09-19-2004, 08:16 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2004, 09:25 PM by MongoJerry.)
NEW SPIRIT REGENERATION = COMBAT DRINKING
(Originally posted on the Blizzard forums)
Last night, during the long debates on how the "no mana regen for 5 seconds after casting" rule will affect gameplay, I argued that many people's apocalyptic attitudes toward spirit were unfounded. Some claimed that there were never spaces of 5 seconds or more during which priests could take a break in combat. I reponded that that was an obvious falacy, since when drinking was allowed in combat, I remember a lot of times when I was able to take a break in the middle of combat to regen mana for a while. It takes some skill and coordination to arrange for such breaks, but it's certainly was possible. I was then told point blank that drinking and mana regen weren't even comparable, because spirit regeneration was no where near as fast as drinking regeneration and that drinking mana regeneration starts immediately whereas the new spirit regeneration starts 5 seconds after you cast. These ideas were taken as fact, even though no information had come out yet from people who had actually played the new patch.
This morning, we finally received concrete information on the new patch in a wonderful thread started by I Minerval that gives us translated information from Korean players who have already begun playing with the new patch. Among the information included was this nugget:
Hmmm... I thought to myself. That's a pretty massive change. Time to do some calculations. My lvl 55 priestess has over 300 spirit which would translate to 100 mana/tick under the new system. Morning Glory Dew restores 2773 mana over 40 seconds which translates to 69 mana/tick. That plus the spirit regeneration under the old system would translate to around 100 mana/tick of regeneration while drinking. So, in a way, this new spirit mana regeneration system is like...(drumroll)... drinking in combat!
Those who remember drinking in combat will know how powerful this can be. Far from being "useless," spirit has become very powerful in the hands of a person who alters their tactics to take mana regeneration into account. Some examples of tactics include:
1. Using "burst" casting. That is, it'll become better to cast a burst of spells and take a break between bursts than spread spell casting over time. This change is going to be fantastic for me when I'm soloing, because that's my MO anyway. I typically cast shield, pain, and mind blast in rapid succession and then whack at a mob with my staff three or four times, and then repeat. When I'm whacking at a mob, I'll be regening mana at an incredibly fast rate. I'll bet that when soloing normal mobs, I'll end up having a full tank of mana after each battle. This burst casting also applies in groups. Instead of spreading healing spells out over time, one can burst heal everyone and then cast nothing for a little bit to take a break.
2. The "top off" technique. This is a form of burst casting, but it deserves its own mention. In a well organized group battle where the warrior tank is taking all the damage, one can heal the warrior to full, cast shield and renew on him, and then take a break. When drinking was allowed in combat, I found this to be an excellent way to take a 10 second drinking break.
3. Use healer rotations. If one's group has a secondary healer, one can tell the secondary healer to take over healing for 20 seconds while the priest regens mana. Then, when the secondary healer starts to get low on mana, the priest can take over again, allowing the secondary healer to regen mana again.
4. Use teamwork. For example, before big battles, I would often arrange with my warrior tank that when I needed to take a break, I'd yell "SHIELD." This was the signal for the warrior to use that shield ability of theirs to reduce damage taken by 75% for 10 seconds. That was always a great way to buy some extra mana regeneration time for me.
5. Preshield important group members. One can shield one's tank and mages prior to combat so that you don't have to cast heals at the start of combat and regen mana during that time. One should be doing this anyway, but the new rule will give people more incentive to do so.
However, as Kiyoraka pointed out to me, the trouble with the spirit = combat drinking analogy is that combat drinking mana regeneration kicked in instantly whereas one has to wait for five seconds for the new spirit regeneration to kick in. This gives a tremendous advantage to the old combat drinking over the new spirit regeneration mechanism. No question. I can't argue with that. However, if we're going to compare the two, we also have to weigh the advantages that the new spirit mana regeneration system has over the old in combat drinking system:
1. One can still do stuff while regenning mana in the new system whereas in the old combat drinking system, one could only drink. Examples include:
a) Using one's weapons to deal damage.
b) Using engineering items like bombs and trinkets to mess with the enemy.
c) Bandaging players who are hurt but are not currently taking damage. (For example, a mage who was being attacked but cast frost nova to get away from his or her attackers could be bandaged).
d) Using alchemy items to heal oneself or damage the enemy (e.g. fire immolation potion).
2. One can use long casting time spells to mitigate combat drinking's advantage. The obvious example would be using Greater Heal, which has a 4-second cast time, to heal one's tank (a good tactic to use anyway, since it's the most mana efficient healing spell). One can use the "top off" technique described above. Then, one can take a break from casting spells for a few seconds while the mob(s) eat through the shield, renew effect, and some of the warrior's health. When about a third of the warrior's health has been removed, one can begin casting Greater Heal. Note that during the four seconds that it takes Greater Heal to cast, one continues to regen mana at an incredibly fast rate. This would not have been true under combat drinking. Of course, the warrior continues to take damage during the four seconds, but when the four seconds are up, he gets a massive heal. Result: healed warrior and a priest with lots of mana recovered. Rinse and repeat.
3. The new mana regeneration system is going to be awesome outside of combat. According to the patch notes, drinks have been improved. Combine this with the new fast spirit regen, and it'll be like we're double drinking outside of combat. The downtime is going to be cut in half, something I will be very happy about. I hate slowing up an entire group as they wait for me to drink out of combat. I don't want to emphasize this point too much, because I know that what really matters is what happens during combat. However, this will remove a significant annoyance factor for me.
So what's my conclusion? From what I've read, I'm going to like this change. It's going to take more skill and planning to take advantage of the new spirit regeneration mechanism, but I consider that to be a good thing. To those of you who are planning to dump your +spirit gear, because you think it'll be worthless in the upcoming patch, all I can say is that I'll be happy to take your +spirit gear off your hands.
(Originally posted on the Blizzard forums)
Last night, during the long debates on how the "no mana regen for 5 seconds after casting" rule will affect gameplay, I argued that many people's apocalyptic attitudes toward spirit were unfounded. Some claimed that there were never spaces of 5 seconds or more during which priests could take a break in combat. I reponded that that was an obvious falacy, since when drinking was allowed in combat, I remember a lot of times when I was able to take a break in the middle of combat to regen mana for a while. It takes some skill and coordination to arrange for such breaks, but it's certainly was possible. I was then told point blank that drinking and mana regen weren't even comparable, because spirit regeneration was no where near as fast as drinking regeneration and that drinking mana regeneration starts immediately whereas the new spirit regeneration starts 5 seconds after you cast. These ideas were taken as fact, even though no information had come out yet from people who had actually played the new patch.
This morning, we finally received concrete information on the new patch in a wonderful thread started by I Minerval that gives us translated information from Korean players who have already begun playing with the new patch. Among the information included was this nugget:
Quote:In general, the effectiveness of SPIRIT has increased significantly.
Pre-patch: Every 15 spirit, you get 1 mana per tick.
Post-patch: Every 3 spirit, you get 1 mana per tick.
(Mana pool seems to make no difference whatsoever.)
The problem is with the new rule (as stated in the patch notes) where you get no mana recovery for 5 seconds after your attack.
Hmmm... I thought to myself. That's a pretty massive change. Time to do some calculations. My lvl 55 priestess has over 300 spirit which would translate to 100 mana/tick under the new system. Morning Glory Dew restores 2773 mana over 40 seconds which translates to 69 mana/tick. That plus the spirit regeneration under the old system would translate to around 100 mana/tick of regeneration while drinking. So, in a way, this new spirit mana regeneration system is like...(drumroll)... drinking in combat!
Those who remember drinking in combat will know how powerful this can be. Far from being "useless," spirit has become very powerful in the hands of a person who alters their tactics to take mana regeneration into account. Some examples of tactics include:
1. Using "burst" casting. That is, it'll become better to cast a burst of spells and take a break between bursts than spread spell casting over time. This change is going to be fantastic for me when I'm soloing, because that's my MO anyway. I typically cast shield, pain, and mind blast in rapid succession and then whack at a mob with my staff three or four times, and then repeat. When I'm whacking at a mob, I'll be regening mana at an incredibly fast rate. I'll bet that when soloing normal mobs, I'll end up having a full tank of mana after each battle. This burst casting also applies in groups. Instead of spreading healing spells out over time, one can burst heal everyone and then cast nothing for a little bit to take a break.
2. The "top off" technique. This is a form of burst casting, but it deserves its own mention. In a well organized group battle where the warrior tank is taking all the damage, one can heal the warrior to full, cast shield and renew on him, and then take a break. When drinking was allowed in combat, I found this to be an excellent way to take a 10 second drinking break.
3. Use healer rotations. If one's group has a secondary healer, one can tell the secondary healer to take over healing for 20 seconds while the priest regens mana. Then, when the secondary healer starts to get low on mana, the priest can take over again, allowing the secondary healer to regen mana again.
4. Use teamwork. For example, before big battles, I would often arrange with my warrior tank that when I needed to take a break, I'd yell "SHIELD." This was the signal for the warrior to use that shield ability of theirs to reduce damage taken by 75% for 10 seconds. That was always a great way to buy some extra mana regeneration time for me.
5. Preshield important group members. One can shield one's tank and mages prior to combat so that you don't have to cast heals at the start of combat and regen mana during that time. One should be doing this anyway, but the new rule will give people more incentive to do so.
However, as Kiyoraka pointed out to me, the trouble with the spirit = combat drinking analogy is that combat drinking mana regeneration kicked in instantly whereas one has to wait for five seconds for the new spirit regeneration to kick in. This gives a tremendous advantage to the old combat drinking over the new spirit regeneration mechanism. No question. I can't argue with that. However, if we're going to compare the two, we also have to weigh the advantages that the new spirit mana regeneration system has over the old in combat drinking system:
1. One can still do stuff while regenning mana in the new system whereas in the old combat drinking system, one could only drink. Examples include:
a) Using one's weapons to deal damage.
b) Using engineering items like bombs and trinkets to mess with the enemy.
c) Bandaging players who are hurt but are not currently taking damage. (For example, a mage who was being attacked but cast frost nova to get away from his or her attackers could be bandaged).
d) Using alchemy items to heal oneself or damage the enemy (e.g. fire immolation potion).
2. One can use long casting time spells to mitigate combat drinking's advantage. The obvious example would be using Greater Heal, which has a 4-second cast time, to heal one's tank (a good tactic to use anyway, since it's the most mana efficient healing spell). One can use the "top off" technique described above. Then, one can take a break from casting spells for a few seconds while the mob(s) eat through the shield, renew effect, and some of the warrior's health. When about a third of the warrior's health has been removed, one can begin casting Greater Heal. Note that during the four seconds that it takes Greater Heal to cast, one continues to regen mana at an incredibly fast rate. This would not have been true under combat drinking. Of course, the warrior continues to take damage during the four seconds, but when the four seconds are up, he gets a massive heal. Result: healed warrior and a priest with lots of mana recovered. Rinse and repeat.
3. The new mana regeneration system is going to be awesome outside of combat. According to the patch notes, drinks have been improved. Combine this with the new fast spirit regen, and it'll be like we're double drinking outside of combat. The downtime is going to be cut in half, something I will be very happy about. I hate slowing up an entire group as they wait for me to drink out of combat. I don't want to emphasize this point too much, because I know that what really matters is what happens during combat. However, this will remove a significant annoyance factor for me.
So what's my conclusion? From what I've read, I'm going to like this change. It's going to take more skill and planning to take advantage of the new spirit regeneration mechanism, but I consider that to be a good thing. To those of you who are planning to dump your +spirit gear, because you think it'll be worthless in the upcoming patch, all I can say is that I'll be happy to take your +spirit gear off your hands.
