Diablo III is for real

[nobbie]

For those who don't agree with the current artistic direction of Diablo III, and the Warcraft-ization of Blizzard's various IPs, here is a petition to sign that hopefully alerts them of our concerns (~2000 signatures thus far).

In fact, through many various Diablo fansites I've discovered there's a fierce discussion going on about that direction, so it's not just "whining" or "nitpicking". These graphics are beautiful and interesting, but simply do not fit the Diablo universe. From what I've seen, "casual" fans of the series are mostly ambivalent, and "hardcore" fans are more sharply divided.

Myself, I rather enjoyed the fact that Diablo is one of the few RPGs you could that was less "faerie" and more "horror", and I'm determined to help keep it that way.

In my opinion, the game art looks fine so far. My wish would be, though, that the blurry "paint" effect on grass etc in outdoor scenes can be disabled via video options (I assume this is just a 2D post effect). The previous indoor scenes in the dungeon with Cain look much better and detailed without that effect.

[Xbizkitl]

In my opinion, the game art looks fine so far. My wish would be, though, that the blurry "paint" effect on grass etc in outdoor scenes can be disabled via video options (I assume this is just a 2D post effect). The previous indoor scenes in the dungeon with Cain look much better and detailed without that effect.

Things that literally piss me off every time I see them:

1. The look of the "ramparts" of the railing that Barbarian follows within the dungeon, those infuriating, perfectly Platonically pyramidal blocks

2. The pillar that the Thousand Pounder destroys in his summoning, this combine with the general "cleanliness" of everything

3. The fact that everything somehow seems blurred and smeared when I look at it in high resolution, that I can't really focus on any one thing

4. The general look of floor textures within the dungeon, as well as the lighting effects within it

5. The comic look of the character models, like the oversized shoulder pads or the fact that the Barbarian's muscles seem to be drawn on, rather than a physical part of himself

6. The lack of a metallic glint on the armor or sword of the characters, it gives the feeling of a watercolor painting..very different from Diablo's grittiness

PS: If MFing for loot involved searching for epic items that look akin to the maul that the Barbarian handles, or his incredibly cheesy enchanted axes, I could never do it. And that's like 50% of the fun of DIII right there.

[Chesspiece_face]

I was referring to slow walk speed being required due to the technology available in 1996, rather than a design choice of the game.

You're really serious about all this? Either you've never played much post-level 30 Diablo or your memory of the game is very foggy. High level warriors who follow the tactical advice of Bolty's guide are likely to cast teleport over 200 times on a level full of ranged attackers, not as a reset button but as a way to get close to the enemy faster. High level mages aren't likely to ever walk at all, except in town or to avoid annoying their playing partners with all the wooshing sounds. Bow rogues probably benefit from teleport more than anyone, since it gives them an instant distance advantage over all enemies and costs a fraction of even a single stonecurse.

I just did about 200 blind teleports through normal hell with a level 27, low AC mage without mana shield and only a few levels of teleport, and never died or experienced any of this "loading" you speak of. Unlike D2, Diablo has no dynamic level loading. The level you are on is in memory, and the others are not. You cast teleport, the screen redraws sometime in the next .05 seconds or so, end of story. There is a slight glitch with the cursor location sometimes causing you to teleport to the wrong spot in rare circumstances but it's hardly a show stopper. The bottom line is, they could have made Diablo character move at whatever speed seemed appropriate, they chose the one they chose, and they happened to make most of the enemies move at roughly the same speed which turned out to be a good choice. That, and the supposedly faster pace of D2 or any other RPG is almost entirely illusory, because Diablo can be one heck of a frantic game if you choose to play it that way.

It's a question of processor speed and the load-hit-store. Because of the tile based gameplay and the filter lighting design they chose, each tile requires a value to be addressed to it to associate it with a certain lighting filter. As should be obvious, the faster a character moves the faster the computer has to go through the load-hit-store function for the tile lighting. What happens when the character moves too fast is that the engine will begin calling for data which hasn't had enough time to be written yet and it creates a stall. This leads to dead tiles or even possibly a complete game freeze.

Teleport was probably a bad argument for me to pursue because it isn't relevant to the discussion. When you teleport it acts as a total lighting whipe. The game doesn't have to rewrite lighting values for the tiles, it just starts fresh.

D1's character movement speed is a direct correlation to the speed at which computers of that time could move through the load-hit-store cycle. If it takes (insert cycle amount) processor cycles to write a lighting value for a tile to the cache and the game is trying to read that value before it's done writing you've got a broken game. And in D1's case we are looking at computer speeds back in 1996.

[Occhidiangela]

5. The comic look of the character models, like the oversized shoulder pads or the fact that the Barbarian's muscles seem to be drawn on, rather than a physical part of himself

I was trying to put my finger on the artistic features that made me :( and you've nailed it. I hope it can be adjusted for a smoother look, but given who the lead artist is, I doubt it.

Occhi

[Ell_man]

Did anyone notice the most amazing feature in the game play demo? You can pick up gold by WALKING OVER IT!

I hope they implement this feature for items too. Better yet, lower the amount of drops. Allow me to jump on the worship diablo1 bandwagon. I wish Diablo3 will return to the item drop rate of diablo 1. Having 4-6 magical items drop per dungeon level is vastly superior to the monster pinata model of D2. I like items but having monsters literally explode with items just makes the game a tedious click fest and inventory management game.

[Chesspiece_face]

I was trying to put my finger on the artistic features that made me :( and you've nailed it. I hope it can be adjusted for a smoother look, but given who the lead artist is, I doubt it.

Occhi

I personally have no problems with the artistic direction of D3. So far i think it looks like a beautiful game and looks like a lot of fun to play.

My issues with the Diablo franchise as a whole, and why i feel the series has lost a lot of it's mood derives from a couple of changes that occured between D1 and D2.

1. In diablo 1 the smaller scope really created a feel that the characters were cut off from any greater society. And not that they were just the exception, but that the world of diablo was a world floundering in the darkness much like that of medieval europe and that it's denizens were a people always fearful and superstitious of the world just outside their doors. When D2 opened up the world and showed areas of great commerce and civilization the mask of darkness and superstition disintigrated. Traversing in the greater world became more pedestrian and the evils you faced were lessened because of it.

2. Diablo 2 removed much of the Christian symbols and religious context in favor of a more generalized fantasy world. This happens with a lot of games like this when they become popular and under more focused attention. In Diablo they started removing the upside down burning crosses etc. Magic the Gathering underwent a similar change in which they removed all cards with demons as well as altered art to remove pentagrams etc. The use of real world icons makes much of the imagery in Diablo 1 that much more viceral and dark.

The combination of these two factors creates a powerful literary device where the characters in Diablo 1 focused their fear and superstitions towards the church looking for safety and reprieve. The church, in turn, became an even greater source of the darkness the characters were trying to escape. This is a level of evil which can easily resonate with any player and this depth was totally lost in the transition to Diablo 2.

[Xbizkitl]

A great post that I found on the Diablofans forum by a user "Resvrgam" that perfectly illustrates the issues many of us have with the art direction:

As an artist, game developer (not affiliated with Blizzard) and long-time fan of the Diablo series, I've found the new art direction to be undesirable in many regards and hope the following points best clarify why I'm complaining about an unfinished product atop my virtual soapbox:

IP Ambiguity: Blizzard has rocketed to the top of the success ladder with its three main Intellectual Properties: Warcraft, Starcraft & Diablo. These three franchises can be categorized, in terms of genre as: High Fantasy, Sci-Fi/Fantasy & Dark/Gothic Fantasy, respectively. The categories help customers clearly identify the three IPs. This new art direction (seen in Diablo III's public announcement) blurs the lines between two of Blizzard's IPs. "Is that a Troll Witch Doctor I'm looking at or something from Diablo?" By doing this, the IPs become harder to discern and the end result is a watered down version attempting to accommodate both the demographics... akin to a jack-of-all-trades, master of nothing scenario.

Fanbase Alienation: The Diablo series has always been in a dark and dreary setting that instills a foreboding sense of hopelessness and futility. This couldn't be any more reinforced by the ironic conclusion of the first game: the hero defeats the devil but willingly sacrifices his/herself to contain the unstoppable evil. The powers of these beings is something much bigger than any of us, the heroes or the mortal world. By making things cartoonish and less 'gritty' and somberly realistic, the oppressive dread is no longer felt.

Artistic Discontinuity: In metaphoric art terms, Warcraft is a colourful oil painting: the textures contain palettes of vibrant hues and hard lines define soft shapes. Diablo, on the other hand, gives the impression of being more of a charcoal illustration: realistic and heavily influenced by black and muted hues. Magic is still colourful but doesn't over-power a scene with a conflagration of blues, green, reds and purples. Color, when used sparingly, can direct someone's eyes to an intended point of interest. When over-used, it makes the eyes tired and desensitized. On the opposite side of the that, under-use can also yield bad consequences. The point is, the world of Diablo isn't a colorful place and when vibrancy is introduced into a macabre setting, it feels more surreal than terrifying.

Well, that's just the 2 cents of an anonymous forum poster but I pessimistically hope what was listed makes any small amount of difference. I LOVE many of the concept images and have an appreciation for the Conan-esque direction many of the images appear to have gone but there seems to have been a lot lost in the translation to 3D. Diablo III will be a great game, regardless of graphics, and I'm looking forward to many lost hours killing demons once more.

[Urza-DSF]

For those who don't agree with the current artistic direction of Diablo III, and the Warcraft-ization of Blizzard's various IPs, here is a petition to sign that hopefully alerts them of our concerns (~2000 signatures thus far).

In fact, through many various Diablo fansites I've discovered there's a fierce discussion going on about that direction, so it's not just "whining" or "nitpicking". These graphics are beautiful and interesting, but simply do not fit the Diablo universe. From what I've seen, "casual" fans of the series are mostly ambivalent, and "hardcore" fans are more sharply divided.

Myself, I rather enjoyed the fact that Diablo is one of the few RPGs you could that was less "faerie" and more "horror", and I'm determined to help keep it that way.

*points up to Rolands post*

Nevermind that petitions do nothing, this is a game still in development. I mean we've only been shown 2 of the 5 slated character classes, and everything still needs a lot of work.

Getting huffy about things now makes no sense.

[Xbizkitl]

*points up to Rolands post*

Nevermind that petitions do nothing, this is a game still in development. I mean we've only been shown 2 of the 5 slated character classes, and everything still needs a lot of work.

Getting huffy about things now makes no sense.

I don't want to get testy, but I can't believe I found a post of the same type quality found on the BNet public forums on the Lurker Lounge.

When else would be a good time to complain? The game has purportedly been in development for 4 years, and Rob Pardo stated in an interview they were looking to create more content. Should we complain after they've started creating images for the loot? Should we start complaining when the game is post-alpha? Should we start complaining in damned Beta? When the game goes gold?

Everything needs a lot of work, yes? Don't you think that an artistic direction is needed for that work to begin in the first place? Wouldn't it be a little concerning to you know, people worried the problem that this work doesn't have a clear artistic vision in mind?

It seems that the development machine is gaining steam to the point that most changes will be irrevocable. I think I'd like to head off the game before they crush my vision of Diablo III.

[Elric of Grans]

I have barely touched gaming since early 2005 and now have a six year old PC, but between StarCraft II and Diablo III, Blizzard have ensured I return to the fold. I share the sentiments expressed by others in this thread. I cannot imagine how Blizzard of today could hope to recapture the Diablo I loved, and the early visuals they have released are too far a departure from the past. This is especially so given things perhaps should be even darker and more hopeless than ever before. Despite these concerns. Despite my hesitation to trust Blizzard to do this right. I hear a voice. A deep, snarling shout of `FRESH MEAT!'

Where did I put those old Diablo CDs of mine? I already need a new fix...

[Taem]

I have barely touched gaming since early 2005 and now have a six year old PC, but between StarCraft II and Diablo III, Blizzard have ensured I return to the fold. I share the sentiments expressed by others in this thread. I cannot imagine how Blizzard of today could hope to recapture the Diablo I loved, and the early visuals they have released are too far a departure from the past. This is especially so given things perhaps should be even darker and more hopeless than ever before. Despite these concerns. Despite my hesitation to trust Blizzard to do this right. I hear a voice. A deep, snarling shout of `FRESH MEAT!'

Where did I put those old Diablo CDs of mine? I already need a new fix...

Wow, I almost totally forgot about you Elric. To be completly honest, if you hadn't of posted, I would never have remembered you existed. Anyways, it's nice to see you post again.

[Urza-DSF]

I don't want to get testy, but I can't believe I found a post of the same type quality found on the BNet public forums on the Lurker Lounge.

Ad hominem much?

When else would be a good time to complain? The game has purportedly been in development for 4 years, and Rob Pardo stated in an interview they were looking to create more content. Should we complain after they've started creating images for the loot? Should we start complaining when the game is post-alpha? Should we start complaining in damned Beta? When the game goes gold?

Perhaps when they actually have a listed release date, or when more info about the game past what few snippets they do have are released. They have an engine and the starting of their art development, and even that was stated to have gone through 3 revisions already.

Everything needs a lot of work, yes? Don't you think that an artistic direction is needed for that work to begin in the first place? Wouldn't it be a little concerning to you know, people worried the problem that this work doesn't have a clear artistic vision in mind?

I think their art development is excellent. D1 was *never* about the artwork, and there are indeed a lot of things that are extremely cartoonish within the game (see: fallen, overlords, succubi, horned devils). What really set the mood was a) the slow pace, which as it has been stated before was a result of limitations of technology of the time, andB)the Music. What made D1 so scary was the creeping, pounding music in the background heightening the mood of any area you were in, and what was missing in much of D2. That seems to be making a big comeback if the location sites are any indication.

It seems that the development machine is gaining steam to the point that most changes will be irrevocable. I think I'd like to head off the game before they crush my vision of Diablo III.

Rail all you want to, but it's Blizzard has the track record of making decisions that make excellent games that fly off of the shelves. So you'll have to excuse me if I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt over someone outside of their production circles who has access to exactly the same information and pull that we all do.

[DeeBye]

Does anyone seriously think Diablo 3 will be be anything other than awesome, considering Blizzard's track record? They have never made a lousy game. There is no other gaming company with their track record.

Diablo 3 is too bright and cheery? People forget that Diablo 2 was lit up like a Christmas tree compared to Diablo 1, and it was pretty frickin' awesome. The gameplay video looked pretty great to me. I'd play it in a second, and I'm confident it will be nothing short of amazing.

Also, that online petition made me roll my eyes so hard I was looking at the back of my skull:rolleyes:

[--Pete]

Hi,

Nevermind that petitions do nothing,

Not necessarily true, but Blizzard does have a history of ignoring fan input.

. . . this is a game still in development.

Right. So NOW is the only time when there is a chance that things can be changed. If you wait till the boxes are on the store shelves, you sure aren't going to get them to change. Yeah, can't you just see Blizzard, "Oh, look, we've got a petition. Let's destroy a billion boxes and start over."

Getting huffy about things now makes no sense.

Spoken like a true fanboi. Grab your ankles and wait -- Blizzard will give you what's best. If you don't love everything they say, you're a disloyal bastard.

--Pete

[Occhidiangela]

Hi,
you just see Blizzard, "Oh, look, we've got a petition. Let's destroy a billion boxes and start over."
Spoken like a true fanboi. Grab your ankles and wait -- Blizzard will give you what's best. If you don't love everything they say, you're a disloyal bastard.

--Pete

Well put from a veteran of the Buzzard years.

As to the artist's critique: yes, he captured the essence of the design shortcomings perfectly. Why should Blizzard settle for "OK" when their track record is in the superlative realm? They can afford to get it right.

The flavor was KEY to my enjoyment of D1. WoW, though a fine game, didn't do it for me. WC III, though diverting, didn't have the feel.


The feel is key to putting one's stamp on the genre, and gothic works when handled correctly.

Occhi

[CelticHound]

Just last night I took up the frightful quest of seeking Horazon's Urinal.

(Following Occhi's post, is my timing excellent or wretched?)

I agree with Occhi about the feel and more specifically with Urza-DSF about the music. I loved the soundtrack of both games.

About D2 being brighter, I think it's true, but you need light to cast shadows. :)

Also, we're looking back now and know the game inside & out. If I take a beginner's mind, I recall the first time I went after Blood Raven was scary - like encountering the Butcher for the first time (or the second or...). Ditto the first time the prowling dead in Act 5 started resurrecting on me. I expect the first time I solo through D3, it will be the same.

The animation that Faragon posted on page 3 reminds me of Warhammer: Dawn of War. That's another game where I like the sound track, as well as the feel that game captures.

-- CH

And with D2 I never managed to save a game where my Rogue didn't realize she had just woken up three Steel Lords (?). That led to a Twilight-Zone-like loop of repeated deaths.

[smegged]

Between the cash juggernaut that is WoW and the impending release of SC2 and D3 I think the governments of the world should just give up and cede the rights to Blizzard to just go ahead and print money.

Funniest thing I've read all day.

Personally I think I'm going to have to find a cave somewhere (maybe hide with Bin Laden) so that noone can find me for a year or more when these two games come out.

Work calls: Where are you?!!?!

Me: Uh, I'm still "sick". I promise I'll be better within oh say two years. Honestly.

[smegged]

Hi,
Skill, shmill. It's the leet loot, dummy!

Sarcasm aside, nice analysis. But there's about a billion casual players who just want to gun and run for every one that wants to think. Blizzard knows that, that's who they're targeting -- and succeeding pretty darn well. Remember, Diablo was not a Blizzard product. It was pretty well along when Blizzard bought Condor. That's why, when I really feel like a challenge, I still crank up CD (as recently as two weeks ago). When I want to goof off with a beer and nuts game, it's D2. And, I'm ashamed to admit, I play more D2 than CD. Just like, on my PDA, I play a lot more Sudoku than chess. Laziness is addictive.

--Pete

What REALLY makes D1 the superior game can be summed up by two words.

FRESH MEAT!

Brown trouser time:)

[kandrathe]

Just last night I took up the frightful quest of seeking Horazon's Urinal.

(Following Occhi's post, is my timing excellent or wretched?)

I agree with Occhi about the feel and more specifically with Urza-DSF about the music. I loved the soundtrack of both games.

About D2 being brighter, I think it's true, but you need light to cast shadows. :)

Also, we're looking back now and know the game inside & out. If I take a beginner's mind, I recall the first time I went after Blood Raven was scary - like encountering the Butcher for the first time (or the second or...). Ditto the first time the prowling dead in Act 5 started resurrecting on me.

-- CH

And with D2 I never managed to save a game where my Rogue didn't realize she had just woken up three Steel Lords (?). That led to a Twilight-Zone-like loop of repeated deaths.

Yeah, I still get a lump in my throat when I need to go up against some mini-boss extra strong with sparklies. Or, how about in the swamp as a melee char when fetishes with thorns swarm you? Or, the first time you took on Andariel solo when she was spewing poison clouds about you? D2 has its moment of terror.

[Arnulf]

Things that literally piss me off every time I see them: [..]

Things, that piss you off?

You know the perfect solution for that, right? Just don't buy the damn game, when it's finally released!

I'm sorry, but this is just ridiculous. It sounds like people demand some lawful right to impose their view on the game's designers. If you don't like it don't buy it! Easy as that.

Sheesh.