Harry Potter as the Antichrist?

[TaiDaishar]

I could never understand how the hell these kind of people grow up to become adults... let alone "educated"...

Such beliefs make me want to smash my head on a variaty of very hard items until one of the aformentioned objects break.

[Nystul]

In response to Vandiablo's post, many people think all Christians don't believe in evolution or the Big Bang, where lots of Christians like Methodists interpret the "First seven days where God created the world" into millions of years, and believe that the God caused the Big Bang, and so on.

As a fellow Methodist, I must say that our Church is so lax that people can believe virtually anything they want to believe. Then they can have a fun time arguing about it at General Conference :) I don't worry too much about whether to take the Seven Day concept literally or as a symbolic story. In a single human lifetime, Tolkien made the languages of the elves to look as though they had evolved from ancient roots over many ages and generations. I'm sure God could pull the same trick on us if he so desired :)

[Guest]

Oh if you only knew what it was like to grow up around those loony toon Southern Baptists... not a pleasant experience I assure you. After spending 8 years of my life being forced to attend a biptist church almost every sunday, hearing the awful sermons of how im going to hell... I just wanted to burn the place to the ground.. Fundamentalist Christianity, vary scary to see how SERIOUS they are about this stupid stuff.
I have actually seen them picket movie theaters showing Harry Potter! Im just glad I got the hell out of that horrible "religion" and became an atheist college student.

[Occhidiangela]

  Without question I believe the Harry Potter series is a creation of hell helping prepare the younger generation to welcome the Biblical prophecies of demons and devils led by Lucifer himself.  Infallible Scripture, the Holy Bible, has outlined the end time scenario and the Harry Potter script sounds exactly like the devil’s part.  Satan will actually be cast out of the midair down to the earth and every fallen angel, now a demon, will be cast out with him.  The activity of these demons will be dark and brutal.  Death, mysteries, strange paranormal powers and scary happenings will become the order of the day.  Casting spells, death by voodoo activities, and fearful sights will be worldwide.  The Harry Potter book reveals a very enlightening picture of the coming days for those “left behind” after the Rapture of the saints.

Interesting, I read it as Rowling setting up a typical 'good versus evil' story in an alternate reality, similar to a good number of science fiction writers. Infallible scripture? Does he mean the one followed by the Greek Orthodox church, the Coptics, or the King James II version? Or another version?

Reincarnation:  “Death Is But The Next Great Adventure”

        The headmaster at Hogwart is the source of this intriguing false statement.  To play with the idea of death in such a confused manner is more than entertainment.  In the third book of this series, the following statement was made. “You can exist without your soul, you know, as long as your brain and heart are still working.  But you’ll have no sense of self anymore, no memory no… anything.  There’s no chance at all of recovery.  You’ll just-exist.  As an empty shell.”  (The Prisoner of Azkaban, p. 247.)

Hmm, the next great adventure was interpreted by me as 'the next glorious step in your existence.' If the immortal soul moves on from its mortal shell, per Christian beliefs, what else could there be but a neat new 'life' that is different from our Earthly life. Hell, our local Baptists are all foaming at the mouth lately about the promise of eternal life! An adventure, indeed, to live as a pure spirit, forever, with The Creator of Everything! Heady stuff, that.

This guy does not appear to understand his own theology, his own belief system, as I see it. He posits that the remark of Dumbledore can ONLY be interpreted as reincarnation. Wow, talk about preconceived notions.

  “This is precisely the problem with the Harry Potter series: Evil is presented in an attractive, ‘wholesome’ package.”

Not quite, evil is portrayed as evil, as bad for you, as a non positive force, particluarly as it is embodied in Voldemort. Indeed, you could easily suggest that Voldemort would be the incarnation of one of Satan's lieutenants who possessed a wizard. And Harry, being the force against Evil, is sort of forced to be . . . good, given Rowling's rather simplistic story arc. Imagine that, use of a literary archetype in a story!!!!!!!

“The kids lie, they steal, they take revenge,” the father of 8- and 11-year-old children told the newspaper.  “This is a disturbing moral world, and it conflicts with what I am trying to teach my children.” 

Yes, they do, and are often held accountable for it. Gee, I wonder if that parallels real life. Or does this father have two kids who have never done wrong in their lives? Talk about a fantasy, and maybe he has been tippling the potions himself ! :P

Remember, if you do not believe in playing the devil’s games, this series of books has a name for you and it isn’t meant to be complimentary.  You are called a “muggle” and these books paint you as a loser or a know-nothing nobody.  That’s talking about us, the Bible-believing Christians.

He fails to note that the good hearted characters overcome the typical bigotry of the Malfoy sorts by befriending and even making common cause with 'Muggles.' While clumsy, this is Rowling dealing with how one should approach folks who are 'different' in both directions at once.

The Harry Potter books are just another means of blinding millions to the truth.  When people love imagination, superstition, paranormal intrigue, witchcraft, and sorcery better than they love truth, the Creator will allow them to be filled with their own desires.  When the cup of sin is full, the King will say, “It is enough.”  My heart tells me the cup is at the brim.  The King will soon have the final word and righteousness will win the day.

Actually, they are a way for J.K. Rowling to make a buck. Works pretty well. They are also escapist reading, like many murder mysteries, and as such to be taken with a grain of salt.

To bad the fellow did not critique Rowling's style and somewhat stilted prose, he'd have been on firmer ground there.

In summary: What a nitwit.

[Vandiablo]

Hypatia of Alexandria ... But, to be truthful, I think she's mostly famous for her femaleness rather than her mathematicalness, with her pagan-martyrdomness coming in  second. Leaving aside Sonya Kovalevski and Emmy Noether, there just aren't too many female mathematicians in history.

What, you're not familiar with the Hypatian Theorem?? tsk, tsk

Anyway, you can't really fault her for either of those, since most math people those days were probably accountants/inventory-specialists, and evidently the Christians in that area were not very bright.

And HEY! Did you deliberately snub Julia?

[Archon_Wing]

Bah, this reminds me of those missionaries who consistently besiege me telling me to convert despite my constant showing of apathy.

Oh, and yea, spellcasting is evil. Yep, everyone who is on these forums now is evil, because they most likely joined because of a game that has all of these evil things. Never mind the fact we're actualy supposed to fight evil. If it has people doing supernatural things, it must be evil! B)

[pakman]

I read somewhere about a week ago that Harry Potter was gay. Just do a google search to look for that bit. The guy was being serious, and he sure did get his name out there. I guess you can publish anything these days....

[Doc]

Back to somebody's comments, there was a sizeable attack on the LoTR series. Infact, there was a massive assault let by a Christian writer. Somehow, this poor chap did not know that JRR was infact, a Christian himself, led to his belief by CS. Lewis. After this embarassing blunder, I never saw that particular writer writing for that publication ever again.

Long live Christian Fiction. Lord of the Rings, the Chronicals of Narnia, etc.

As a Christian, I have no problems really with Potter. I am certainly not going to get my drawers in a bunch, considering there are much bigger fish to fry. Folks who go out and attack stuff like Potter are passive agressive anal retentive folks who were probably potty trained at gunpoint as a child. Harry Potter is the least of all evils I could think of worrying about. How about the Labor Day Klan March that's coming soon to an area near me? Now that is a fish worth frying. Now that's real evil. Harry Potter on the other hand, is candy coated harmless fluff.

Please note my sig

[pakman]

Did a Google search on this Chambers guy, and you should read some of his other stuff, it's really amusing. And if you feel like emailing him this page has the address on it.

Mr. Chambers is just "over-the-top." One of these "I am more righteous than thou" types.

[chillpill]

This guy is pretty serious about this... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Wapptor]

People like this are so narrow minded that it's not even worth arguing with them. For one he is making a huge deal out of something that is fairly trivial, after all this is just a childrens book and entertainment.

I'm not a religious person whatsoever, I'm not so arrogant to be an aetheist and assume there is nothing greater than human beings in this universe, but I take most religion with a LARGE grain of salt. Religion was ultimately created by one person or a few people who had similar beliefs. Those are their beliefs and I'll keep mine, I want nothing to do with what they think.

Generally people like this have just gotten too far into religion to the point that they can't see past it. They live in another world per se. This guys line about demons invading our world in the near future made his situation VERY clear to me. In short, he's a fool with blinders on. Hence, it is just better to point and laugh and get on with our lives. When missionary types come to our door I have a quick way of making them leave. Quite simply: "Sorry, We're satanists" (of course not realy :P )

-Wapptor

[Occhidiangela]

Hypatia was one of the foremost figures of her time, and perhaps some of her fame came from her figure, not her figures. :)

Then there was Hypatia Lee, but that is a figure of another sort . . . :o

[pjnow]

Ms. Lee spells her name Hyapatia.

I have my doubts about whether Ms. Lee chose her stage name to honor the mathematician.

I'm going to make a broad generalization ( the best kind B) ) and say that the vast majority of people in Ms. Lee's line of work didn't spend a whole lot of time studying history, mathematics or the history of women in math. ;)

This thread has weaved an interesting path though, hasn't it. From Harry Potter as anti-christ to late 20th century "entertainers", via ancient Alexandria.

On the Harry Potter thing, seriously,everone needs to lighten up, its just a story. Some these HP debates are reminiscent of the longest running debate on usenet," Do Balrogs have wings" in alt.fan.tolkein or the continuing silly debate in the Star Trek groups about Klingon head ridges ( heres the secret - in 1968 the TV show had neither the budget nor makeup and special effects expertise they have today so the best they could do was make the Klingons swarthy, now, move out of your parent's basement and get a life)

I could see people trying to find hidden meaning and deeper implications in the Harry Potter books if they'd been written by Salman Rushdie, but they weren't. As for Harry being gay, that's just silly ( everyone knows Neville Longbottom is the gay one <_< ), JKR is writing for a young audience and wants to keep that audience ( and their parent's money rolling in ), she's not going to push any boundaries.

Now, if Clive Barker were to take over the series after year seven, then we might get some insight into the private lives of adult wizards and witches, but that's for a different forum ( but Tonks has real possibilities, if you know what I mean, nudge nudge, say no more ).

[Occhidiangela]

Case for a gay Harry Potter:

He spurned the lovely Pavrati Patil AND her cute younger sister in book 4, then completely let's go a groupie craving his attention, not to mention the one gal he has eyes for: Cho Chang. Is there even an ounce of manblood in this young fellow?

As an old sage once said: "He who spurns the wanton wench is a fag!" (Attributed to Peter Spraezer)

However, there are three possibilities that put that simplistic line of thinking into considerable doubt.

1) Harry is madly in love with Hermione, she does not realize it, yet he sees intuitively that she and Ron are simply doomed to get married, their having already perfected "giving each other the red ass via nagging" technique. Harry's unrequited love for Hermione will surface in about book 6, and be a major plot distraction.

2) Harry has still not hit puberty. Rowling does not know how to broach that, IMO, and in any case, some guys break late. He's fourteen, so he may one day wake up, take the sheets to the laundry, scuffle into class late, take one look at Cho Chang smiling back to him, experience wood, and subsequently pass out from the immediate loss of blood to his brain. 'Tis a common enough malady in classrooms the world over. :) He will then have arrived, so to speak, and will start to act more consistently with typical hormone crazed foolishness as regards the fairer gender.

3) Given that Rowling is a woman who is not writing a romance novel, perhaps she chooses to build Harry as a virtuous young lad whose vile upbringing by the Dursley's has somehow managed to imbue in him the virtue of a Paladin, so Harry is basically celibate by choice, and clumsy with girls due to his underdeveloped social skills ages 1-11. Living under the stairs will tend to have its side effects, don't you think? :)

I'd go for option 3.

[Occhidiangela]

Being nitted on the spelling on Ms. Lee's last name has caused a great big grin to spread all over my face. Something tells me you are a fan, or once were. :)

[pakman]

I can't agree or disagree, I put that out here just so you might see how others view Harry Potter. I have not read the books, and really have no motivation to. I view them as childrens' books that are unordinately long for children.

Think of the kinky things wizards do when....hmmm, I think it's time to get back to my Dropkick Murphys cds.

[pjnow]

Actually it's her first name. I'm not really a fan, I'm just familiar with her work, I'm more of a Nina Hartley devotee ;) . But we'd best leave it at that we're treading awfully close to the line here.

[pjnow]

I view them as childrens' books that are unordinately long for children

I'd argue that there's no such thing. The books aren't meant for small children they're meant for kids 10-15 or so.

I started reading real books at 8 with the Hardy Boys. I remember being disappointed that some of them were so short, and being very happy whenever I came across one of the longer ones.

I first read Lord of the Rings when I was 13, all three books were in one 1100 page edition- I couldn't get enough of it. I read every Michael Moorcock book ( definitely not children's books ) I could get my hands on and would have been in heaven I he'd done them in thousand page increments ( instead of the 180 pages most of his stuff was in at the time ).

I tend to get lost in the story and relish a good long read, the more time to enjoy the book.

Anything that encourages kids to read is good, if a longer book keeps their attention longer that's better.

[pjnow]

Or maybe Rowling figures that the average 12 year old will find out about all of the troublesome parts of puberty soon enough and don't need to read about those issues in the place they go to escape.

They are kids oriented fantasy novels afer all.

JKR is trying to do two things, create a safe fantasy world where the good guys win and the bad guys lose and where steadfast adherence to virtues such as loyalty and courage always wins out in the end. AND she's trying to sell books to kids and their parents.

So, JKR will never write anyting other than a chaste kiss on the cheek and boyhood crush into her stories. It would be cutting her own throat.

While Harry may well end up having a girlfriend ( I don't think it will be Hermione, I see Ron and hermione as a couple some day ) at some point in books six or seven, you'll never hear anything more than you'd have heard about the Hardy Boys' girlfriends or Archie and Betty.

[Raz]

I don't think it will be Hermione, I see Ron and hermione as a couple some day

*Curses!!*

Many of my friends would rather have Harry and Hermione together and leave that pesky red-headed boy with another girl... but oh well. Too bad things are shaping up in a way that Ron ends up with Hermione and Harry with Ginny (which by the way was smarter in the last book than in the others. Yay! ). Oh well, at least I hope he doesn't end up with Cho. That girl changes boyfriends as much as she changes her school robes!