Priest Aggro in Parties

[mjdoom]

Hello all,

Ok, since the launch of the retail version of the game I have been working on my new priest character Flyndar. Whenever I am soloing aggro is not much of an issue but when I am partying I am having some trouble with aggro management. Most of my damage spells seem to grab a lot of aggro and it seems to be very difficult to use it.

My question is on any strategies people might have to manage this aggro. Should I just hang back and be content to heal mostly or can I deal damage with my smite and shadow skills effectively? I know that I can use fade to help allow the aggro to be redirected but I still find times where if I pull a monster I have a lot of trouble losing that aggro.

If someone has an effective management technique it would be greatly appreciated. When questing in small groups my healing isn't necessary as often and I'd love to be able to dish out some damage without putting myself in extreme danger.

As a side note, a bunch of my experience with this has come when I have been partying with paladins (Tribade comes to mind). Is there an issue with paladins not being able to grab aggro without Seal of Fury? Maybe we just need more coherent party tactics, i'm not sure.

I think I'm rambling now so I'll stop but I'm really just looking for any good suggestions on how to manage Priest aggro. Thanks.

- mjdoom

Edit: I can't spell.

[LavCat]

Hello all,

  Ok, since the launch of the retail version of the game I have been working on my new priest character Flyndar.  Whenever I am soloing aggro is not much of an issue but when I am partying I am having some trouble with aggro management.  Most of my damage spells seem to grab a lot of aggro and it seems to be very difficult to use it.

  My question is on any strategies people might have to manage this aggro.  Should I just hang back and be content to heal mostly or can I deal damage with my smite and shadow skills effectively?  I know that I can use fade to help allow the aggro to be redirected but I still find times where if I pull a monster I have a lot of trouble losing that aggro.

  If someone has an effective management technique it would be greatly appreciated.  When questing in small groups my healing isn't necessary as often and I'd love to be able to dish out some damage without putting myself in extreme danger.

  As a side note, a bunch of my experience with this has come when I have been partying with paladins (Tribade comes to mind).  Is there an issue with paladins not being able to grab aggro without Seal of Fury?  Maybe we just need more coherent party tactics, i'm not sure.

  I think I'm rambling now so I'll stop but I'm really just looking for any good suggestions on how to manage Priest aggro.  Thanks.

- mjdoom

Edit:  I can't spell.
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Tribade just got Seal of Fury. Has not tried it. I would think casting healing spells on the cloth characters would attract aggro to the paladin, but it does not seem to make much difference.

[Lissa]

Hello all,

  Ok, since the launch of the retail version of the game I have been working on my new priest character Flyndar.  Whenever I am soloing aggro is not much of an issue but when I am partying I am having some trouble with aggro management.  Most of my damage spells seem to grab a lot of aggro and it seems to be very difficult to use it.

  My question is on any strategies people might have to manage this aggro.  Should I just hang back and be content to heal mostly or can I deal damage with my smite and shadow skills effectively?  I know that I can use fade to help allow the aggro to be redirected but I still find times where if I pull a monster I have a lot of trouble losing that aggro.

  If someone has an effective management technique it would be greatly appreciated.  When questing in small groups my healing isn't necessary as often and I'd love to be able to dish out some damage without putting myself in extreme danger.

  As a side note, a bunch of my experience with this has come when I have been partying with paladins (Tribade comes to mind).  Is there an issue with paladins not being able to grab aggro without Seal of Fury?  Maybe we just need more coherent party tactics, i'm not sure.

  I think I'm rambling now so I'll stop but I'm really just looking for any good suggestions on how to manage Priest aggro.  Thanks.

- mjdoom

Edit:  I can't spell.
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When partying as a Priest, you're best off hanging back and healing instead of trying to do damage. You might be able to throw in a SW:P on occasion, but best to let others do the killing. Also, try to use Renew for most of your healing as this is your least agro causing healing spell and it gives you a breather at times because it's an HoT and an instant.

[Tal]

You need to let whoever is your "tank" get aggro first before you try any damage dealing spells. This means allowing the tank to land a few hits to get the mob angry enough. The other thing is that if the mob does go after you stay still and let the tank come over and grab the aggro back. Otherwise you risk aggroing other mobs as you back away from the threat. Lastly do not, DO NOT, pull with smite. A wand is preferrable to smite but the best thing, especially with a paladin is to let them do the pulling with a body pull. This last part is where I failed to communicate with you what I do when we grouped. The pally pulls by inching forward until they get the mobs attention and then pulling back to the party. Its imperative to stay back and let the pally bring the mob to you.

Lav: As of the last day of Beta seal of fury was excellent at holding and keeping aggro. Sharanna had very little trouble keeping aggro even with Zaira throwing fireballs.

[LochnarITB]

You need to let whoever is your "tank" get aggro first before you try any damage dealing spells. This means allowing the tank to land a few hits to get the mob angry enough.
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This is the concept I am having a hard time with. When I first saw the term "pulling aggro" here, I recognized what was being talked about but had no idea how to control it. Is there some way (other than the obvious when they run over and beat on my little squishy guy) to tell who has how much aggro and how an action will affect the distribution of aggro? Any pointers to aggro 101?

[MongoJerry]

When partying as a Priest, you're best off hanging back and healing instead of trying to do damage.

Don't listen to the propaganda! Priests *can* do a lot of damage, even in parties.

First, though, as far as aggro goes, keep in mind that healing generates a ton of aggro, so chances are that it's not your offensive spells that are doing most of the pulling, it's your healing spells. Now, what I do depends on how many people are in the party.

Solo party: Aggro doesn't matter. Fire away!

2-3 person party: Use SW:Pain for attacks and Renew to heal at first while the tank builds up some aggro and then build up the speed of your attacks including Holy Smite eventually if you want. If you pull aggro for a few seconds, who cares? By the time the mob gets to you and gets a few swings off on you, it'll be dead. Priests aren't as fragile as people make them out to be. And anyway, you can always Fade and keep a mob off you for an additional 10 seconds.

4-5 person instance party: Generally, my offense consists of SW:Pain and wand and/or staff hits, but this is largely due to mana conservation rather than aggro management. If all you're doing is SW:Pain, wand/staff hits, and healing and you're still pulling aggro, it's the tank who's stinking up the joint and not you.


There are only two adjustments I make for group play due to aggro management (as opposed to mana management):
1. I don't use Mind Blast -- except when finishing off a mob --, because that generates a *ton* of aggro.
2. I pause for a couple of seconds at the start of a battle for the tank to get a few hits in before I start using offensive spells. In fact, I do this so naturally I didn't realize I did it until I just saw myself play.

[Lissa]

You need to let whoever is your "tank" get aggro first before you try any damage dealing spells. This means allowing the tank to land a few hits to get the mob angry enough. The other thing is that if the mob does go after you stay still and let the tank come over and grab the aggro back. Otherwise you risk aggroing other mobs as you back away from the threat. Lastly do not, DO NOT, pull with smite. A wand is preferrable to smite but the best thing, especially with a paladin is to let them do the pulling with a body pull. This last part is where I failed to communicate with you what I do when we grouped. The pally pulls by inching forward until they get the mobs attention and then pulling back to the party. Its imperative to stay back and let the pally bring the mob to you.

Lav: As of the last day of Beta seal of fury was excellent at holding and keeping aggro. Sharanna had very little trouble keeping aggro even with Zaira throwing fireballs.
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One addendum to the bit about if you gain agro. Don't stand there, don't run away, run towards the tank. Better to have the tank to continue to hold whatever agro they're holding than to have them come running over to you to get the agro back. So run towards your tank when you gain agro, don't stand still, and don't run around like a chicken with your head cut off.

[Lissa]

Don't listen to the propaganda!  Priests *can* do a lot of damage, even in parties.

First, though, as far as aggro goes, keep in mind that healing generates a ton of aggro, so chances are that it's not your offensive spells that are doing most of the pulling, it's your healing spells.  Now, what I do depends on how many people are in the party.

Solo party:  Aggro doesn't matter.  Fire away!

2-3 person party:  Use SW:Pain for attacks and Renew to heal at first while the tank builds up some aggro and then build up the speed of your attacks including Holy Smite eventually if you want.  If you pull aggro for a few seconds, who cares?  By the time the mob gets to you and gets a few swings off on you, it'll be dead.  Priests aren't as fragile as people make them out to be.  And anyway, you can always Fade and keep a mob off you for an additional 10 seconds.

4-5 person instance party:  Generally, my offense consists of SW:Pain and wand and/or staff hits, but this is largely due to mana conservation rather than aggro management.  If all you're doing is SW:Pain, wand/staff hits, and healing and you're still pulling aggro, it's the tank who's stinking up the joint and not you.
There are only two adjustments I make for group play due to aggro management (as opposed to mana management):
1. I don't use Mind Blast -- except when finishing off a mob --, because that generates a *ton* of aggro.
2. I pause for a couple of seconds at the start of a battle for the tank to get a few hits in before I start using offensive spells.  In fact, I do this so naturally I didn't realize I did it until I just saw myself play.
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The reason I say stick to healing is except with the occasion SW:P (I forgot about wands cause I rarely use them... :P ) is for mana conservation so you can heal. It's not about not doing damage, it's about conserving your mana in the end. Better to learn this early on then late in the game as you will get yelled at if you don't conserve mana or use it efficiently in the high level instances (you can get away with wanding here as most people won't care cause you're not using mana).

[Tal]

One addendum to the bit about if you gain agro.  Don't stand there, don't run away, run towards the tank.  Better to have the tank to continue to hold whatever agro they're holding than to have them come running over to you to get the agro back.  So run towards your tank when you gain agro, don't stand still, and don't run around like a chicken with your head cut off.
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This actually goes for any of the "squishier" party members. In later instances the tank might have to soak up several mobs. Makes it easier if folks bring it over to you. =)

[Tal]

This is the concept I am having a hard time with.  When I first saw the term "pulling aggro" here, I recognized what was being talked about but had no idea how to control it.  Is there some way (other than the obvious when they run over and beat on my little squishy guy) to tell who has how much aggro and how an action will affect the distribution of aggro?  Any pointers to aggro 101?
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Its kind of difficult to explain in definite terms. If you uncork a smite to pull or a fireball before I've slapped the monster a few times chances are very good that I won't be able to get aggro off you quickly.

[Rinnhart]

Don't listen to the propaganda!  Priests *can* do a lot of damage, even in parties.

First, though, as far as aggro goes, keep in mind that healing generates a ton of aggro, so chances are that it's not your offensive spells that are doing most of the pulling, it's your healing spells.  Now, what I do depends on how many people are in the party.

Solo party:  Aggro doesn't matter.  Fire away!

2-3 person party:  Use SW:Pain for attacks and Renew to heal at first while the tank builds up some aggro and then build up the speed of your attacks including Holy Smite eventually if you want.  If you pull aggro for a few seconds, who cares?  By the time the mob gets to you and gets a few swings off on you, it'll be dead.  Priests aren't as fragile as people make them out to be.  And anyway, you can always Fade and keep a mob off you for an additional 10 seconds.

4-5 person instance party:  Generally, my offense consists of SW:Pain and wand and/or staff hits, but this is largely due to mana conservation rather than aggro management.  If all you're doing is SW:Pain, wand/staff hits, and healing and you're still pulling aggro, it's the tank who's stinking up the joint and not you.
There are only two adjustments I make for group play due to aggro management (as opposed to mana management):
1. I don't use Mind Blast -- except when finishing off a mob --, because that generates a *ton* of aggro.
2. I pause for a couple of seconds at the start of a battle for the tank to get a few hits in before I start using offensive spells.  In fact, I do this so naturally I didn't realize I did it until I just saw myself play.
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In the defense of tank classes, aggro management tools are pretty limited, especially early on. And even later on, you can over-cast.

There is a delicate balance to be maintained and it's both the caster and the tank's job to find and refine it.

These aren't EQ paladins with a dozen stuns and the ability to completely lock down aggro on a target.

[MongoJerry]

In the defense of tank classes, aggro management tools are pretty limited, especially early on. And even later on, you can over-cast.

I simply restate what I said: If all you're doing is SW:Pain, wand/staff hits, and healing and you're still pulling aggro, it's the tank who's stinking up the joint and not you.

[mjdoom]

Well, now as I've played my priest more and in a few instance runs I can say that keeping aggro off my priest is not that difficult. With the exception of adds (which don't really fit in this discussion) there have been few times where I have pulled aggro from a tank over the course of a battle. It has pretty much only happened when a battle was already going south and I start firing flash heals all over the place.

As a point of reference, my standard tactic is to use only wand/staff hits for damage. SW:P is used occasionally but it is situational. You have to be careful using it when you have mages polymorphing enemies (which is often in instances) because it will pop the polymorph. As far as healing goes I tend to use generous heapings of renew with a PW:S/flash heal combo if someone's health bar starts dropping rapidly.

- mjdoom

[Tal]

  As far as healing goes I tend to use generous heapings of renew with a PW:S/flash heal combo if someone's health bar starts dropping rapidly.

- mjdoom
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In higher level instances that combo will draw a LOT more aggro or at least it did up until the end of Beta. Better IMHO to flash heal and leave the Power word shield for if the tank is about ready to drop or to start a tough fight.

[mjdoom]

In higher level instances that combo will draw a LOT more aggro or at least it did up until the end of Beta. Better IMHO to flash heal and leave the Power word shield for if the tank is about ready to drop or to start a tough fight.
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I'll keep that in mind as I go along. I generally only use it if it looks like one particular person is taking a large beating, a lot of times renew and flash heal are enough.

I would also think that the rank level of the spell affects your aggro in which case using a rank (max-1) or (max-2) PW:S might still get the desired result of buying a second for your flash heal to go off while drawing a lot less aggro.

Using a full rank PW:S would seem more appropriate for the beginning of a battle before initially pulling the mob. I would assume that this does not affect aggro once the mob is pulled, correct me if I'm wrong.

As I asked in the beginning though, any tips are greatly appreciated. Thanks Tal.

- mjdoom

[Tal]

Using a full rank PW:S would seem more appropriate for the beginning of a battle before initially pulling the mob.  I would assume that this does not affect aggro once the mob is pulled, correct me if I'm wrong.

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I wouldn't necessarily use it prior to every fight but it is useful for boss encounters or where you can count on the tank having more than one mob on him. Shielding prior to pulling does not affect aggro once the mob is pulled.

[mjdoom]

I wouldn't necessarily use it prior to every fight but it is useful for boss encounters or where you can count on the tank having more than one mob on him. Shielding prior to pulling does not affect aggro once the mob is pulled.
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I think it comes down to a question of mana management. If you can effectively shield before battle without it negatively affecting your mana situation then there is no reason not to. If that is contributing to a negative mana situation then you should only be using it if necessary.

- mjdoom

[Magicbag]

As a cloth caster with a 1:6 health to mana ratio, I have no trouble maintaining an unhealthy amount of agro. I'm busting out my stick and wand a lot more recently :)
-MB

[maggellann]

They are very very rare, but I think this is a thread from Blizzards WoW General forum worth a read.

My ten demands for being a primary healer


Greetings,

Maggellann

[Rinnhart]

They are very very rare, but I think this is a thread from Blizzards WoW General forum worth a read.

My ten demands for being a primary healer
Greetings,

Maggellann
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Those people never partied with Fatnomo or Whiterose.

"Do another dungeon with Fatnomo or take an awl to my abdomen? Decisions, decisions."