Some Unique Questions in Two Parts

[Mick]

Part One:
"Eaglehorn!"
"No, Windforce!"
"No, Eaglehorn!"
"No, Windforce!"

And so it went in several threads on the DSF when I was reading there. What's odd is that my memory has failed to retain any of the substantiation or reasoning in those threads.

I always enjoyed playing with Windforce and didn't find the knockback difficult to handle, and in fact a great boon. I remember that I thought Eaglehorn had generally good attributes, but never was that impressed with it. Having just picked it up twice in successive days doing Laz runs I'm trying to figure out why it's supposed to be so damn good. Anyone?

(FWIW, I currently have an Obsidian Long War Bow of the Stars and easily prefer it to the Eaglehorn, although I kept one as my backup).

Part Two:
I was actually doing those Laz runs hoping for a Royal Circlet. No such luck. (Two Eaglehorns is presumably lucky, but it just wasn't the luck I wanted). On the extremely good side I picked up a Stormshield. Yeehaa! Always loved this shield. Just one teensy problem, what to use with it?

I lost Schaefer's Hammer and The Grandfather some time ago. I'll hope for a CC or one-handed KSoH while doing Laz runs but in the meantime I have two other one-handers: Gnarled Root and Wizardspike. Gnarled Root: good damage, a bit of TH, lowers AC a little. Wizardspike: a bit of TH, lousy damage, very handy Mana Shield addition, doesn't lower AC. IIRC, WS adds better resists.

When equipment-swapping to check stats the WS looks better; better resists, better AC, bigger Mana Shield. GR has much better damage though. But having tried both, albeit briefly, I'm confused. GR seems to swing faster and I seem to be blocking more when it's equipped.

Maybe it was just luck of the ten or fifteen little combats I tried with each that I got this impression, but it seemed consistent. I tried one-on-one, I tried mixed monsters, I tried swarming hordes. Should GR swing faster than WS? Is there some attribute of either WS or GR which would affect the fastblock of a Stormshield?

And if you were playing a Rogue which would you prefer to use, and why? If you want to suit that answer to my character - w/ Stormshield, Thinking Cap, High AC, MS and magic using. Umm, yeah I know TC and High AC don't sound quite natural together but SS is 40 and my armour is 140ish% on 74 so the AC is pretty high even with TC taking up potential, about 260 or 270 I think.

[In case this is all in Jarulf's Guide, I'm - again - having trouble in that direction. I can get to the website but all the text in the index window shows up in about .7 of a point, ie completely illegible and sometimes unclickable. We'll see.]

Mick.

[Phredreeke]

Now, I assume you are playing a rogue, considering you play with a bow. GR adds to dexterity, making you block more. Note that the damage bonus on GR only applies to the weapon's damage, not your character damage, still that's 3-20 more damage. The CC +200% to demon bonus applies to both character and weapon damage. Both GR and WS should have the same swing speed though, though GR should hit more due to the Dex bonus.

[Disaster(IB)]

IIRC, Maces swing a little bit faster than swords. The easier way to know if it is so, is to check it in Jarulf :D
But basically, swords give you bigger range (maybe it seems stupid, but it works - with a sword you can hit a monster from bigger distance, if the monster is across from you).
Generally, both of these items [WS and GR] are not a dream weapons, either for a Warrior and Rogue :D If you're playing a Rogue, it's definitely better to use a bow. And again, WF is not really the best one. IMHO, any +%DMG Bow of Swiftness will be better. Fast attack is really very important. But bows of this kind are veeery hard to find :D So I think that WF will be the best choice of listed items for a Rogue :D

[LennyLen]

IIRC, Maces swing a little bit faster than swords. The easier way to know if it is so, is to check it in Jarulf

Without even looking at JG, I can tell you right now, that they have the exact same seing speed. And the Gnarled Root does not have any speed modifiers.

But basically, swords give you bigger range (maybe it seems stupid, but it works - with a sword you can hit a monster from bigger distance, if the monster is across from you).

There is absolutely no validity to this statement whatsoever. The game engine has no concept of 'weapon length' at all. All melee weapons are treated the same in regard to how far away they can reach.

[Disaster(IB)]

Without even looking at JG, I can tell you right now, that they have the exact same seing speed. And the Gnarled Root does not have any speed modifiers.

I think I read about it in some guide, other than Jarulf :D Anyway, there was a time, when Warriors were playing duels with flails, because they thought that flails are faster. I only remembered that, and that is why i wrote that...

There is absolutely no validity to this statement whatsoever. The game engine has no concept of 'weapon length' at all. All melee weapons are treated the same in regard to how far away they can reach.

Maybe that was only my friends' feeling, thay when dueling, they could hit each others from further distance... And no actual proof of that. So OK, my mistake :D

[Mick]

Phredreeke, thanks for pointing out what should have been obvious to me! Doh, yes - the Gnarled Root does, of course, have +Dex.

Disaster, thanks for your comments. I've never found damage and speed of attack the best use of affix slots with a bow but maybe I'll try fooling around with a +%DMG Bow of Swiftness again. Certainly Rogues are basically predisposed to bow but they can use melee as well - I'm not a great player but with a fastblock shield I can comfortably melee through Nightmare/Hell and up to Hell/Caves (gets difficult there) with a little help from Mana Shield and Stone Curse. If you want to see more on playing Rogue as more than an archer start with Claudio's CAT guide -
http://www.claudiospage.com/cat-guid.htm

Mick.

(Edit: added link)

[Cytrex]

The keywords here are "thought" and "feeling" ;). I can assure you that LennyLen is right - your friends observances may be so because there is often extreme desync(especially in PvP). That leads to false conclusions rather fast.

[LemmingofGlory]

I remember that I thought Eaglehorn had generally good attributes, but never was that impressed with it. Having just picked it up twice in successive days doing Laz runs I'm trying to figure out why it's supposed to be so damn good. Anyone?

I believe conventional wisdom has been that Eaglehorn sucks for Rogues. ToHit bonus not really necessary. It's been argued +Damage%, when compared to a resistance bow, doesn't substantially reduce the number of hits to kill a given monster. This leaves +20 Dex and Indestructible, and neither affix makes or breaks a bow (figuratively speaking).

I lost Schaefer's Hammer and The Grandfather some time ago.

Why were you carrying them around in the first place? Schaefer's is nothing to write home about. Grandfather is so bad it barely qualifies as ornamental.

I'll hope for a CC or one-handed KSoH while doing Laz runs but in the meantime I have two other one-handers: Gnarled Root and Wizardspike.

You'll have very bad luck finding CC if you hope it to pop up during Laz runs. It can drop from certain hell monsters, but none of the bosses.

Gnarled Root: good damage, a bit of TH, lowers AC a little. Wizardspike: a bit of TH, lousy damage, very handy Mana Shield addition, doesn't lower AC. IIRC, WS adds better resists.

Er, are you comparing them as channeling weapons or melee weapons? I'd never compare them on either level. Wizzy's a mini-DF, and Gnarled Root is mostly useful to very young characters. You've been told:

Phredreeke
GR adds to dexterity, making you block more.  ... GR should hit more due to the Dex bonus.

GR's dex bonus provides 5% ToHit plus its built-in 20%: 25% total. That's the same as Wizardspike's +25% bonus. But with respect to blocking, a Rogue should have enough natural dex that this doesn't matter.

And if you were playing a Rogue which would you prefer to use, and why?

That's like asking whether we'd use Dreamflange or The Bonesaw. They have completely different uses. If you want to channel spells, go Wizardspike. If you want to hit things, I suppose Gnarled Root will have to do, but keep an eye out for a more suitable melee weapon.

In case this is all in Jarulf's Guide, I'm - again - having trouble in that direction. I can get to the website but all the text in the index window shows up in about .7 of a point, ie completely illegible and sometimes unclickable. We'll see.

Try downloading it instead.

[o: *LEMMING* :o]

[the Langolier]

Fast attack [swiftness] is really very important. But bows of this kind are veeery hard to find

I find it very unimportant. The normal attack speed of a rogue is as fast as a warrior with a sword of haste, which is fast enough to stun lock mage type enemies, which is really all the speed you need. Anything faster is alright, but I prefer more useful affixes on my bow, namely +resist all / +all stats.

[Mick]

Thanks for your reply, Lemming.

I was carrying Schaefer's and Grandfather simply because I picked them up and wanted to try them. Grandfather seems better than lousy IMO, but certainly not a top flight weapon. I see what you mean about comparing GR and WS - their advantages are so different tbat they're not really comparable.

Mick.

[Xron]

Without even looking at JG, I can tell you right now, that they have the exact same seing speed.  And the Gnarled Root does not have any speed modifiers.



There is absolutely no validity to this statement whatsoever.  The game engine has no concept of 'weapon length' at all.  All melee weapons are treated the same in regard to how far away they can reach.

What are the best weapons,armour,rings,amulets,and helms? :huh: :ph34r: :unsure:

[LennyLen]

Without even looking at JG, I can tell you right now, that they have the exact same seing speed.  And the Gnarled Root does not have any speed modifiers.



There is absolutely no validity to this statement whatsoever.  The game engine has no concept of 'weapon length' at all.  All melee weapons are treated the same in regard to how far away they can reach.

What are the best weapons,armour,rings,amulets,and helms? :huh: :ph34r: :unsure:

Best is an extremely subjective term. Can you be more specific?

[Phredreeke]

What are the best weapons,armour,rings,amulets,and helms? :huh:  :ph34r:  :unsure:

As Lenny said, it's a subjective matter. For Melée Weapons, I'd say King's Sword of Haste/Speed, King's Sword of Vampires or Civerb's Cudgel. The King's prefix is the highest %damage/to-hit adder. The damage only applies to weapon damage though, so at best it gives a 10,5 to 26,25 damage boost (for a Bastard Sword, the strongest one handed sword). To-hit is vital for a Warrior, but the Rogue already have a very high to-hit due to high dexterity, and Sorcerers can Stone Curse enemies, nullifying their AC.

of Haste/Speed lowers the time taken to swing your weapon by 0.10 seconds. of Vampires steals mana, useful for Warriors and Rogues to build up their mana, Sorcerers already have alot of mana, and deals too little damage for it to be of use anyway. CC deals triple damage against demons, which most of the enemies in Hell are.

I'm too tired to ramble on right now, feel free to fill me in on the rest if you wish.