Just another reason to hate religious extremists and organized religion in general...

[FireIceTalon]

I know this topic has been covered a bunch here, but its shit like this that really gets under my skin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq2Nm...IqylA&index=19

This guy and all his fucktard groupies in the comments cheering him on, are pure scum. They need to take their subjective, dogmatic moralism and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. God doesn't like murder huh? I guess that is why he lets murder occur EVERY DAY in all the wars (acceptable and even necessary in Christian doctrine but abortion isnt - the hypocrisy in christianity and religious doctrine in general is astounding)?? Oh wait....there is no god.

If they don't want to have their baby, they don't FUCKING HAVE TO HAVE IT. Nuff said.

[Hammerskjold]

[kandrathe]

I know this topic has been covered a bunch here...

[shoju]

[NiteFox]

Is it me, or is atheism turning into a zealous religion these days?

Not an atheist? Then you're a moral and intellectual inferior and must convert because you offend me!

[Hammerskjold]

Two stopped clocks walks into a bar. One clock reads as 11:59, and claims he's 11:59 PM. The other clock reads as 12:01, and claims he's 12:01 AM. One says they're EXTREME!!11, while the other says they're RADICAL!!11.

Anyhow the 2 stopped clocks ordered their drinks, and starts arguing which clock is closer to the ULTIMATE TRUTH, which is an old VCR that constantly flashes 12:00. No AM or PM, just 12:00...12:00...12:00.

The 2 stopped clocks become increasingly loud and annoying to the other patrons, to the point where the bartender steps in and asks what's the problem.

The bartender listens to the two stopped clocks arguments, and says, ' you're both one minute apart from each other. Besides you two act the same way, like a bunch of jackasses. If you can't settle down, you can't stay in this bar. So what's it going to be gentlemen?'

The 2 stopped clock looked stunned, and both became livid. They both say the two can not be further apart. Both hissy fitted, 'It's not one minute apart! There's nearly 12 hours difference between us!' 'It's literally night and day!'

The bartender shakes his head and does a double face palm, and wonders why he has a bar that only attracts customers such as stopped clocks, a horse, a priest a rabbi and a minister.

(edited fix for AM\PM. I blame Jesus. And KKKapitalizm.)

[Bun-Bun]

Is it me, or is atheism turning into a zealous religion these days?

Not an atheist? Then you're a moral and intellectual inferior and must convert because you offend me!

Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

I think what's going on is that between atheism gaining adherents and the Internet allowing collectives to form, the radical fringe is more vocal and visible. This is accentuated by the perception that it's a new thing and atheism has possibly reached mainstream tolerance if not acceptance. It's not that much different from any particular zealotry, and not representative of the whole.

Also gauging atheist fervor from FIT may not be the best selection of data points.

[FireIceTalon]

Is it me, or is atheism turning into a zealous religion these days?

Impossible, since religions presuppose a belief in the supernatural, and have a specific set/system of values and doctrines. Atheism lacks such metaphysical component as well as not being an organized system of specific agendas; and therefore by default cannot be a religion. People calling it one are usually religious zealots like the idiot in the video I posted who are so caught up in their own dogmatic and subjective moral philosophy that they cannot imagine that there are people out there who believe in no god(s).

Also gauging atheist fervor from FIT may not be the best selection of data points.

Except I'm not promoting atheism in this thread, so much as I'm attacking organized religion and its brainwashed, hypocritical disciples that try to force their moral horse crap on others. If I would have been that husband in the video, I'd been like "go preach your bullshit Christian philosophy to someone who cares and leave me and my family the fuck alone". You don't typically see atheists going around to churches and telling them how religion is backwards, ignorant or stupid (like you do religious nutjobs going around and trying to covert people to their belief system) - that's the difference. I'm not saying the guy in this video should become an atheist, I'm saying he should leave people the hell alone and spare them from his nonsense. They don't wanna hear it. I don't go around in real life spouting my atheist (or Marxist for that matter) views to people. If I'm in a social setting and it comes up in discussion, fine, but I don't seek out people to go and preach to.

Also, I wouldn't say atheism has become accepted in the mainstream yet. In many countries you can get killed if you openly declare you are atheist (think many places in the Mid East), and even in more "tolerant" societies like the U.S. that operate on a more secular level, atheists are still scorned upon socially and if you want to run for a high office and are atheist, forget it - you have no chance. Its slowly becoming more acceptable to be openly atheist, but we ain't there yet. I forget the article I posted, because it was some time ago, but I remember finding a poll where having a Muslim president here would be more acceptable to most Americans than having an atheist one (which is all the more amazing since Islamaphobia is the number one political scapegoat used in Western society these days).

[Hammerskjold]

...who are so caught up in their own dogmatic and subjective moral philosophy...

I've heard it said that dogs don't recognize their own reflection. I wonder if that's true with dog-mas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...pjyCE-R4Y4#!

Also. Bicycle rights!!!111

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvV8ugiSeaM

edited ps:

Impossible, since religions presuppose a belief in the supernatural, and have a specific set/system of values and doctrines.

A magical belief in Marx and Hegelian Diuretics will cure all that is wrong in the world.
A lack of self awareness and monomaniacal belief that everyone else's viewpoint is always wrong, but I'm always right.
Oh woe is me, my everflowing tears of impotent rage will cease if only the proles\non-believers will see The True Way.

Yep. Night, and Day.

I don't go around in real life spouting my atheist (or Marxist for that matter) views to people. If I'm in a social setting and it comes up in discussion, fine, but I don't seek out people to go and preach to.

OP's first opening words in the first post, in a thread he created:

I know this topic has been covered a bunch here...

[shoju]

Two stopped clocks walks into a bar. One clock reads as 11:59, and claims he's 11:59 PM. The other clock reads as 12:01, and claims he's 12:01 AM. One says they're EXTREME!!11, while the other says they're RADICAL!!11.

Anyhow the 2 stopped clocks ordered their drinks, and starts arguing which clock is closer to the ULTIMATE TRUTH, which is an old VCR that constantly flashes 12:00. No AM or PM, just 12:00...12:00...12:00.

The 2 stopped clocks become increasingly loud and annoying to the other patrons, to the point where the bartender steps in and asks what's the problem.

The bartender listens to the two stopped clocks arguments, and says, ' you're both one minute apart from each other. Besides you two act the same way, like a bunch of jackasses. If you can't settle down, you can't stay in this bar. So what's it going to be gentlemen?'

The 2 stopped clock looked stunned, and both became livid. They both say the two can not be further apart. Both hissy fitted, 'It's not one minute apart! There's nearly 12 hours difference between us!' 'It's literally night and day!'

The bartender shakes his head and does a double face palm, and wonders why he has a bar that only attracts customers such as stopped clocks, a horse, a priest a rabbi and a minister.

(edited fix for AM\PM. I blame Jesus. And KKKapitalizm.)

Part of me wonders if this post is in some way a wise and witty commentary about FiT and I? Or, maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

But back on topic of where this thread is heading.

I'm not sure I'm an atheist. I'm not sure I'm a believer either. There are days I believe in god, there are days I'm positive there is no God, there are days that I'm pretty sure that Constantine (of comic, and movie fame) hits the nail on the head. We are an ant farm being controlled by two angry kids. And there are days I'm very confident that God is real, and that I'd punch him in his face, if given the opportunity.

That's probably a lot to do with my upbringing.

I don't have a problem with people who are believers. I'm glad that you have found faith in something.

I don't have a problem with nonbelievers. I'm glad that you have found what you feel to be "the truth".

The problem I have, is with people who say things like the original post, or the WBC mission statement, or the Flat World Society, or Fundamentalist Christians, Muslims screaming about the evils of the world, and try to rule all with it.

Because life isn't nice, and pretty, and easy to put into boxes that fit neatly on shelves. It's life. And these are human beings. Complex, free thinking (at times), beings that have a completely different lens, and perspective on the world. Culture, Genes, Socioeconomical, race, factors shape this lens that each person views the world in.

When we are blindsided by our own morals, views, etc... (Our Lens) to the point where we cannot fathom a society that accepts those of dissenting opinions, we are lost.

I don't agree with FiT, and his monochromatic view of how things should be, I don't agree with some of our religious members either. I've been called a hater of christians, and a follower of what the mainstream media shoves down my throat by both sides.

But that's ok. This is an internet forum, where people of multiple cultures, backgrounds, ideologies, etc... come together. I don't expect I'm going to fall in line with people, because I don't think I, or anyone else on this board, will find someone who has the same Lens with which they view the world.

But, even I, grow tired of hearing the same things over and over and over.

[Hammerskjold]

Part of me wonders if this post is in some way a wise and witty commentary about FiT and I? Or, maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

Nah, it was a roundabout way of saying the limit of extremely linear\ black and white spectrum, vs a gradated and circular spectrum. (Besides, you've demonstrated the ability to self reflect and awareness of self, so you're disqualified unfortunately. )

At the risk of killing the joke by dissection, but at this point why the hell not since it's all extra fine paste horse glue anyway.

The difference between 11:59 PM and 12:01 AM is for most every day uses, only minutes apart for most people. To an extremist radical (ooh..so edgy!111) mindset however, it's not a narrow pie slice. It looks more like Pac-Man.




But if anyone wants the blunt and short version. It's not about you and FIT.

It's about someone with FIT's behaviour, and the extremists he decries, sharing more similarities than differences. And being completely oblivious about it. It's like hearing a Mountain Dew Extremist talking crap about Pepsi Max Radical. It's borderline tragicomedy.

But, even I, grow tired of hearing the same things over and over and over.

Yep. What is that saying with fanatics, someone who can't\won't change their mind, and won't change the subject? 'But Fanatics are only Right Wing Capitalist Charlie Church types! Surely -I- and -my- dogma are immune to such corruption. Praise be to Marx. And Groucho. And the Holy Harpo.'

Anyone can change the channel of course, but I'm still having some cheap fun at throwing bread crumbs at the troll. I know the sign says Don't Feed The Trolls...but sometimes I just can't resist. Hey what can I say, I'm easily amused at times.


*edited for spelling miss-steak. And that pesky AM\PM detail again. I again, blame Jesus, and KKKapitalizm. Otherwise it's my own fault. And we all know, that's just -IMPOSSIBLE!!11-.

[kandrathe]

Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Sort of true, but...

Many of my atheist friends attend a UU church religiously. They give good secularist sermons.

[FireIceTalon]

[quote='Hammerskjold' pid='206591' dateline='1370628052']
[quote]
Impossible, since religions presuppose a belief in the supernatural, and have a specific set/system of values and doctrines.
[/quote]

A magical belief in Marx and Hegelian Diuretics will cure all that is wrong in the world.
A lack of self awareness and monomaniacal belief that everyone else's viewpoint is always wrong, but I'm always right.
Oh woe is me, my everflowing tears of impotent rage will cease if only the proles\non-believers will see The True Way.

Yep. Night, and Day.

[quote]
I don't go around in real life spouting my atheist (or Marxist for that matter) views to people. If I'm in a social setting and it comes up in discussion, fine, but I don't seek out people to go and preach to.
[/quote]

Even though I have you on ignore and haven't replied to one of your idiotic (and unwitty) diatribes in like well, oh over a year, I feel this post warrants a reply.

First off, no one said anything about Marx and Hegelian Dialectics (not to mention Marx was highly critical of Hegelian Dialects, but aye, that is another topic), nor did anyone say they are the be all end all cure of the world. You brought that up, and YOU put the words in my mouth, because you, as usual, want to make assumptions and change what things mean so it fits YOUR narrow view of the world. Or maybe you just want to be intellectually dishonest? I don't know....

But now that you brought it up, no, it isn't the same. Marxism and its materialist interpretation of the world may or may not be right - I view it as the most logical and rational way of understanding the world in a physical and material way that can be observed. It makes the most sense to me, thus why I am a Marxist. Again, it may or may not be the correct view - I'm not dogmatic enough to say one way or the other - I will leave such rigid thinking to religious nut jobs, who claim it was all figured out and predestined 14 billion years ago (or, according to some of them, 6000 years ago give or take). But either way, that doesn't matter so much. What DOES matter is this: Marx and Engels at least made a serious attempt to understand the laws of motion that govern historical development and how social relationships function in a particular mode of production by analyzing the material conditions of society. They were fascinated with capitalism and its social relations, as well as with human nature in general, and wanted to know and understand it as full as possible. Religion (especially Christianity), on the other hand, is dogmatic and says basically "god created the world and man, it never changes, man is inherently selfish and sinful by nature, and will always live in estrangement" - so according to most religious zealots, we all just may as well kill ourselves now just like Jim Jones told us to do so It offers NO material explanation of the world and how it works, or of human nature, because it relies on the faith that some great deity oversees all our thoughts and actions and that most of us are destined to chaotic pits of fire land, and a divine few of us get to go to the promised land and chill with The Great Invisible Man (those who subjugate themselves as slaves to HIS/HER worldview). Gee, how convenient At least Marxism makes a honest attempt (whether it is right or wrong), which is far more than I can say for any religion.

You equating Marxism with a religion (especially when they are based on fundamentally opposing philosophies - materialism and idealism) just shows how intellectually brain dead, shallow minded, and simplistic your thought process is. It doesn't matter which one is right or not.

I have a lack of self-awareness? Right, because having class consciousness is the ultimate lack of self awareness . At this point, I'm beginning to think you aren't even a troll, and actually a complete buffoon, and part of me regrets taking 5 mins out of my life to respond to you. Oh well.

[Hammerskjold]

'No no, you are not privy to the secret of the higher levels of Marx like -I- do.'

Is it up, down, up, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, B, A, select, start?

In any case I sense much butthurtz in you. 'No ONE attacks Marx, NO ONE!!11 Leave Marx alone!' It's funny how you keep your own sacred cows in a glass barn. Everyone else' is fair game to the superiority of commie-ism of course. But not yours.

Yep. "All animals are equal... Some are more equal than others." Long live Animalism.

Anywho dearie, I don't have anything that can soothe your pain, but worry not. There is this online form that can help you out.

[FireIceTalon]

I just completely destroyed your post, and yet somehow I'm the one who is all bent out of shape Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

just when I thought you couldn't make a bigger ass clown out of yourself, you always find a way to outdo your prior idiocy. Sadly, that is about the only thing you will ever prove me wrong on. Back on ignore you go, don't want to waste any more of my valuable time on your antics.

p.s. I could care less if you insult Marx, lol. Never met the guy, why would it mean anything to me what some random buffoon on the internet says about him? Sorry, just because I happen to agree with his theoretical framework doesn't mean I worship him. Ill let idiots like you who subscribe to Great Man theories (of what most religions are based around, and thus why they throw a hissssssssy fit when you insult God, Jezuz, Muhammed, Allah, or whoever their particular Great Man is) do that. Go ahead, insult Marx. I ain't gonna lose any sleep over it - I never met the guy.

[shoju]

Hammer, your post made me open up FiT's. yes. Much unhappiness. I also find it incredibly fascinating that in his "high state of brain functioning" he can't draw the parallels (at any point when they are made) to his fervent stance and defense of Marxist philosophies here on the Lounge, and the stance that many religious zealots take.

It's been brought up many times, but it always comes back to the same spot. We're brain dead, he's amazing. Even though, he just can't seem to catch the similarities between his behavior in defense of marxism, and a "religious nut" (like the ones he despises) defending their position. Because his position is RIGHT! Or... Is it Left?

I don't know. I just... wow. Dead horses, and irony abound.

[FireIceTalon]

It's been brought up many times, but it always comes back to the same spot. We're brain dead, he's amazing. Even though, he just can't seem to catch the similarities between his behavior in defense of marxism, and a "religious nut" (like the ones he despises) defending their position. Because his position is RIGHT! Or... Is it Left?

Or maybe its not because my views are necessarily right (maybe they are, maybe not but it is beside the point), but the fact that there are no similarities between Marxism and religion at all, and in fact, the two are completely incompatible. Just a thought.

And as far as my behavior goes, what do you expect me to do? If I see something that is wrong or misrepresents my views, should I just go along with it? No, if something said is false, it warrants criticism, and I will happily do so (as anyone should). If you have a problem with that, I really don't know what to tell you. What do you do when people twist your views to fit them around their own? Nod your head and just go along with it?

Nor did I ever say I was amazing - thats you and hammer putting words into my mouth, once again.

[Hammerskjold]

Hammer, your post made me open up FiT's. yes. Much unhappiness.

Ouch, for that I apologize.

I also find it incredibly fascinating that in his "high state of brain functioning" he can't draw the parallels (at any point when they are made) to his fervent stance and defense of Marxist philosophies here on the Lounge, and the stance that many religious zealots take.

It's been brought up many times, but it always comes back to the same spot. We're brain dead, he's amazing.

Well to be fair, he may still be working on solving the logic bomb someone threw out a while back. IIRC it was a devious little doozy of 'Friedrick Hayek, Salma Hayek'.

For simple minded proles it's an easy pun. For a special caliber of genius that is OP, it's obviously a multi layered conundrum wrapped in a riddle wrapped in bacon. That is, it's a system and resource intensive task to even just process that statement.

It's a burden of special genius that is OP's cross to bear.

I don't know. I just... wow. Dead horses, and irony abound.

Yes, but my dilemma is I'm now low on bread crumbs. Should I switch to throwing unpopped popcorn kernels instead? I did say I'm easily entertained.

[kandrathe]

As the great prophet Leary said, "A lot of communists are spinning in their graves about now."

Mmmm. Bacon.


But... To stay on topic... Here is Che, about to blow his brains out.


But, all jabs aside... Let me add something relevant to the thread.

[attachment=164]
"For Social Democracy is not a mere economic theory; it is a complete self-contained philosophy of the world and of human development; it is, in a word, a religion and an ethic."
-- Bertrand Russell - Six Lectures on - German Social Democracy, 1896

You see; before it came to be called Marxism, it was known at the time as the German Social Democratic Workers movement.

[FireIceTalon]

As the great prophet Leary said, "A lot of communists are spinning in their graves about now."

Mmmm. Bacon.


But... To stay on topic... Here is Che, about to blow his brains out.


But, all jabs aside... Let me add something relevant to the thread.


"For Social Democracy is not a mere economic theory; it is a complete self-contained philosophy of the world and of human development; it is, in a word, a religion and an ethic."
-- Bertrand Russell - Six Lectures on - German Social Democracy, 1896

You see; before it came to be called Marxism, it was known at the time as the German Social Democratic Workers movement.

There was a thread on Rev Left a while back where some troll came onto the site and tried to claim Marxism as a religion - and he was pretty soundly debunked.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/hereby-contest...m+religion

Thats the actual thread, but if you want to get to some of the posts that actually rip this guys arguments apart and skip the earlier responses that just dismiss the thread creator as a troll (which he certainly is), you could look at excellent posts like this (and no, that isn't my post - although I agree with it entirely), which very eloquently destroys any notion that Marxism is a religion:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p...stcount=49

This guy destroys the op also, albeit in a less nice (yet equally effective) manner:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p...stcount=67

Along with numerous others in the same thread. This is a guy who claimed he used to be a Marxist but then used the term 'Nazi Marxists' ....kind of hard to take such a person seriously.

And while Mr. Russell is certainly a more credible person than the dingbat who made the above thread, his argument that Marxism is a religion is discredited in the same way, nevertheless. And Marxism, btw, was already a developed and well conceived mode of analysis when the SPD was prominent. The terms Marxism and "Social Democracy" did indeed once mean the same thing, but came to have different meanings after the SPD betrayed the workers and supported WW1 during The Second International. All "Social Democracy" means nowadays is a tightly governed capitalist system with a substantial welfare state, nothing more.