New car for me this weekend.

[FireIceTalon]

So I've been actually needing a new car for a while now, and had planned to buy one later this year. I recently got a new job with full benefits and union membership and was going to save up for a nice down payment, but it was not to be.

I've been driving a 2003 PT Cruiser for the last 13 years or so. It certainly isn't a great car in terms of looks, overall quality, gas mileage, interior space, nor is it exactly a "smooth drive". It did its job however, of getting me from point A to point B. I was starting to put alot of money into it in the last couple years though, as the car was aging and it isn't a great car to begin with.

Long story short, last Thursday I'm driving on the highway on my way to work, and suddenly the engine light comes. Almost immediately, the car begins to decelerate. I'm doing roughly 65 but my speed is dropping quickly even as I continue to push the gas to no avail. So I pull off to the side of the road, turn the engine off/flashers on, and wait a few moments. I try to restart the car, but no such luck. Wife comes to pick me up and and take me to work, while we have the car towed to a repair shop and see what the damage is.

My wife texts me a few hours later, and informs me the timing belt is busted and its $700 to repair, which is worth as much or more than the car itself. Not happening.

So this weekend we went auto shopping. I've had small cars most of my life and wanted an SUV. The last couple years I've done quite a bit of research to narrow my choices down to which one I was going to get. It came down to either a Toyota Rav4, a Kia Sportage, or Nissan Rogue.

I chose the Sportage - it's the least expensive of the bunch at equal trim levels, has the highest safety ratings, the most stylish interior (and exterior too, actually), drives the smoothest, and Kia's 10 year/100k mile warranty is next to unbeatable. The gas mileage is only so so for a compact SUV, but its still MUCH better than the ol' PT Cruiser. So after much negotiating and getting some strings pulled, I managed to get a pretty nice deal on a BRAND NEW one! It was hard, because even though I have good credit, I was only able to put $3000 down (on a $22,000 vehicle) and I've only been at my current place of employment a month, so many lenders figured me to be a risk. I didn't quite get the interest rate I wanted, but I did manage to get about 6k knocked off the MSRP (originally 27K, but it was on sale for 24, then down to 22 after rebates, and then I managed to talk them down to 21) and to keep my payment at $358 a month (I was hoping to not have to go too much higher than 350, so it worked out).

It came a little earlier than I wanted, but needless to say I am absolutely stoked. This thing is a beauty, and it drives absolutely wonderful. It feels nice to be in a bigger more spacious vehicle - and a brand new 2018 one at that.

[GhastMaster]

Why didn't you pay $3000 for a car you can afford, and then save up with the new job $$$?

I've been tempted to buy new in the past but couldn't justify spending a years income for some on a vehicle that I spend 20 minutes a day in. Rode my bike to work and ubered on rainy days for almost a year until I found a $1100 deal. When I started driving I was able to listen to Dave Ramsey again!

I decided a couple of years ago to never get loans. Too much risk, too much headache; for individuals and society.

Easy money will collapse the global economy again soon. In the meantime it is driving up prices on everything.

Imagine what the price of a house would be if people saved the money and had to see their bank account depleted when they make a purchase. It is really easy to sign a paper and get a house rather than hand over a large sum of hard earned money up front.

[kandrathe]

Congrats! It looks very nice.

I've sworn off buying absolutely new cars just on the "bang for buck" principle. I usually aim for a slightly used car with about 10-20K miles on it.

I'm hoping my next vehicle will be electric if

• the prices come down under $30K,
• fits my commute range (100+ miles RT) ,
• works in the hostile climate here,
• and I can find one as I mentioned, slightly used.

[Taem]

I usually get a certified used between 25k-30k miles, older year the better, preferably 3-5yr old. That alone knocks an easy $8k off the msrp for a relatively newish vehicle. In addition, car lots are eager to ditch these older cars in favor of the newer year cars coming in, so lots of room to haggle. And don't forget, the dealership will always ask you how much you want to pay per month, always. Don't go that route; they will skew the numbers to meet your goals in their favor and you may end up paying a higher apr for longer. Remember, there are three separate deals to be made, all independent contracts; how much they will accept your trade in for, how much they will settle for the car, and from their banker, what apr they will give you. On that last one, I always go into my credit union and get pre approved for the lowest apr before going to the dealer so we can skip the whole run-around and talk business. Just my 2-cents.

[LavCat]

I haven't had a vehicle since 1991.

[FireIceTalon]

Why didn't you pay $3000 for a car you can afford, and then save up with the new job $$$?

Because I can in fact, afford it. I did consider purchasing a used one, but decided against it in the end for a few reasons.

1. The KIA warranty of 100k miles/10 years is the best on the market. However, that warranty only applies to new vehicles - it unfortunately doesn't transfer over to used vehicles. Sure, I could have purchased a different make w/o having to worry about the warranty, but doing much research, my wife being very happy with her Kia Soul, and with test driving the Sportage, I knew this was the vehicle for me.

2. I have never owned a new vehicle before, and really wanted one this time.

3. It could just be my paranoia from previous bad experiences, but I am afraid whenever I buy a used vehicle, that I am buying some other persons previous "problem". It's probably an unwarranted/irrational fear, but after my last car and all the problems it had, I can't help but feel this way.

4. Finally, the inventory for used Sportages (at least in my area) is very, very low. In fact, the used inventory for most Kia's in general, in my area, is quite limited. Kia makes really good cars now that are relatively affordable, so the owners tend to hold on to them, thus making the supply of used Kia vehicles limited.

Sure, having a higher down payment would have been more ideal, but life happens.

I decided a couple of years ago to never get loans. Too much risk, too much headache; for individuals and society.

I can certainly understand not wanting a car payment (I have to admit, that not having a car loan for the last 10+ years was awesome), but me and my wife are now making enough that we can afford another car payment. And I got the car I wanted, brand spankin' new, in nearly the color I wanted (mineral silver, which was my second choice after the dark metallic grey, followed by black as my 3rd choice), for a GREAT price, so having a car payment will be worth it to me. Plus, I drive 22 miles each way to work, so its highly important I have a good, reliable working vehicle. With a new car, I have that peace of mind. And, it will be an awesome vehicle for when me and the wife take vacations or road trips :-)

@Kandrathe, thanks. 100 miles round trip you drive to work?? Yikes. That's....ALOT.

Man, driving to and from work today, I was on auto pilot :-D When my wife bought her Kia Soul new back in 2016, she had "buyers remorse" afterward, as some people do after making a major purchase. This didn't happen with me though - I am stoked to be in a new vehicle, and a very nice one at that.

[Taem]

2. I have never owned a new vehicle before, and really wanted one this time.

As good a reason as any. Quality of life. Good for you my friend.

3. It could just be my paranoia from previous bad experiences, but I am afraid whenever I buy a used vehicle, that I am buying some other persons previous "problem". It's probably an unwarranted/irrational fear, but after my last car and all the problems it had, I can't help but feel this way.

Not paranoia. I always buy certified preowned from a renown dealer to limit my potential liabilities due to just this experience. I wanted to add to this that every America car I've ever owned (two Ford Mustangs, one Chevy Avalanche, one Chevy Silverado) has had problems within 2-years, but every foreign car I've ever owned (Datson, Toyota Sienna, Toyota Echo, Toyota Prius) has gone the distance 5+ without a hitch. This is obviously between two people (myself and my ex), as I have not lived that long to drive that many cars myself. Anyway, just saying good call on buying foreign.

[FireIceTalon]

^^Totally agree. American cars, usually, are pretty bad. Maybe if you are buying a truck or muscle type car, American makes aren't a bad choice, but for almost everything else....Japanese, Korean, and German makes are usually superior and last longer.

Toyota is nearly synonymous with "reliable" and has one of the strongest lineups of vehicles ever, though they are a bit pricey nowadays. I was originally going to get a Rav4, but for this years incarnation at least, the Sportage seems to be the slightly better (and slightly less expensive) car. The Sportage also felt like a slightly smoother drive to me, in particular during turns. Would take either one over any American made SUV though, easily.

It is pretty extraordinary how far Korean cars have come. In the early 2000's, they were kind of a laughing stock. But now, they generally make very good vehicles. Most of Kia's lineup is at or near the top of their respective classes, or at least comparable with most other makes on the market. Hyundai, to a lesser extent, seems solid now as well.

The Nissan Rogue and Honda CRV also seem to be good compact SUV's comparable to the Rav4 or the Sportage in the reviews I've read, though I never got a chance to drive those.

If money was no object, I would probably have gone even bigger with a mid-sized, 3-row SUV.....such as the Toyota Highlander or the Kia Sorento, but these are well out of my price range lol.

[DeeBye]

It came down to either a Toyota Rav4, a Kia Sportage, or Nissan Rogue.

My wife was looking at those, but decided on a Subaru Crosstrek. Snowy Canadian winters and all.

I'm happy you didn't spell it "Rouge".

[FireIceTalon]

In terms of quality and reliability, Subaru is up there. Almost everyone I know who has owned one has never had any glaring issues even after several years, if ever. Aesthetically speaking, most of them aren't really my cup of tea (the Forester is ok). I prefer the more sporty, aggressive look of the Honda CRV, Rav4, or my Sportage, but vehicle style is completely subjective.

[GhastMaster]

Because I can in fact, afford it. I did consider purchasing a used one, but decided against it in the end for a few reasons.

1. The KIA warranty of 100k miles/10 years is the best on the market. However, that warranty only applies to new vehicles - it unfortunately doesn't transfer over to used vehicles. Sure, I could have purchased a different make w/o having to worry about the warranty, but doing much research, my wife being very happy with her Kia Soul, and with test driving the Sportage, I knew this was the vehicle for me.

2. I have never owned a new vehicle before, and really wanted one this time.

3. It could just be my paranoia from previous bad experiences, but I am afraid whenever I buy a used vehicle, that I am buying some other persons previous "problem". It's probably an unwarranted/irrational fear, but after my last car and all the problems it had, I can't help but feel this way.

4. Finally, the inventory for used Sportages (at least in my area) is very, very low. In fact, the used inventory for most Kia's in general, in my area, is quite limited. Kia makes really good cars now that are relatively affordable, so the owners tend to hold on to them, thus making the supply of used Kia vehicles limited.

Sure, having a higher down payment would have been more ideal, but life happens.

I'll assume for the time being that you did not get a loan in lieu of paying cash just because you like loans.

I thought getting a loan meant a person could not afford something. Hence, when you "purchase" a car with a bank loan, they have a lien on the title. You can afford payments, but who knows what your future brings.

Answers #1 & #3 are basically the same. #1, #3 are cash flow issues. You needed a loan because you did not have the cash to alleviate your concerns. In scenario #1 the cost burden is up front and priced into a new vehicle which is easier to finance. Regarding #3 you essentially warranty a used vehicle yourself with cash in the bank. #4 is a great answer if you have cash. The over leveraged, easy money market has made it too easy to buy a new vehicle though.

I can certainly understand not wanting a car payment (I have to admit, that not having a car loan for the last 10+ years was awesome), but me and my wife are now making enough that we can afford another car payment. And I got the car I wanted, brand spankin' new, in nearly the color I wanted (mineral silver, which was my second choice after the dark metallic grey, followed by black as my 3rd choice), for a GREAT price, so having a car payment will be worth it to me. Plus, I drive 22 miles each way to work, so its highly important I have a good, reliable working vehicle. With a new car, I have that peace of mind. And, it will be an awesome vehicle for when me and the wife take vacations or road trips :-)

@Kandrathe, thanks. 100 miles round trip you drive to work?? Yikes. That's....ALOT.

Man, driving to and from work today, I was on auto pilot :-D When my wife bought her Kia Soul new back in 2016, she had "buyers remorse" afterward, as some people do after making a major purchase. This didn't happen with me though - I am stoked to be in a new vehicle, and a very nice one at that.

Two car payments? Why in the world would you put yourself at such a risk? Did you not learn anything from the crash of 2008? So many people lost jobs. When that was gone they lost their car and their house. That's not such a huge problem when you pay cash for everything. When paying cash you can mitigate income loss by selling assets.

As good a reason as any. Quality of life. Good for you my friend.

#2 was the worst answer of them all. "Really needed" would have made slightly more sense. I'm to the point now that I don not see cars when I drive down the street. I see loans driving down the street. So many people are over their heads in loans. Purchases like this make me sad. I'm not mad nor do I think less of FIT or anyone who does this. It just makes me sad to see a whole country misguided by government(subsidized loans), banks, and federal reserve(low interest rates). We are encouraged by parties on all sides to make large financial decisions that have led to individual and societal disaster. The same mentality is taking us there again.

I haven't had a vehicle since 1991.

Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

In terms of quality and reliability, Subaru is up there. Almost everyone I know who has owned one has never had any glaring issues even after several years, if ever. Aesthetically speaking, most of them aren't really my cup of tea (the Forester is ok). I prefer the more sporty, aggressive look of the Honda CRV, Rav4, or my Sportage, but vehicle style is completely subjective.

I agree with your opinions on Subaru. I know one person who has a newer model that has not had any issues either. I have a 2001 Hyundai Sonata 6cyl. I did not realize Hyundai was selling cars in the U.S. prior to the 2000's until I read the wikipedia article. They had fixed the reliability issues by the 2000's. I did not realize this back then. The reputation was still bad.

[FireIceTalon]

So you are able to pay cash for everything, or at least for most "major" purchases, such as an automobile, a house, or even some furniture or appliances? Damn. It must be nice.

For most of us though, that isn't really an option. Even assuming if my car didn't break down last week, and I was able to save up some money for a higher down payment at my job, I would still have a car payment regardless once I entered the market to get a new (or used) vehicle even if I got into something cheaper temporarily. Saving up to pay all cash for a nice car would be virtually impossible for me, at least in any reasonable amount of time. The only difference really is that the inevitable came sooner rather than later. Not to mention that in the meantime, I would have to make too many sacrifices in quality of life in other areas to do this. Not worth it - I'd rather have the higher car payment and nice vehicle and still be able to afford do other things than spend who knows how many years trying to save up cash for a car.

[kandrathe]

@Kandrathe, thanks. 100 miles round trip you drive to work?? Yikes. That's....ALOT.

One of the issues of living in a metropolis is that often the new *BEST* job is not near where you live, and moving from house to house is expensive and exhausting.

Because of my values, skill set and demeanor, I usually end up working for a non-profit and one of Top Workplaces in the Twin Cities. Which means I usually tolerate only reasonable non-fascist employers who understand that it's not only about sticks, you also need some carrots. A big one for me is the flexibility to work from my home office on bad commute days, or when my kids are sick, or if I just feel like it. I reciprocate by being professional in scheduling meetings and showing up, on time, and I don't waste anybody's time.

A couple recent addendums to our departmental social contract are "If at all possible absolutely no meetings after 4pm or on Friday."

But, not to derail the talk on vehicles... My current commuter is a 2013 Kia Forte. I like Kia. I do a lot of research on bang/buck to determine maximal utility, reliability, and quality of life during the commute (noise, amenities).

I'm not faulting your choices as they are your choices. My one and only foray into a brand new vehicle was a fully loaded Nissan Pathfinder (SUV). I leased it (in order to afford the payment), fully intending and planning on buying it from them, so I didn't fret about the mileage limits.



My experience was overall good, but I ended up leasing for three years and then having a four year loan. In the bang/buck analysis it was a fairly frivolous purchase. My reasons were like yours, I never had one, and I was raking in a fortune 500 executive salary.

I know for me now, as different from many of my friends, I don't care about many of the "prestige" aspects since I sort of look as it as a utilitarian object, like a disposable razor. I don't name it, or dress it up pretty with fancy detail kits.

Like I never would be tempted to spend $10,000 on aftermarket kits and customization, like...

[LavCat]

I haven't had a vehicle since 1991.

Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

It's not a good thing or a bad thing. It is a thing. I've had two vehicles in my life, both brand new and both paid with cash.

[Occhidiangela]

Grats on the new car. We got my wife a 2014 RAV 4 and are pleased as punch with it. That Kia you chose is a comparable value. In the last 6 years, I've noticed that Kia and Hyundai have both been improving their quality standard; plenty of folks where I work are making Kia or Hyundai the choice in new cars (I work mostly with engineers).

Drive safe and enjoy.

[Taem]

#2 was the worst answer of them all. "Really needed" would have made slightly more sense. I'm to the point now that I don not see cars when I drive down the street. I see loans driving down the street.

My ex got breast enhancement and liposuction surgery. She felt proud of herself for the first time in a long time and even to this day, it really had a profound effect on her psyche. And I was happy for her. You only live *this* life once, so if something will bring such a positive change in your life for the rest of your life, you can't take that money with you to the grave, and your nor getting out of this life alive, so I say its okay to treat yourself to some debt every once in awhile. Take care.

[DeeBye]

In terms of quality and reliability, Subaru is up there. Almost everyone I know who has owned one has never had any glaring issues even after several years, if ever.

I can attest to this. I drive a 2014 Subaru Impreza, and my wife drives a 2014 Subaru Crosstrek. I've never had a problem with my Impreza, and my wife's Crosstrek only had a faulty something-sensor that had to be replaced (which was under warranty).

I am an unabashed Subaru fanboi.

[eppie]

#2 was the worst answer of them all. "Really needed" would have made slightly more sense. I'm to the point now that I don not see cars when I drive down the street. I see loans driving down the street. So many people are over their heads in loans. Purchases like this make me sad. I'm not mad nor do I think less of FIT or anyone who does this. It just makes me sad to see a whole country misguided by government(subsidized loans), banks, and federal reserve(low interest rates). We are encouraged by parties on all sides to make large financial decisions that have led to individual and societal disaster. The same mentality is taking us there again.

Like you I am very surpised ghastmaster. Especially this coming from FIT.
This whole loan business (ok most people would really need a loan for a house but I mean for everything else) is a symptom of a very sick system.
And we all know who make loads of money because of all these people ''really needing things''. (and last thing I check these are not FITs friends).

And if you want to make the choice for yourself that you want to loan you might indeed also think about what are the risks for the entire worlds economy of this loan system. Many economists are warning again for a new crisis because loaing money is so cheap again, house prices are sky rocketing again, people ''need'' a new iphone every year etc.

FIT I am anyway happy that you are happy with your new car.
My next one will hopefully be an electrical one.....and/or a shared car (but my wife doesn't agree with that).
Now I am driving a 12 year old volvo so i still have a good 10 years before I have to start worrying about a new car.