Mage PvP Question

[LavCat]

During the most recent Wintergrasp victory on Stormrage, my warlock spent all of her time at Sunken Ring, almost all of that time perched on the workshop roof. She would do her usual thing of dotting people up and firing RPGG's at the siege engines, mana draining healers and so forth. About ten minutes into the battle she was joined on the roof by a Horde mage with 5 Tenacity. Being a devotee of Savory Deviate Delight, she embraced the oldest and noblest of pirate traditions and Death Coiled and ran away.

A few minutes later she portaled back up to her spot on the roof but found the mage still there: Death Coil again and run away. If the goal was to kill her the Horde failed. If the goal was to spoil her little fun, I suppose they were successful. Though it did take a mage otherwise out of the fight, and there were a lot more Alliance than horde in battle. The mage stayed on the roof and did not appear to attack anyone else until we won.

My question is how did the mage get on the roof? Is it possible to blink? My best guess is that the mage left Wintergrasp and flew back in. Is there some other mage ability that could account for it? We would not have been surprised to have been joined by a Shadow Step rogue I suppose, except I don't think I've seen a Shadow Step Horde rogue in Wintergrasp.

[Lissa]

During the most recent Wintergrasp victory on Stormrage, my warlock spent all of her time at Sunken Ring, almost all of that time perched on the workshop roof. She would do her usual thing of dotting people up and firing RPGG's at the siege engines, mana draining healers and so forth. About ten minutes into the battle she was joined on the roof by a Horde mage with 5 Tenacity. Being a devotee of Savory Deviate Delight, she embraced the oldest and noblest of pirate traditions and Death Coiled and ran away.

A few minutes later she portaled back up to her spot on the roof but found the mage still there: Death Coil again and run away. If the goal was to kill her the Horde failed. If the goal was to spoil her little fun, I suppose they were successful. Though it did take a mage otherwise out of the fight, and there were a lot more Alliance than horde in battle. The mage stayed on the roof and did not appear to attack anyone else until we won.

My question is how did the mage get on the roof? Is it possible to blink? My best guess is that the mage left Wintergrasp and flew back in. Is there some other mage ability that could account for it? We would not have been surprised to have been joined by a Shadow Step rogue I suppose, except I don't think I've seen a Shadow Step Horde rogue in Wintergrasp.

Cast Slow Fall, Mount a fast ground mount, run at edge of the ring and jump. Should have more than enough speed with the slow fall float to reach it.

[LavCat]

Cast Slow Fall, Mount a fast ground mount, run at edge of the ring and jump. Should have more than enough speed with the slow fall float to reach it.

Unfortunately my mage is not old enough for a fast mount, nor to get into Wintergrasp for that matter. I tried testing with nitro boost boots and parachute, and Fasolt slammed into the workshop wall rather like her hero, Wile E. Coyote.

[Shamago]

Unfortunately my mage is not old enough for a fast mount, nor to get into Wintergrasp for that matter. I tried testing with nitro boost boots and parachute, and Fasolt slammed into the workshop wall rather like her hero, Wile E. Coyote.

Add blink into the equation.

[swirly]

Am I the only one that feels that getting on a building that a majority of classes don't even have a way to possibly get on is a bit too similar to using an exploit? It is like running HoR and going out to that side section during the Lich king part (which I believe has been fixed). Yes you can do it, but it sure seems anti-lurker to do so. This building stuff feels similar and inappropriate. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe others disagree, but I just thought I'd voice my thoughts.

[Jester]

Am I the only one that feels that getting on a building that a majority of classes don't even have a way to possibly get on is a bit too similar to using an exploit? It is like running HoR and going out to that side section during the Lich king part (which I believe has been fixed). Yes you can do it, but it sure seems anti-lurker to do so. This building stuff feels similar and inappropriate. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe others disagree, but I just thought I'd voice my thoughts.

I'm not so sure on this one. I really wish Blizzard would fix it, because it's annoying, and adds nothing to the gameplay but frustration.

But... it might be "unfair" in some sense, but it's not broken. Nobody is using any of their skills except exactly what they're designed for. It might confer an advantage, but it's not a very large one. If one side is winning or losing at Wintergrasp because of this, it's because the game was already very, very close.

To me, this falls under the same category as the old faceroll paladins from before they fixed Ret. It's irritating, it's unfair, and it should be fixed, but I don't see it as an exploit.

-Jester

[Shamago]

I'm not so sure on this one. I really wish Blizzard would fix it, because it's annoying, and adds nothing to the gameplay but frustration.

But... it might be "unfair" in some sense, but it's not broken. Nobody is using any of their skills except exactly what they're designed for. It might confer an advantage, but it's not a very large one. If one side is winning or losing at Wintergrasp because of this, it's because the game was already very, very close.

To me, this falls under the same category as the old faceroll paladins from before they fixed Ret. It's irritating, it's unfair, and it should be fixed, but I don't see it as an exploit.

-Jester

Also, if the workshop actually changes hands, anyone remotely near the structure is moved away from it. I agree that it's still very annoying to those on the ground and somewhat exploitish. They should just make it so you can't stand on the roof without sliding off. Do the same for the inner keep walls while they're at it.

[Taelas]

You're not supposed to go stand on roofs like this. I consider it an exploit personally. Everyone should be able to get to you; if there are some classes who cannot get to you without flying, how can it not be one?

[Chesspiece_face]

Also, if the workshop actually changes hands, anyone remotely near the structure is moved away from it. I agree that it's still very annoying to those on the ground and somewhat exploitish. They should just make it so you can't stand on the roof without sliding off. Do the same for the inner keep walls while they're at it.

What makes this so exploitish is that (last I checked) you can capture the workshops while standing on top of them. So not only can you harrass any of the opposing team on the ground with almost impunity but unless they counter you with the same amount of players sitting inside the workshop the people on the roof will eventually take the workshop without having to fight for it. It's cheese at it's worst and for most servers that aren't very balanced for Alliance/Horde players it means that the higher player count side can sacrifice the players to just sit up on the workshops.

[Lissa]

What makes this so exploitish is that (last I checked) you can capture the workshops while standing on top of them. So not only can you harrass any of the opposing team on the ground with almost impunity but unless they counter you with the same amount of players sitting inside the workshop the people on the roof will eventually take the workshop without having to fight for it. It's cheese at it's worst and for most servers that aren't very balanced for Alliance/Horde players it means that the higher player count side can sacrifice the players to just sit up on the workshops.

You do realize that destroying a workshop (outside the fortress) with seige engines will cause it to swap sides right? Doesn't matter how many people are standing on top of it or standing inside of it, if the workships outside of the fortress are destroyed, they switch sides.

[Kevin]

You do realize that destroying a workshop (outside the fortress) with seige engines will cause it to swap sides right? Doesn't matter how many people are standing on top of it or standing inside of it, if the workships outside of the fortress are destroyed, they switch sides.

So that makes the exploit OK? It still means you are diverting primary resources for a goal that should be achievable without using them. There are reasons you may still want to destroy a workshop, but having to do so because of an exploit is not good design.

[Lissa]

So that makes the exploit OK? It still means you are diverting primary resources for a goal that should be achievable without using them. There are reasons you may still want to destroy a workshop, but having to do so because of an exploit is not good design.

I'm not saying it makes it ok, I'm saying that because someone is doing it, that's how you get around it.

And you realize that destroying is far more quick than having a bunch of people stand there right? The destroyed workshop comes back with full health and on your side within about 10 seconds of it being destroyed, which with a couple seige enginers (not the catapults) takes like 15 to 20 seconds compared to 30+ seconds of having a large number of people standing around doing nothing effectively.

[Chesspiece_face]

I'm not saying it makes it ok, I'm saying that because someone is doing it, that's how you get around it.

And you realize that destroying is far more quick than having a bunch of people stand there right? The destroyed workshop comes back with full health and on your side within about 10 seconds of it being destroyed, which with a couple seige enginers (not the catapults) takes like 15 to 20 seconds compared to 30+ seconds of having a large number of people standing around doing nothing effectively.

Which I'm sure is an adequate solution for all those realms that are close to a 1 to 1 population. Those realms, like Terenas which I play on, where one side is permenantly operating with a 3+ stack of Tenacity diverting the siege resources to do this is pointless. It's an exploit that tips the scales even more towards the side who already has the advantage. If Ally wanted to on Terenas they could dedicate 20 players to just fly in before the battle and camp five people on top of each workshop and often still have 75+ players to sit in the courtyard. A month or two ago when there were a bunch of snow days they did this multiple times a day and it's not too rare that you see at least one group doing this even when there are not population descrepencies like that. I could care less if some players want to camp up there and harrass the other team but the fact that they can do so and capture a workshop without legitimately fighting for it is borked and the greater the disparity in player base the worse and more exploitative it is.

[LavCat]

You do realize that destroying a workshop (outside the fortress) with seige engines will cause it to swap sides right? Doesn't matter how many people are standing on top of it or standing inside of it, if the workships outside of the fortress are destroyed, they switch sides.

I often see siege engine pilots trying to destroy workshops, but it pays to read the patch notes even if some might consider doing so an exploit:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/patch3p2.html
"Wintergrasp factories can no longer be damaged or destroyed."

It has happened that I have single handedly captured a workshop by standing on the roof. It does not happen often.