Want to try a great online web game...

[Rhydderch Hael]

Aye, I'll take your words to heart. It will now be up to just how rosy the smell of the BS I'll shovel out is going to be...

Wireless Telegraph from H.M.S. Resolute, flagship 3rd Squadron, Royal Navy

Admiralty, Greenwich directive recieved. Squadron transition effected coast of Sussex for maritime patrol. Weather conditions: fair seas, wind 10 knots WNW. Colliers on station. Piped aboard.

To XXXX XX XXXXX, Ambassador of the French Republic,
As per the orders above, given to the 3rd Squadron posted in London, that fleet was directed to sail west to Wales. The sole purpose of this action is to clear the quays of the port of London in preparation for the activation of the 4th RN Squadron. Alas, the West India company did not deem it feasible to clear their docks of commercial vessels, thus preventing the establishment of a new fleet in London whilst another remained at station there. It was deemed by the Admiralty that setting the fleet north into the coastal waters of Yorkshire would create, as my American compatriot told me, a "log-jam" when the 4th and 5th Squadrons (forming in London and Edinburgh, respectively) would put three fleets attempting entry into two waterways whilst the 1st Squadron (currently in the north) has already arrayed itself into those same waters. Requiring more sea room than is available has become our problem of late, I am humbled to say.
It is the intended operational tempo of the Royal Fleets to re-direct the 3rd Squadron now situated in Wales to return east to London once the 4th Squadron makes to the North Sea, ultimately in preparation of a Baltic drive against the German Imperial naval forces. In this course, it was deemed a more responsible action that the 3rd Squadron make to the Cornish harbours in Wales instead of needlessly endangering our alliance by posting that unit into the English Channel proper. I hope your understanding of this has been attained. As of yet, the Republic has expressed no interest in utilizing our fleets for convoy operations, and until such venture is approached, they will be utilized to our own ends in Scandinavia and the Baltic regions.

I Have the Honour to Be &C
XXXXX X XXXXX, OBE, Ambassador of Great Britain.

If this didn't work, Im left to wonder just exactly how I have been able to dupe allies and enemies alike for as long as I have.

I may still have enough clout to spin a cock and bull tale of how I must hurriedly transfer via convoy my sole army into St. Petersburg, fearing an imminent Turkish conquest of that province and my requirement of breaking the cul-de-sac with an army instead of a fleet situated on the north coast. I could say the Liverpool fleet is heading into the NAt whilst another unit will take position in the Norwegian and/or Barents in order to swap units around.

F London is assuredly making to the North Sea to cut the German route of retreat into the Skag. It then becomes a matter of holding Denmark, Norway, and Sweden until the close of Fall by anticipating German attacks and maneuvering as neccessary to stand off all efforts on part of the German.



As to the Italian: I was lamenting at the player's complete lack of intiative to have set up the convoy chain in the Spring turn, not the Fall. This, of course, built on my foreknowledge that France as vacating the Iberian to move those forces east onto the continental frontiers of France. Italy could have grabbed one key build, something I was of the opinion the player was trying to sneak one from the Austrian in Greece.

I don't know if this is a matter of a first-time player panicking under the dire situation of playing the most dis-advantaged starting nation; or a guy who made too many promises to too many of the wrong people who grew strong around him and are now subtly strangling him to death.

[Skandranon]

The build is what matters. The game, for you, branches into two completely different possibilities depending on whether France builds F Bre or not. If France builds F Bre and looks serious about it, you may have to abandon your attack on Germany in order to meet the new threat. Because it is still *possible* for France to pull off the English kill I saw in Spring 1902, just harder.

And yes, a newbie Italian is a sad, sad thing to see. Italy's best hope for centres really is France, but it looks as if Italy couldn't decide and therefore chose to do nothing. Unfortunate. Flipping a coin would have turned out better, even if it was to set up the relatively ineffectual F TYS-IOS, F IOS-ADR in the Fall. Actually, the moment he took Tunis with the fleet he committed himself against France, but he doesn't know it, and his indecisiveness may give rise to a textbook example of "vibrating unit syndrome" where his pieces simply move back and forth, turn after turn. As I said in my initial analysis; Italy is too focused on keeping and holding Tun and Ven - he's not thinking about winning so much as not losing, which isn't a good mindset.

[Rhydderch Hael]

The Build orders came in. French fleet in Brest. He announced it as part of a subversive plan between Engalnd and France to play against Germany, in that the Franco-German alliance requested French naval support for Germany's northern holdings whilst Germany contended with the Austrian menace south of him. (with the secretly declared intention to betray Germany and leave him to be fed upon by the British lion). :lol:

Never mind that Germany still has two fleets in the north that can supply that defense. Never mind that the only way France could have aided Germany is by antogonizing England with a passage through the Channel. Never mind that by the defense of Germany's north does so only at the cost of French-English antogonism as the Frech units crowd out English units in what are essentially Britain's sovereign waters at this moment!

You don't "waste" a unit in building a ruse, and you don't do it by threatening your close ally. The hostile intent is sincere.

It's a ploy. And considering that English builds were hidden from the French player until he declared his own, a little bit of foresight on my part at seeing the French's plan.

Austria already informed of the plight. Italy was prodded to look at the French. HMS London, England's premier battleship (of early 1903) has taken to sea (in a newspaper article). Time for a little naval warfare... B)

[Skandranon]

Yeah, that's what I called the smart play and it is. Thankfully, your fleets are there, and I think you'll have to abandon the attack on Denmark. Otherwise, you'll get forward-retreated and lose a home centre, which is bad.

You desperately need Italy to come in on your side right now, and you need to keep Austria pressing at Germany's south. Otherwise, you're going to have to circle wagons for a few years. That's the diplomatic problem.

France has two good sets of orders, both of which kill you if they succeed. This is the tactical problem.

1) F Bre-ENG, F MAO S F Bre-ENG, A Gas-Bre. Probably with A Par-Bur, A Bel S Par-Bur, A Pie-Mar (or A Pie H).

2) F Bre-MAO, F MAO-NAO, A Gas-Bre. Probably with A Par-Pic, A Bel H, A Pie-Mar.

With that in mind, the strongest defence and the one that defeats both these plans is:

1) F Lon-ENG, F Wal S F Lon-ENG, F Lvp-NAO, defending the German front with F Hel-NTS, F Swe H, F StP(nc)-Nwy.

This order gets you into the Channel in the fall, and does a pretty good job of preventing a French build. That is, if he doesn't order this:

3) F Bre-MAO, F MAO-IRI, A Gas-Bre, with the same land orders as #2 above.

This is a better position than either of the above two, though, because even if he does that you can hold France back with:

F NAO-Lvp, F Wal-Lvp, F Lon-ENG, F NTS S F Swe-Den, F Swe-Den, F Nwy-Ska.

This gains you Denmark (so long as Germany is still covering himself against Austria in the south, and leaves Liverpool open for the fleet build that secures you against France.

If France orders #1 or #2 above and you respond with the defence, you'll have stopped his offensive in its tracks, allowing you to use F NTS to attack Denmark just like in the above scenario. You can even order F Lon-NTS and build again in London. It's important to note, though, that you getting a build is entirely dependent on Germany not getting a unit adjacent to Den in the Spring 03 moves. That's the number one diplomatic goal.

One last question. I've been reconstructing the game in my Realpolitik, and I don't know what Turkey built. The smart build is F Smy, but I don't know that for sure, and given the strange Spring '02 where only two powers issued orders to all their units, I'm not assuming anything.

[Rhydderch Hael]

Fixing Germany down while I play "twist the nipple of Brest" with the French is going to be a problem. There is no diplomatic channel between Berlin and London, but I have smoked out one spy holding Germany's ear.

F Hel is the only thing nailing A Hol in place as long as the Austrian "intervention" is in play. Once F Hel ---> NtS is enacted, the German-French understanding would allow A Hol ---> Kiel. I could probably bait F Pru to eye St. Petersburg and thus keep him out of the Baltic, but I have no idea on how to keep the French and Germans fixed in the Low Countries. The French-Italian war, I could strike up (given that Germany has serenaded both nations to his own ends, and I'm sure Italy would not like learning about France-Germany while Italy-Germany was going so well with the Munich deal, but that nixxes my covert "messenger" to Berlin).

And as to Turkey: his build was an Army in Constantinople! :rolleyes:

[Rhydderch Hael]

An ugly, ugly theory just came to mind. It explains two things: why the French built F Brest instead of F Mar, and why the French "invasion" of Italy looks so pitiful.

Without a French flag in the waters of the Med, that Army in Piedmont isn't going to do much of anything—except support any Venetian holds from any possible Austrian attack...

If true, there's little to no hope of a French-Italian war, unless I somehow convince France to become more aggressive against Italy, or sow suspicion in the Italian about that French army on his back...

Dark days, I foresee for England. Then again, that is what I thought back in the summer of 1902. <_< Hence, my whole point I brought up in the first place: I hate "Planning for the worst, hoping for the best." and wondering what I'm doing wrong when everything is going so right...

[Skandranon]

Fixing Germany down while I play "twist the nipple of Brest" with the French is going to be a problem. There is no diplomatic channel between Berlin and London, but I have smoked out one spy holding Germany's ear.

F Hel is the only thing nailing A Hol in place as long as the Austrian "intervention" is in play. Once F Hel ---> NtS is enacted, the German-French understanding would allow A Hol ---> Kiel. I could probably bait F Pru to eye St. Petersburg and thus keep him out of the Baltic, but I have no idea on how to keep the French and Germans fixed in the Low Countries. The French-Italian war, I could strike up (given that Germany has serenaded both nations to his own ends, and I'm sure Italy would not like learning about France-Germany while Italy-Germany was going so well with the Munich deal, but that nixxes my covert "messenger" to Berlin).

And as to Turkey: his build was an Army in Constantinople!&nbsp; :rolleyes:

Yes, the German-French problem is something you're pretty much going to have to wait on. Your objective is to hold tight until someone on the other side of the board can come to your rescue, or until you can entice one of France or Germany to turn on the other.

And your assumption regarding F Hel is wrong. Unless the German player can read your mind, he won't know you're pulling F Hel to NTS until it's there, meaning the A Hol-Kie move takes place in the Fall - when you're already launching a supported attack on Denmark.

On the other hand, you really HAVE to play to NTS, because the Germans have a move that could really ruin your day: F Den-NTS! Realizing that Austria doesn't present an immediate threat, F Pru-Bal, A Mun-Kie, A Sil-Mun defends himself while F Den sails into the North Sea. Hello, Edinburgh! And not just with the fleet. F NTS C A Hol-Edi, or even C FRENCH A Bel-Edi, and it's game over England.

You could block the NTS move with F Lon. But that gives you only F Wal and F Lvp to stop the French. Again, the French have the two possibilities I outlined above. If the French go to the Channel, the only defensive plan you can order would have to be F Lvp-Wal, F Wal-Lon, to avoid having an army (presumably A Pic) convoyed into Wales or London. You could order Lvp to IRI or NAO, but then that puts your Wales fleet in the unenviable position of having a 50-50 guess, with a failure meaning that a French army lands (and you lose).

And if they don't go to the Channel and go for the backdoor play to NAO, the only way to stop that is Lvp-NAO. In other words, if you play to NTS with Lon, you no longer have the luxury of ordering one defence that stops both attacks. That said, everyone has to take risks somewhere, and if you guess correctly for just one turn you can take Den, slap down a new fleet in Lvp or Lon and freeze France in his tracks.

One thing that might play in your favour is that newbies are rarely eager to make good moves if it involves uncovering a supply centre. Despite the fact that F Den-NTS doesn't necessarily lose Den (with F Pru-BAL, A Mun-Kie he can bounce you and keep Den), Germany may not be contemplating this move. You could gamble and not play to NTS, but if he does and you don't you can't stop him from taking Edi.

Either way you're in defensive mode. You have to take Denmark since it's an extremely defensible territory, only one German army can get adjacent to it. Then clog the waters near France with fleets and hopefully one of them gets frustrated enough to go for the other. I'd start working on that now, like reopening that contact with Germany.

Actually, you know what's uglier than France supporting Italy against Austria?

These moves combined with Turkey's build of A Con.

Italy: F IOS-EMS, F Nap-IOS
Austria: A Tri-Ser, A Ser-Gre, A Tyl-Tri, A Gal-Bud, F Gre-AEG

If Turkey does what I expect him to do and takes Moscow, continuing to move his armies north and west, Italy and Austria will be ready to administer quite the surprise. And if Italy and Austria kick off against Turkey, that leaves absolutely no one to come and rescue you...meaning you're in for a long, grinding defence.

[Rhydderch Hael]

Some News and Notes of Previous Ventures (who said war had to be a work of sanity?)
London Times, April 2nd, 1902
Angry Puppy Forces Shutdown of Foreign Office

A small English bulldog entered the Foreign Office on Downing Street yesterday, and in a kipper-fueled fury, lay havoc upon the office of the Foreign Minister, three Ambassadorial staff rooms, and despoiled an unhung portrait of the Prime Minister. The Foreign Office will be shut down for a day as Home Guard riflemen are called in to subdue the tiny menace.

Operations are expected to resume late tomorrow or the morning after. As to whom deployed the scurrilous canine, Lord Cavendish declined to say, though he did not rule out foreign complicity.

An excerpt of the "Death Threat". Had Mycroft solve this one without interrupting his sojourn to the Digenes Club, I'm pleased to report...
Lord Cavendish,

We wish first to dissuade you of any attempt to trace the origin of this message for this might prove to be quite unpleasant for your person. Upon analysis of the ink used for this message, you would come to conclude that the subject's blood was added to a few drops of a quite virulent contact poison.

The grey vial included in the parcel is the antidote, drink it at once. It would be quite a shame if you were not to read what follows. Wash you hands -the cabinet in the back office should prove to suit your needs- and cover them. ...

...Enclosed documents are copies of letters sent by Mr. (Mean Old German Guy) and Mr. (Namby-Pamby French dude), they are under seal. You will find the envelope in the parcel. The allusion to the Czar is a lure, this fact is assured. If you wish to require our services again you will publish an article in the London Times including the written numbers : one, five, seven. We will then contact you anew. ...

... If you resign from your fonctions during this period we will make sure you will not fill any other position, ever. Additionaly, in order that you understand the secrecy of our communicaes a similar letter was sent to your wife, she will receive it at the stroke of the second hour this afternoon. There is no antidote included with this parcel. This would leave you aproximately one hour to return home and intercept the letter.

In your urgency, please do not forget to destroy this letter and all of what it contains. Do the same with future communicaes.

The Brotherhood

I have it on good authority that the ink of the letter was laced with cod liver oil, the vial a mixture of anchovy extract and cinnamon scent oil. Hopkins, our undersecretary, spent a good half hour in the India Office lavatory, washing the taste out his mouth. So calls the service of Britannia... :huh:


London Times, April 4th, 1902
Foreign Office Resumes Limited Operation

After a three day standoff between Home Guards riflemen and an overeager bulldog puppy, normal capacity operations within the Foreign Office have resumed. Efforts on part of the Home Guard bore no satisfactory results until young Emily Harols, 8 years of age, came wandering down Whitehall in search of her pet dog, Hercules. Once it was ascertained that the animal in question matched young Emily's description of her six-week old pup, she was allowed entry into the building and emerged two minutes later with the dog happily panting in her arms.

Extensive damage to the interior of the Foreign Office was recorded, but the tasks and handling of the affairs of the Foreign Minister are temporarily being conducted next door in the India Office. When asked about an assassination attempt upon the Foreign Minister, his adjuctants reported that the worst damage that little Hercules did to Lord Cavedish was effect a small tear in his trouser leg. When asked about the other attempt on his life through poison, the adjuctant dismissed the threat. "Lord Cavendish has thrown away half-cooked plates of haggis that were more deadly and potent than the ink on that letter."

Public Announcement of Germany
Dear people of Europe,

The German Nation has stood by for far too long as different factions fight for control of Europe. We declare
that Germany is about to take a more active role in Europe. We reaffirm those alliances we have already made and stuck to, in the face of unprincipled betrayals of faith, and trust that a newer, better Europe can result from this new policy of interaction in Europe.

Yours in hope,
Kaiser Wilhelm III


Public Announcement of France
People of Europe.

Despite current appearances, the French Republic has not abandoned its
commitment to peace and co-operation with the other great powers of
Europe. Our forces on the southern coast have responded to legitimate
calls from the people of Piedmonte for protection from the anarchy
appearing in neighboring Austrian (province of) Tyrolia. The armies of Italy are
occupied in African adventures and in defending more central regions of
Italy and the Piedmontese people are justifiably concerned. They have
by and large welcomed our forces and, with the exception of a few
malcontents, understand they we are there for their own protection.

As soon as order is restored to Austria and Italy is once again is a
position to defend our friends and neigbors, French forces will withdraw
from the region.

Of course until matters are more settled the action of those
aforementioned malcontents necessitate certain curfews and movement
restrictions on the civilian populace but we are sure that in
conjunction with the local plice forces, these small problems can
swiftly be brought under control.

Any concerned nations are welcome to send diplomatic missions to
observe matters "on the ground" as it were to ensure the veractiy of our
claims.

For the Republic
Louis Armand de Villiers
Department of the Exterior


Internal Note with the Commission of the Admiralty, Greenwich, England
Right, then. Enough of this diplomatic hinneytalk and soft tread dancing. Time to bash in a few skulls! Oy!

:unsure: (My British fleets appear to be under the command of soccer hooligans. God save us all.) :huh:

[Rhydderch Hael]

So, BanditAngel, how goeth the course of battle for the Ottoman Empire? Have the Minsters of the Porte fared well in directing their forces into Europe? ("The Porte" the term that comes to be synonymous with the Ottoman government, kind of like how "Capitol Hill" or "Whitehall" come to describe legislative or administrative centers of government in the US or England, respectively)

And yeah, there are mistakes being made in my game. Question is to see how far the mistakes will go, and how best to handle them (going "by the book" and anticipating the tactics of a long-term thinking opponent don't seem to be the best course for me to take)

[Rhydderch Hael]

Dangit, dangit, dangit. Why should I play conservatively to maximize my minimum gains when the enemy does not do as they best should!?

I rolled the dice and sent the London fleet to the North Sea. The German, for his part, did a smart play and attempt a block of NtS from Denmark. Had I not considered to support the London Fleet sortie with the unit stationed in the Helgoland, the German could have derailed the whole effort.

The silly thing was the failure to move a unit in Kiel or the Baltic. As luvvy-duvvy as France and Germany have been concerning the Low Countries, he should have moved the Holland or Munich army in, and send the Prussian fleet to sea.

Had I followed the prescribed course, the German would have bottled the Helgoland unit in, the Norwegian fleet would have to be withdrawn to defend StP (what lo if the German feinted and lured that fleet back into the cul-de-sac!), and the German could easily effect a retreat from Denmark into the North Sea (to tag me in the next turn!).

And France? Civic disarray. Failure to send orders.

But back at the German: I was fully expecting A Mun-Kie, F Pru-Bal, and then create a standoff in Denmark in Fall 1903, thus denying me the build and salvation from the French attack that was sure to come upon the Home island. In fact, the German could have continued the standoff in Fall 1903 with F Den-Skag, A Mun sup F Den, F Bal sup F Den and continue to hold Denmark indefinitely by denying me the chance to introduce F Nor-Skag to break the standoff! (At which point I entertain a suprise flanking on Holland)

But that plan's out the window, of course.

[Skandranon]

Hold on. So what were the '03 orders?

And France NMR'ed? I think you win.

[Rhydderch Hael]

These are a doozy...

England
F Lon - NtS
F StP (NC) - Nor
A Swe - Den
F Hel sup F London - NtS
F Liv - NAt
F Wal - Eng

France
-Civil Disorder-

Germany
F Den - NtS
F Pru - Liv
A Sil - War
A Mun sup A Sil - War (Invalid order)
A Hol holds

Austria
F Gre - Bul
A Serbia sup A Gal - Rum
A Gal - Rum
A Tri - Bud
A Tyr - Mun

Russia
-Civil Disorder-

Turkey
A Ukr sup A Galicia-Warsaw (No such move was made)
A Rum hold
A Bulg hold (disbanded)
A Con hold
F Blk hold
A Ste - Moscow

Italy
F IoS - AeS
F Nap - IoS
A Ven holds
A Apu sup A Ven hold

I know. F Nor-Stp and hope for a bounce (and if not bounced, then make an A Swe-Nor; F StP-Nor bounce to save Norway from the German fleet.
I bet on a French attack on Britain not being able to hit a Home center before the next Builds came in. And I got more than I bargained for with the French failure to cut orders.

The Austrians and Italians: it's hard to tell if that is cooperation or a desperate Italian play for Greece. But I wouldn't bet on Turkey's continued free romp through the wastes of Russia.

GM is applying the "civil disarray does not mean resource center collapse" judgement. If anyone wants to take a Russian supply center, they have to stick to it until the Fall turn.



Looking back in retrospect, if the Austrian had made A Tyr-Boh instead, he could have caused a timely panic with the Warsaw occupation. Does Austria play A Boh-Sil on the road to Berlin? Does Germany counter with A Mun-Sil to bounce? Does Austria, anticipating this and making a diplomatic feint, order A Boh-Mun instead? Or does Germany really mess up and try using the Warsaw unit and try a double bounce of A Mun-Sil; A War-Sil, with Austria then giving the order of A Boh sup A War-Sil and causing Warsaw to revert back to Russian control?

Like I said, a panic. Getting the enemy to worry about something is as valuable as actually depriving him of a resource. Muddle his priorties a bit. Spread him out a mite too thin for his own health.

[BanditAngel]

So, BanditAngel, how goeth the course of battle for the Ottoman Empire? Have the Minsters of the Porte fared well in directing their forces into Europe?

Heh, I forgot about this thread until today - Our first turns orders just got resolved, so I figured it was time to come back here and learn a bit more. Russia offered an alliance with me right off the bat, and it seemed in my best interests. I'm a bit distressed to hear that such alliances tend to end with Russia winning 80% of the time!
Since we've only had one turn, it's still hard for me to tell what the situation is.

From what my sources tell me, Austria has refused to respond to Russian and Italian messages, but they did submit orders on time. France and England are also rumored to be planning an invasion of Germany alongside Russia.

The current situation: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~cbattey/dip...acy/current.gif

[Rhydderch Hael]

Welcome to the world of Diplomacy, BanditAngel... :)

At worst, Austria gives up one of his Home centers in order to secure Greece and Serbia (hoping that his two Builds will kick the Italian out of his lands). But perhaps the guy will focus on kicking the Italian out of Trieste now, which leaves Greece on a standoff between you and Italy (it will take all three of Austria's units to evict the Italian from Trieste, thanks to the support Trieste gets from the army now sitting in Venice). Then again, the Italain needs only to order his Fleet to attack the Austrian Fleet to create a standoff and thus win Trieste (that is, if the Austrian Fleet only offers support and is not the actual attacking unit).

Bah. Rumania is yours. Austria can't take it, not while he's focused on the Italian invasion. And what is Russia going to do? Move his Fleet into it? You have two units ready to take Rumania: the army in Bulgaria and the Fleet in the Black Sea. I suggest convoying the Constantinople army to Rumania, using your army in Bulgaria for support, and capture. What is Russia going to do about it? His fleet will most likely stay in Stevastopol for the Fall turn (having bounced off Rumania as you attacked it) meaning he can't build reinforcements there. Only way Russia gets a build is to capture Sweden (and a little talk with Germany, to bounce Russia out of there, solves that problem!), and I doubt your Russian has the foresight to clear the docks of Stevastopol for an anticipated Build by moving to Armenia (and thus surrendering Rumania to you).

So, to cap it off: Austria is going to be seeing green for a while, and your can hurt Russia a bit right off the bat while gaining 2 builds for yourself. Get Germany on your side if you want to hurt Russia some more (the standoff between Germany and Russia on the Swedish issue gave me new hope in my game) and tell the German that all he needs to do to block Russian access to Sweden is by making an unsupported attack from Denmark to Sweden. He'll bounce back to Denmark, and the Russian will be stuck out on the water. No Builds for Mr. Russia this time...

I would keep an eye out on Italy, though. Your Italian is much more aggressive than my Italian, and he may try a naval attack through the Bosphorus Straits (bypassing Greece and going the little-known route of Ioninan and Eastern Mediterranen sea routes. Bet on an Italian Fleet being built in Naples, and watch out.
--------------------------------------------------

My bets as to whom moves where:

Austria: A Budapest -> Vienna, F Albania -> Greece, A Serbia supports F Albania -> Greece. This on the hope to minimize the bleeding of the Italian hit (by keeping Italy out of two Austrian core centers) and securing two Supply Centers to save himself next Spring by getting a Build in Vienna perhaps.

Italy: A Trieste holds, A Venice supports A Trieste, and either F Ionian -> Greece (if he doesn't trust you in creating a standoff with Austria over it) to keep Austria at 3 units, or he gets greedy and goes for F Ioninan -> Tunis in order to snag 2 Builds for himself while Austria might get only 1 (if Austria gets Greece).

Russia: Let's face it, the guy's stuck. F Gulf of Bothnia -> Sweden (dependant on German bounce) and F Stevastopol -> Rumania are his payoffs, and both can be blocked this turn. The Russian can try A Prussia -> Berlin, but the German army in Kiel could just go A Kiel -> Berlin and shut that down.

[Skandranon]

Firstly, you're really lucky that France failed to order. Playing unsupported to ENG while moving out of Lon was a pretty big risk, and if France had ordered at all, you might have been looking at the Convoy of Death and having to play a guessing game with London and Wales (you could order the self-bounce, but that would freeze you out of Denmark).

But, you took a risk and the gamble paid off - unexpectedly, but things happen like that sometimes. A good gamble to take.

Germany made a mistake by going to Lvn, but it's not critical. RUSSIAN F GOB will be gone next turn and going to Lvn gives him the ability to retreat Den to BAL and make your life very miserable.

Anyway, you can take Denmark this turn with your HEL fleet and arrange the self-standoff, which denies Germany a build. You could go in from NTS as well, but a forward-retreat to SKA would be hard to deal with in that case - you'd have to simultaneously cover NTS, since an unopposed F SKA-NTS would hurt very much, and support Den against a possible F SKA-Den, A Kie S F SKA-Den.

Even if you go in with the Hel fleet, there is a problem in keeping Germany from taking Den back. Once the Warsaw capture removes the GOB fleet, he'll be able to generate a 50-50 chance to take either Sweden or Denmark every turn. He'll order F GOB-Swe, A Kie-Den every turn, throwing support from F BAL (retreated from Den) randomly at one of them, forcing you to guess his support to keep your centre (and incidentally, forcing you to go into SKA).

If Austria keeps A Mun tied down, Germany probably won't leave Hol uncovered. That means you can buy a few turns with F NTS S F Den, F Den S Swe, A Swe H, F StP(nc) H. As long as the Austrian army runs rampant in the German rear, he'll have to devote at least two armies to guarding War, Ber and Mun. Hmmm. This calls for some negotiation. You're absolutely right about panic, and if you can keep the German forces spread thin, he won't make progress.

On the other side, you can pretty much stop France this turn with F NAO-MAO, F ENG H, F NTS S F ENG. No matter what he orders the Denmark build is F Lvp and you have the three-fleet stalemate. F IRI S F ENG and France is stuck no matter what he does. At that point it should be clear to him that the result of continued alliance with Germany will result in Germany getting all the builds, which should make France more...receptive. If you've stopped Germany, too, all you have to do is sit back and wait for the best offer, since if neither of them can make headway against you, then their only option is to deal.

Naturally, I rarely consider cases of serendipitous good fortune :) Should Germany vacate War he'll have put the screws on his own offensive effort for a little while. If you can bluff Germany into ordering the Sil standoff and getting Austria to order the support for War (a finesse move if ever there was one!) great, but counting on that's no good.

Turkey...! What happened to HIM? Over half his units stand there looking pathetic while Austria sinks a sword into him. I say "sword" because the attack is far too obvious to be termed a "backstab". Never heard of supporting "just in case", I see. Well, Turkey's learning the consequences of blindfolding himself in a room full of daggers. I'd gamed out some possibilities where Turkey defended properly and drove hard for a solo win, but that's all out the window now. Which only goes to show that when projecting what beginners will do, experienced players like myself can make perfectly logical assumptions which bear absolutely no relation to what they're going to do.

It looks like cooperation to me; the operative move is AUSTRIAN A Tri-Bud - moving *away* from the area of highest tension. Which means that Turkey's in a bit of a bind right now. Against experienced players he'd be in more than a bind, he'd be dead after A Apu-Smy, F IOS C A Apu-Smy, F AEG C A Apu-Smy, and A Rum-Bul, A Ser S A Rum-Bul, F Gre S A Rum-Bul. As it is he might still come out of this alive through some failure to grasp the correct tactical move on Austria's part (probably an attempt to support Rum in place), or an attempt by Italy to take Greece.

The potential Austro-Italian alliance has good points and bad points. You seem to have gotten in Austria and Italy's good graces, so it might not be such a bad thing for you. OTOH, committing against Turkey may mean that Italy won't go against France and that Austria will pull in his marauder. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out.

[BanditAngel]

Well I'm currently playing this game a bit nievely - specifically I'm trusting that Russia is honest about the alliance we've got. They've asked me to help attack Germany, and are willing to aid me in taking Rumania and Galacia if I cooperate. With Austria being crushed by the Italians and the Russians as allies I seem to be in a fairly good position, at least short term.

Russia tells me that England and France are both going to support an action agains't Germany, and England has sent me a message confirming this. Therefor I'd say it's fairly inevitable that Germany is going to fall, and Austria too. Russia seems sincere for now at least, so I'm inclined to trust them and focus my attention on the Italians.

I'm not really sure what to expect out of France and England, since geographically and diplomatically I'm seperated from them. Watching your game is helping a fair bit, but your Russia collapsed while mine is working with England to crush Germany so the situation is fairly different.

[Rhydderch Hael]

... Turkey...!&nbsp; What happened to HIM?&nbsp; Over half his units stand there looking pathetic while Austria sinks a sword into him.&nbsp; I say "sword" because the attack is far too obvious to be termed a "backstab".&nbsp; Never heard of supporting "just in case", I see.&nbsp; Well, Turkey's learning the consequences of blindfolding himself in a room full of daggers.&nbsp; I'd gamed out some possibilities where Turkey defended properly and drove hard for a solo win, but that's all out the window now.&nbsp; Which only goes to show that when projecting what beginners will do, experienced players like myself can make perfectly logical assumptions which bear absolutely no relation to what they're going to do.

It looks like cooperation to me; the operative move is AUSTRIAN A Tri-Bud - moving *away* from the area of highest tension.&nbsp; Which means that Turkey's in a bit of a bind right now.&nbsp; Against experienced players he'd be in more than a bind, he'd be dead after A Apu-Smy, F IOS C A Apu-Smy, F AEG C A Apu-Smy, and A Rum-Bul, A Ser S A Rum-Bul, F Gre S A Rum-Bul.&nbsp; As it is he might still come out of this alive through some failure to grasp the correct tactical move on Austria's part (probably an attempt to support Rum in place), or an attempt by Italy to take Greece. ...

Turkey's sword in the gut is all the more politically painful given that he was offering support to Austria to take Warsaw from the German. :D But all in all, I agree to the layout: Germany is going to have enough trouble tangling with the English fleets (and given past orders and tactics, you can pretty much count of him retreating the Denmark fleet to the Skag instead of the craftier play on the Baltic). And Turkey seriously needs tobe kept from rampaging freely across the lands. Austria (and now Italy) can see to that.

I've already detailed to Austria the plan of attack he may table to Italy against Turkey. At least it keeps the Russian frontier looking a bit more like a No-Man's Land rather than Turkey's playground.

[Rhydderch Hael]

Well I'm currently playing this game a bit nievely - specifically I'm trusting that Russia is honest about the alliance we've got. They've asked me to help attack Germany, and are willing to aid me in taking Rumania and Galacia if I cooperate. With Austria being crushed by the Italians and the Russians as allies I seem to be in a fairly good position, at least short term.

Russia tells me that England and France are both going to support an action agains't Germany, and England has sent me a message confirming this. Therefor I'd say it's fairly inevitable that Germany is going to fall, and Austria too. Russia seems sincere for now at least, so I'm inclined to trust them and focus my attention on the Italians.

I'm not really sure what to expect out of France and England, since geographically and diplomatically I'm seperated from them. Watching your game is helping a fair bit, but your Russia collapsed while mine is working with England to crush Germany so the situation is fairly different.

Aye. You can play most honorably and build a reputation for sticking close in alliances. But there's something to be said for being a greedy, trecherous son of a gun! As long as it ensures your continued future.

There are two constants in the art of diplomacy: 1) a gift is never free, and if a nation offers you something, it only comes with the understanding that they get something good for themselves, too. 2) someone who offers help is someone in great need themselves. The Art of Diplomacy is the fine art of begging to a gold-bound coffer—to be a beggar while looking like a philanthropist.


And there's something to be said about the adage, "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer..." A nation or two who are geographically seperated from you have no direct interests in your downfall. On the contrary, they may value your isolation in that your two camps can expand without conflict, and can influence the pressures of all nations between you.

[Skandranon]

The Juggernaut is indeed a powerful alliance. However, do note that the 80% stat for Russian wins is if both sides go through with it faithfully and never attack the other. I've got a little story about a Juggernaut, actually.

In a game where I played Turkey, I offered a Juggernaut to the Russian, who (presumably cackling with glee) accepted. Of course, I played the Crimean Crusher, A Con-Bul, A Smy-Arm, F Ank-BLA. The Russian, who opened F Sev-Rum, A Mos-StP-, A War-Gal (bounced by Austria) and F StP(sc)-GoB, was caught flatfooted, and naturally begged me not to take Sev. Always talking with everyone, even the freshly stabbed, I negotiated a compromise and played A Arm-Rum, F BLA C A Arm-Rum, A Bul S A Arm-Rum, while the Russian withdrew to Sev and brought A War-Ukr in, letting Austria into Gal. I then informed him that now that I had Rum, I felt safe and we could go on. I built A Con and F Smy and Russia was satisfied.

Spring '02 rolls around. Russia opens his E-mail, sees that he still can't get into Norway. And right below his own orders of A Ukr-War (guarding vs. Austria, even though Austria went to Vie) and F Sev H:

TURKEY
A Bul-Sev
F BLA C A Bul-Sev
A Rum S A Bul-Sev
A Con-Bul
F Smy-AEG

He screamed, he yelled, he sent a mostly unprintable message. I ignored it and asked him if he'd like support to Gal. I told him that now that he no longer had a southern fleet, I felt safe. He called me a dirty lying bastard. I told him I was ordering the support to Gal no matter what he said.

He took it.

For the rest of the game we were, if not exactly amicably, allied. I occupied Sev with my F BLA so he wouldn't worry about a stab into MOS, and stormed the Balkans, giving Russia Vie as a kick start. He negotiated aid from England and got Swe and Den, picked up Ber and Mun two turns later, then built F StP(nc) and stabbed England for Norway and Kiel, as part of a coordinated attack with France. Then England took Denmark back and stole Sweden, with Russia's fleets out of position to get it back. While they were wrangling over Scandinavia I finished off Italy and threw a lifeline to England. France was too far out of position (on the British Isles!) to counter, and so Marseilles, Spain and Portugal went up on the SC list as #15, #16, and #17. Russia was still throwing units at Sweden and Denmark when I stabbed him and took Vie for #18.

Russia did end up in second place, though. He had 8 centres, and would have had 11 if not for England stopping his drive for Holland and then taking Denmark and Sweden. However, he was unmistakably the junior partner. I probably wouldn't have been able to get away with it if England had decided to let Russia burn in the early game, but when England accepted Russia's help and offered four centres, Russia had enough to distract it and be my buffer long enough for me to drive through Italy and Austria. It was helped somewhat by the fact that neither of them could figure out whether I was allied to Russia or not and got into a scrap in the meantime. By the time Austria got himself untangled from Venice to try for a unified defence, I was in Trieste, the Adriatic, the Aegean, and Eastern Med.

In summary: if you want a Juggernaut to work for you, get Rum by hook or by crook at the least, and at least make him hold an army in Sev if you can't get it. (Fleets built in Sevastopol are the classic Juggernaut stab). And stay in charge. I was convincing England to let Russia help him, basically giving Russia enough success to keep him interested while not allowing him enough to be a threat. It isn't easy. But it's doable.

I have another, much shorter story about a Juggernaut. I was Turkey and it was my second e-mail game. Russia offered a Juggernaut. I was a good little ally and didn't stab him. In a season where he had two builds and I had none, he built F Sev, A Mos and convoyed to Constantinople in the Fall. Ankara and Smyrna fell in the next year and it was game over for me.

In your game, you have a GOLDEN situation for Turkey - a Russia involved in the North, Austria and Italy at each other's throats. Absolutely convoy Constantinople to Rumania with support. Austria, if wise, will be going for Greece and supporting himself in. If he's stupid, he'll go into Trieste with two supports (the Italian army will simply retreat to Vienna!) Either way he won't dispute Rum. Then you can take Sevastopol with your fleet and offer truce. Austria and Italy are fighting it out and so you can just roll up the Balkans.

Diplomatically, it might not be a bad idea to have Germany give Russia the build on the condition that Russia builds F StP(nc) and helps Germany against England. The openings of the English and French are clearly against Germany (and you can point that out, several times). Then, when you offer truce after taking Sev, Russia might see it as a front he doesn't need to worry about, especially with the promise of more builds in the North. I think it's important to note that what you don't want is the situation in the north sorting itself out quickly. You want fighting, lots of it, and you want Russia heavily committed, because it lets you pick up the scraps of the Austro-Italian war. Unfortunately, due to Russia's horrendous opening, he may want to get his piece of Germany, which means that the north will sort itself out rather quicker than you'd like.

Turkey's often a dead-end country, stuck on four or five units for most of the game. But you've got a chance to really let Turkey shine :)

EDIT: Typo hunt!

[Skandranon]

Well I'm currently playing this game a bit nievely - specifically I'm trusting that Russia is honest about the alliance we've got. They've asked me to help attack Germany, and are willing to aid me in taking Rumania and Galacia if I cooperate. With Austria being crushed by the Italians and the Russians as allies I seem to be in a fairly good position, at least short term.

Russia tells me that England and France are both going to support an action agains't Germany, and England has sent me a message confirming this. Therefor I'd say it's fairly inevitable that Germany is going to fall, and Austria too. Russia seems sincere for now at least, so I'm inclined to trust them and focus my attention on the Italians.

I'm not really sure what to expect out of France and England, since geographically and diplomatically I'm seperated from them. Watching your game is helping a fair bit, but your Russia collapsed while mine is working with England to crush Germany so the situation is fairly different.

It's not a bad idea to assume that Russia's honest about the alliance, especially one so much in favour of him as this one is. But keep in mind that agreeing to the alliance is in Russia's favour, not yours. He owes you.

That said, he's probably absolutely sincere about the alliance - for three or four years, at least. He's got a knife with your name on it. Take advantage of the first two years of his sincerity and grab the centres Austria can't keep - Serbia, Greece, maybe even Budapest.

France and England are your two most important diplomatic contacts right now, with a collapse of Germany and a virtual collapse of Austria on the horizon. You want them to go to war, England on Russia, France on Italy. Again, with Austria's timer ticking, you have to move fast, because Russia/Italy is one of the strongest alliances on the board, and after Austria, their natural target is...you.