getting launched. If they are, then it's their fault, and that person needs to learn.

Issue 2) We need to get more DPS on Ragnaros, and I have no idea how.  I hear of experienced guilds getting Ragnaros down to 40% health before the first Sons of the Flame spawn, and notice that we're only getting Rag down to 70-75%.  It can't solely be gear, there's something we're not doing "right" and I can't figure out what it is.  Perhaps too many of us are dying too soon.  More fire resistance on DPS'ers will help with that, of course.

Last night, TC didn't have its best group and we got him down to 34% before the first spawn. Of course, we have very good gear (although we had a lot of our "B-team" people who aren't as well geared). You're likely right that it has to do with people dying or getting grenaded and launched. No one should be dying from Ragnaros at all. No melee dps should ever be launched, and no one should ever pull aggro off the main tank. It took us a lot of attempts to get it through our melee dps's brains that they absolutely must back out when the CTRA warning comes up -- to the point of having people turn around just to make sure they don't hit Rag after the knockback attack on the main tank happens.

Issue 4) Sons of Flame.  Ergh.  Even with the collapse, the fact that these buggers spawn all over the place wreaks havoc.  Ones that spawn near the main tank/main tank healer groups can be picked up pretty easily, and Gnollguy did that extremely well on the 2nd attempt last night (I know this because I was healing him until I ran out of mana - could we get some Priest drops to help with that, Blizzard?).  But there are "straggler" ones that spawn way out on the west side rim, between where we had the melee DPS and ranged DPS groups.  Those are going to head straight for the healers and there's no tank around to pick them up, so what happened both times was Priests/Mages/Warlocks trying to keep them rooted, banished, or feared.  No caster would survive long enough to drag one of them to the tank, and the healers are very busy just trying to keep people vertical and get those Sons off of them.  Maybe we can designate someone in the melee DPS group who has very high fire resistance (Quark?) as the temp tank to drag one of those to the real tank - or else arrange to have those straggler Sons banished the moment they appear.

The Sons are the real part of the fight. What we do is set up two sets of main assists. Odd numbered groups assist one person (or his designated backup if that person is dead), Even numbered groups assist the other person (or designated backup) and single target dps them down. Warlocks each banish a son for 40 seconds exactly once. After the collapse, we have tanks on either side of the group with the mana using caster squishies in the middle. (Sometimes if a son gets through the tanks, I'll run to the outside where I won't get mana burned). After a perhaps initial panic, things quickly get under control. The Sons don't have much health, so they die quickly. We then banish the last son when it's at 20% so that we have some time to regnerate mana and bandage up. (If you kill the last son, Ragnaros reappears immediately). We usually have 30 seconds or so to rest before Ragnaros comes up. The raid gets back in their positions. When Ragnaros comes up again, the ranged dps finishes off the last Son and then we finish off Ragnaros.

[Legedi]

The other knockback attack is what we call the "grenades" that he throws at ranged attackers. The person targeted just takes damage but does not get thrown. However, the people around that person can get both damaged and thrown.

I don't think enough people realized this is how this part of the fight worked. This is why it is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO SPREAD OUT THAN HAVE YOUR BACK TO A WALL. If people are spead out enough no one takes a lava bath.

But if you guys really like the lava ;) .

[Pesmerga]

I don't think enough people realized this is how this part of the fight worked. This is why it is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO SPREAD OUT THAN HAVE YOUR BACK TO A WALL. If people are spead out enough no one takes a lava bath.

But if you guys really like the lava  ;) .
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yeah, i was unaware of this the first two times we fought him. Then, for last night, I tried to spread out, and some crazy people came too close to me. :D

[MongoJerry]

I don't think enough people realized this is how this part of the fight worked. This is why it is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO SPREAD OUT THAN HAVE YOUR BACK TO A WALL. If people are spead out enough no one takes a lava bath.

Yeah, that's why it's the healers who get the wall in The Core. Main tank healers unfortunately have to be in grenade range of each other, because we have to be in range of the main tank to heal him and yet far enough away that we can't grenade the main tank. So, some main tank healer grenading is inevitable. However, if the healers spread out as much as they can and those that can have their backs to the wall, only a subset of those healers will get thrown and they'll just get thrown onto dry land and can recover quickly. Range attackers on the other hand have much more room to spread themselves out.

[LochnarITB]

I don't think enough people realized this is how this part of the fight worked. This is why it is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO SPREAD OUT THAN HAVE YOUR BACK TO A WALL. If people are spead out enough no one takes a lava bath.
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The first night we faced Rags, I had moved way to the west. I never got launched. I didn't think about that until reading this thread, largely because, last night, the area that ranged DPS was told to use for their spread seemed to emphasize the use of the wall. In the first fight, the wall worked. I was able to stay up and drop some blizzards on the sons when there was little hope left. The second fight, I found myself bounced twice. The first was into the wall. The second was up/over/around(?) and I found myself deep in the lava, too far out to even get close to finding a shore to climb out on. I think we do need to spread as wide as possible, but that leaves one more thing to be aware of. The sons come out at different places along the ring. People need to be sure to collapse immediately on the call or they will aggro an emerging son and/or get smacked by the mana burn.

[Boutros]

I really favor not having the melee back out when there's a knockback coming, but ONLY if your meleers have 200 or more unbuffed FR. If you resist the knockback you still get hit with the deaggro asociated with it, which can be very helpful in helping your rogues and warriors from drawing aggro. Even if you do get knocked back, I don't think it takes you out of the fight much longer than backing out to avoid the knockback. You really can get back very quickly if you've taken the time to practice swimming and know your way around the lava. Further, warriors can intercept mid-knockback and be right back on rag instantly without taking any fall damage.

And like others have said it's very important to keep all your mana users well away from the rogues and warriors to avoid hitting them with the RSTS knockback. No meleeing shamans or paladins, it will only hurt your dps in the end.

[Zippyy]

Issue 3) Zippyy was not in my group.  However, this is a good thing.  He's a dirty exploiter!  (I'll let him explain it.)
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I was in your group temporarily. Unfortunately, the Fates separated us!

The exploit Bolty is refering to is the ability of warlocks to use Demonic Sacrifice to sacrifice our pet and gain a buff. This buff is cancelled if we summon another pet. However, if the pet we sacrificed is resurrected, the buff is not cancelled, allowing us to have the Demonic Sacrifice buff, a pet, and the Master Demonologist buff all at the same time.

I have read that GMs and CMs have been confronted with this issue, and they have said it is not considered an exploit. Despite that, I intend to find out for myself before using it again. I was just curious. :)

Oh, and I was using a sacrificed felhunter for mana regen, while the resurrected felhunter gave me (and himself) 60 resistance to all.

Next time, Bolty.

[mcgurk]

One thing we found really helpful for our first Rag kill was saving Onyxia's head to hand in before the fight.

After Domo submitted, everyone bar three people (2 tanks and a shammie) got a portal to Org and we handed in the Onyxia head for the buff. We were also lucky enough to get a Rend buff at the same time from someone's guildie.

We then hearthed to Kargath, went in and got Rag to 28% before the first sons. It really did make a huge difference to our dps although we were also buffed to the eyeballs, with potions and everything else we had, as the previous week we had come very close.

You do need to leave at least one person behind to prevent MC from resetting. We did three out of pure fear of it going wrong! :)

Only flaw with this strategy is when you win the head and have to hold it for a few days knowing there's a great reward to be had. Maybe some people see getting the Onyxia buff as cheesy but, to others, it's little different to using potions, food, juju's etc.

edit - you do still need to get the sons right though as there's still a wave to deal with. It doesn't gimp ragnaros to prevent that.

[Kevin]

One thing we found really helpful for our first Rag kill was saving Onyxia's head to hand in before the fight.
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You can't do this alliance side on Stormrage. The head is always hanging up. You have a bout a 5 minute window to get it hung before someone else does. I finally gave up holding the one I had on Balador for 9 days (checking at least twice a day most days to see if I could get it up and at least get the bonus for myself) before I finally said screw it I want the ring and turned it in with a head already hanging. Now if you got the buff with a head already up there it might be a viable strat but you just can't count on something like that on our server.