Priest Healing PvP

[Bolty]

I'm in your forums.

Destroying your posts.

[NotSoDarklord]

Very well said Bolty. Looking back on the "old" roles of priests in pvp I find the new metagame remarkably different. Priests have gone from primary healbots to some sort of offensive caster/healer hybrid. I think this shift is great, while the priest is a little more dependent on gear than other classes, priests are very much dependent on individual player skill and knowledge and have a lot of room for an outstanding player to really shine.

[Zippyy]

Oh Bolty, you're so right!

[Brista]

I find it interesting that you favour Blessed Resilience over Pain Suppression. I think you have probably made the correct choice: Pain Suppression can be dispelled, purged or spellstolen, can it not? In any event a passive beats something you have to activate by a mile since the assist train often starts with a Cheap Shot or a Charge stun.

On the other hand going for Pain Suppression means you can pick up Power Infusion and 5% stamina on the way

Next when you say

Their earnestness in trying to get one measly HK turned the fight around from an Alliance GY campfest into a win, simply because I took 4 players out of the match, effectively, for over an entire minute. Had one of them been more PvP-oriented, with Arena gear and such, I doubt I could have gotten away with it

are you referring to outlook rather than capacity for killing? With the exception of certain pvp set bonuses (eg lowered Intercept cooldowns) the PVP gear does not improve your ability to dish out damage. Or do you feel that PvP gear out damages PVE gear on players and, if so, how come?

Lastly having arena-ed quite a bit with my Paladin (but in less competent teams) my feeling now is that players are quite easy to keep healed unless the healers are disrupted. Often a match will have 3 dpsers focussing someone while 2 healers keep them up very successfully. Then we get owned when someone stops dpsing and starts shutting down the healers. We met one Mage who alternately sheeped us two paladins and counterspelled and did remarkably well in shutting down 2 paladins for approx 10-15 seconds. (I permitted the Polymorph at first since it wasnt crucial then when it started to look bad I got countered shutting down both heals and bubbles, that Mage really out-thought me and my co-healer)

Lastly some mechanics questions:
Does Silent Resolve's anti-dispel stack with Pain Suppression's anti-dispel for a total of 85%?
Does anti-dispel also cover Purge and Spellsteal?

[Bolty]

I find it interesting that you favour Blessed Resilience over Pain Suppression. I think you have probably made the correct choice: Pain Suppression can be dispelled, purged or spellstolen, can it not? In any event a passive beats something you have to activate by a mile since the assist train often starts with a Cheap Shot or a Charge stun.

That's correct, and it's why Pain Suppression is not a popular talent for PvP and the 28/33 combo is considered the cookie-cutter. An activated defense that can be dispelled just doesn't compare to a passive defense that fires all the time...and with a Warrior/Rogue on me, I mean *all* the time. :)

On the other hand going for Pain Suppression means you can pick up Power Infusion and 5% stamina on the way

The stamina's nice, but Power Infusion is a crap PvP talent. Compared to Bloodlust/Heroism, it's not even close - another common Priest complaint about why healing Priests have little raid stackability. A DPS boost on one person for 15 seconds compared to a 30% speed buff on the entire party for 40 seconds!?!?!?!? Especially since my arena teams have no offensive spellcasters, Power Infusion would do me little good. And, like Pain Suppression, Power Infusion can be dispelled or stolen!

are you referring to outlook rather than capacity for killing? With the exception of certain pvp set bonuses (eg lowered Intercept cooldowns) the PVP gear does not improve your ability to dish out damage. Or do you feel that PvP gear out damages PVE gear on players and, if so, how come?

Have you seen those PvP weapons?

Lastly having arena-ed quite a bit with my Paladin (but in less competent teams) my feeling now is that players are quite easy to keep healed unless the healers are disrupted. Often a match will have 3 dpsers focussing someone while 2 healers keep them up very successfully.

High-level arena play in 5v5 comes down to:

1) Mana
2) Crowd Control

This is because everyone's got great gear and just doesn't die easily. If someone ever gets "burst down", it's because either that side's healers were CC'ed or OOM, or else that side did a poor job of CC'ing the enemy and let 4 players tee off on someone. Nobody survives against four DPS'ers for long.

The best 5v5 matches are the ones where both sides are low or out of mana and you're desperately trying everything you can to keep going.

Does Silent Resolve's anti-dispel stack with Pain Suppression's anti-dispel for a total of 85%?
Does anti-dispel also cover Purge and Spellsteal?

Yes, but there have been reports that Silent Resolve doesn't work too well. It's hard to properly test and I don't know if anyone's put it to hard testing, but rumors are that Silent Resolve only winds up applying to the Priest's personal buffs. If I'm buffing my group, I'd want the buffs on my entire group to have a lower chance of being dispelled, not just for me.

As for anti-dispel, it does apply to Purge, but I don't know about Spellsteal.

-Bolty

[Treesh]

Compared to Bloodlust/Heroism, it's not even close - another common Priest complaint about why healing Priests have little raid stackability. A DPS boost on one person for 15 seconds compared to a 30% speed buff on the entire party for 40 seconds!?!?!?!? Especially since my arena teams have no offensive spellcasters, Power Infusion would do me little good. And, like Pain Suppression, Power Infusion can be dispelled or stolen!

BTW, you can dispell bloodlust and heroism as well. I don't know about spell stealing it since I don't have a high level mage, but they can be dispelled too. They are still better than PI, but they have the same issue of being purged/dispelled off.

[vor_lord]

Yes, but there have been reports that Silent Resolve doesn't work too well. It's hard to properly test and I don't know if anyone's put it to hard testing, but rumors are that Silent Resolve only winds up applying to the Priest's personal buffs. If I'm buffing my group, I'd want the buffs on my entire group to have a lower chance of being dispelled, not just for me.

As for anti-dispel, it does apply to Purge, but I don't know about Spellsteal.

Silent Resolve does not apply to Pain Suppression currently, that is a known bug scheduled to be fixed:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.h...ageNo=1&sid=1#6

[NotSoDarklord]

BTW, you can dispell bloodlust and heroism as well. I don't know about spell stealing it since I don't have a high level mage, but they can be dispelled too. They are still better than PI, but they have the same issue of being purged/dispelled off.

You can spellsteal these buffs.

[Bolty]

BTW, you can dispell bloodlust and heroism as well. I don't know about spell stealing it since I don't have a high level mage, but they can be dispelled too. They are still better than PI, but they have the same issue of being purged/dispelled off.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bloodlust/Heroism is something all Shamans get. Priests have to spec 31 points into Discipline to get Power Infusion, a far crappier ability than Bloodlust/Heroism, and 41 points into Discipline to get Pain Suppression.

Which can both be dispelled. Grr. :-)

So it's not shocking that many Priests say "screw that" in disgust. Oh - and the easiest way to kill a Priest is put one DPS'er on them, and one other player to dispel or purge them nonstop. This is because:

Renew
Power Word: Shield
Prayer of Mending
Pain Suppression
Blessed Resilience
Blessed Recovery
Focused Casting

Are all dispellable/purgable. These are all the instant abilities Priests actively and passively use to stay alive.

Anyhow, thanks for the info everyone on the spellsteal stuff. Seeing a Mage spellsteal Pain Suppression would be...scary.

-Bolty

[Smoogee]

Bolty, I'm brand new to the forums...found them through this post.
I have to say that my current pvp story is exactly like yours...I have slightly less arena gear, but all of the honor pieces and trinks. Priest pvp has become very exciting again, especially in BGs where rogues are expecting to drop you instantly.

I run with 366 resilience atm, and I have a question about advanced pvp gameplay.
In 3v3 arenas I am ALWAYS a first target, and I have come to expect it. My biggest problem is that I can rarely get a casted spell off, particularly mana burn. I have the focus gem, and that certainly helps occasionally, but generally speaking I get interrupted 4 out of 5 casts.

....HOW do you effectively use mana burn in an intense pvp situation?
(please assume that the opponents are sharp and are using interrupts consistently)


Some tools I have been thinking about include Talisman of the Breaker which reduces interrupts by 20%. I haven't been wearing it, favoring instead the pvp healing neck.
Mainly, though, I am convinced that I am doing something WRONG strategically or positionally since I get interrupted so damn consistently. Many rounds today we lost and it was mainly because my team lost the mana battle and I was unable to effectively mana burn.

My general pattern for arena gameplay 3v3 is to get a few initial burns and then turn to keeping myself alive. Lately though, I've been getting killed a bit quicker (probably because of a higher rating). I spent most of my time TRYING to cast but not successfully casting.

Should I try to draw the interrupt with a casted heal? Should I use a fear/burn combo? Is there something else that I'm missing here? Is offensive dispelling more valuable in the beginning?
I know it's a lot of questions, but I'd like you to address some of the more advanced strategies for priest arena healing. I certainly have some of my own ideas and patterns, but as of late I don't think they have been very effective.
Thanks in advance.
Smoogee - Smolderthorn

[Bolty]

Bolty, I'm brand new to the forums...found them through this post.
I have to say that my current pvp story is exactly like yours...I have slightly less arena gear, but all of the honor pieces and trinks. Priest pvp has become very exciting again, especially in BGs where rogues are expecting to drop you instantly.

I run with 366 resilience atm, and I have a question about advanced pvp gameplay.
In 3v3 arenas I am ALWAYS a first target, and I have come to expect it. My biggest problem is that I can rarely get a casted spell off, particularly mana burn. I have the focus gem, and that certainly helps occasionally, but generally speaking I get interrupted 4 out of 5 casts.

Smoogee, heya, welcome to the forum. :) 366 resilience sure beats my 275. Nice gear. What's the "focus gem?"

Whether or not you're the first target depends greatly on your group makeup. My 2v2 group is a Rogue and myself. While many groups go for me first there, there's quite a few who go for the Rogue first - and die horribly as a result (most Rogues are squishier than Priests).

My 3v3 group is a Rogue, Hunter, and me. The Hunter is usually the first target - Hunters are rendered ineffective when someone gets in their face, and unfortunately our Hunter is also the least geared and tends to go splat. Success rate isn't so hot.

My 5v5 makeup is Warrior (of course), Rogue, me, resto Shaman, feral Druid. Interestingly enough, most groups so far tend to go for the Shaman first and leave me alone. The temptation of removing totems and powerful healing quickly usually draws them to the Shaman like flies to a bug zapper. It depends on the enemy group makeup. Melee-heavy groups would likely go for me first, due to cloth, while ranged groups like to eliminate the Shaman.

Now, keep in mind too, none of these Arena groups are "high rated" (~2000). My 2v2 group got up to around 1900 last season and my new 5v5 is just getting to 1700. If you're higher rated, your experiences are going to be different than mine.

....HOW do you effectively use mana burn in an intense pvp situation?
(please assume that the opponents are sharp and are using interrupts consistently)
Some tools I have been thinking about include Talisman of the Breaker which reduces interrupts by 20%. I haven't been wearing it, favoring instead the pvp healing neck.
Mainly, though, I am convinced that I am doing something WRONG strategically or positionally since I get interrupted so damn consistently. Many rounds today we lost and it was mainly because my team lost the mana battle and I was unable to effectively mana burn.

If you're getting focus-fired, Mana Burn is just straight out. You'll never get it off. Once you've determined that you are the initial target, you need to go into pure survival mode and let your teammates either blow one of the enemies away or else crowd control them to relieve the pressure on you.

It does drive me nuts sometimes when there's a Priest on the opposing team, I'm getting focused, and I'm watching that Priest mana burn me down untouched. Not much you can do, though; just try to live as long as possible. Communicate to your teammates about what's the biggest threat to you so they can neutralize it.

I can never find the time to do heroic Blood Furnace runs for a Talisman of the Breaker. It's a fantastic neck. A Mage's 8-second counterspell would get reduced to a 6.4-second counterspell - that's a difference of a flash heal in time. Something to consider. So far I haven't been faced with a choice because I'm still using a PvE neck.

Should I try to draw the interrupt with a casted heal? Should I use a fear/burn combo? Is there something else that I'm missing here? Is offensive dispelling more valuable in the beginning?

All of these are answered by "it depends." What makes PvP so fun is that it's so fluid and you have to make so many decisions instantly and on the fly.

Launching a few Mass Dispels at the outset can really screw up certain groups. Other groups, not so much. It depends on who's in the group.

The big-time group buff classes in PvP are:
Priest
Druid
Mage
Paladin

Although every class can provide some buffing, especially self-buffing. But consider this: if the opposing team has a Priest in it, shooting off a Mass Dispel or two at the onset of the fight can rip off 1,000+ hit points from every opposing player. It's effectively a 1,000-point AoE done to the enemy. If talented for it, Mass Dispel only costs 734 mana. That's worth it.

Secondly, you have it right with the interrupts and "drawing out." Both Mana Burn and Mind Control should be used when focus-fired to draw interrupts. Once that gets interrupted, and your shadow school is locked out, you're free for a bit (hopefully) to use your holy spells to stay alive. If I have a Warrior in my face, I always use Mind Control on him to force an interrupt - he can't let it go through or he loses control of his character, so he has to pummel it...and then I start the Flash Heal spam.

Other than that, it sometimes just comes down to dice rolls. If you're getting focused, you're going to have Focused Casting up because crits or resilience effects will kick in. That gives you a 20% chance to resist interrupts, and Unbreakable Will + Powerful Earthstorm Diamond metagem gives you 30% stun resistance. No character can survive focus fire from 2+ characters for very long. Your teammates are a big part of whether or not you survive it - or if they can take advantage of their relative freedom to lay waste to the enemy's healer and turn it into a 2v2 or 4v4 match.

Sometimes you're just destined to die. If the other team wants you dead, it's going to happen. In that situation, how long you live determines whether or not your group wins. The reason Priests don't get focus-fired sometimes is because, like Paladins, it can just take too long to get the kill.

The best thing is when it takes them forever to kill you, they finally take you out, and Spirit of Redemption pops up to give you an additional 15 seconds of absolute free healing. All too often that winds up turning the tide of a fight. Take that, you bastards. :)

-Bolty

[TheDragoon]

The best thing is when it takes them forever to kill you, they finally take you out, and Spirit of Redemption pops up to give you an additional 15 seconds of absolute free healing. All too often that winds up turning the tide of a fight. Take that, you bastards. :)

Funny how you (who often mocked Improved Dying in the past) are finding it amazing now. :)


Overall, I would say that you should not discount a team defense. In particular, classes with crowd control can make a HUGE difference in a fight if they are given time to disrupt the other team's actions. As said feral druid in Bolty's group, I usually spend most of my time disrupting the opposing team's warriors (because they eat Bolty alive) and healers to try and keep them from killing our team members and disrupt their ability to keep their team members alive. Most of the time, it feels like I'm definitely helping the group out.

Of course, in my feral druid experience, the best (or at least funniest) part is when the opposing team's melee DPS decides that I am too annoying to be left alone, so they attack me. So I shift to bear form and laugh at them from behind my 22k armor, 40% dodge and 14k life as I hit them with demoralizing roar, faerie fire everyone and feral charge healers to lock them up. That sort of meat shield getting attacked rather than our shaman or priest definitely makes things a bit easier. :)

[Treesh]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bloodlust/Heroism is something all Shamans get. Priests have to spec 31 points into Discipline to get Power Infusion, a far crappier ability than Bloodlust/Heroism, and 41 points into Discipline to get Pain Suppression.

Which can both be dispelled. Grr. :-)

So it's not shocking that many Priests say "screw that" in disgust. Oh - and the easiest way to kill a Priest is put one DPS'er on them, and one other player to dispel or purge them nonstop. This is because:

Renew
Power Word: Shield
Prayer of Mending
Pain Suppression
Blessed Resilience
Blessed Recovery
Focused Casting

Are all dispellable/purgable. These are all the instant abilities Priests actively and passively use to stay alive.

Anyhow, thanks for the info everyone on the spellsteal stuff. Seeing a Mage spellsteal Pain Suppression would be...scary.

-Bolty

And that's why I said that Bloodlust/heroism is better than PI. I never disputed that. I never said priests should get PI or even bother to use it. I merely gave info about bloodlust/heroism that wasn't mentioned. You complained about PI being purged or spellstolen, but didn't mention that bloodlust could too. It's about the only drawback that both skills share, with PI having more drawbacks. I'm telling ya Bolty, reroll a healy shaman. ;)=D

[Kevin]

Interestingly enough, most groups so far tend to go for the Shaman first and leave me alone.

To explain that phenomenon, let me use another quote that I ran across.

Sometimes you're just destined to die. If the other team wants you dead, it's going to happen. In that situation, how long you live determines whether or not your group wins. The reason Priests don't get focus-fired sometimes is because, like Paladins, it can just take too long to get the kill.

The best thing is when it takes them forever to kill you, they finally take you out, and Spirit of Redemption pops up to give you an additional 15 seconds of absolute free healing. All too often that winds up turning the tide of a fight. Take that, you bastards. :)

Shaman die faster (just as susceptible to interrupts and stuns), have few things they can insta cast to keep the purge bots busy, have less resistance to push back and only have earthshield and NS as instants (both can be purged, even macro'd I've had NS heals stopped because the NS gets purged before it is used or I get stunned before the heal goes off). Yes they have a bit more armor, but armor means nothing vs warlocks, priests, mages, some druids, and some shaman, and doesn't mean as much vs a hunter (arcane shot is magic damage and any hunter will use it as part of the burst rotation). I've mentioned it elsewhere, the only healers easier to kill in arenas (or at least neutralize) are resto druids who can be purged away just like a priest but have fewer tricks (go bear form eating mana and removing the ability to heal party mates at all).



The reason to leave a shaman alone and kill the priest or pally that takes longer to kill first, is that the shaman is the only class that can you can just interrupt away all the heals. The paladin can bubble and heal for a bit without fear and they can spec to make it harder to interrupt them. The shaman you can just shock, CS, kick any heal they can cast on a party member. If you have good interrupts you nullify the shaman that way and take longer to kill the priest who will almost always last longer because you use the same method to kill both classes and the priest has more tricks to survive it.

I play a shaman and a hunter in 3v3 (crap level for both teams and the hunter just joined a 5v5 team where I am by far the most geared in my 2 BG pieces and 1 arena piece) and the advantage my shaman has is that I can use deception. I go in with all visual indicators showing healing/casting. But I'm enh. So after I get hit and stunned and get my first heal interrupted (and I will generally give the big 2.5s cast healing wave as enticement) I go dual wield and suddenly throw out 700+ DPS on our target. The interrupt was used on me and that means the priest didn't get hit with it and can heal. I really thought a enh shaman (21 in resto for NS heal) would be a big liability in arenas, but in 3v3 I think it could prove to be very helpful. Now we just need to get some gear on that team (most of us don't have any arena gear yet and only 1 or 2 pieces of battleground gear as well as no PvE raid gear) to see. But without gear I don't care how good you are getting past 1600 in end game PvE blues (not purples) isn't gonna happen. You can still be flat out, out geared in arenas.

[NotSoDarklord]

Whether or not you're the first target depends greatly on your group makeup. My 2v2 group is a Rogue and myself. While many groups go for me first there, there's quite a few who go for the Rogue first - and die horribly as a result (most Rogues are squishier than Priests).

I don't understand the die horribly as a result part of your statement. I'm running with a priest now in season two (specced holy disc similiar to your build) and the absolute nightmare teams for us are the warrior X teams that go for myself, the rogue, from the start forcing a zergdown strat for the warrior with timed cc on the healer. The teams that do spend the entire time on our priest are more or less the only warrior x teams that we beat regularly. Just a nit I suppose but since warrior paladin warrior druid warrior priest even is more or less flavor of the month (for the past 4-5 months) I'm suprised to see you say that O.o

[Quark]

I don't understand the die horribly as a result part of your statement. I'm running with a priest now in season two (specced holy disc similiar to your build) and the absolute nightmare teams for us are the warrior X teams that go for myself, the rogue, from the start forcing a zergdown strat for the warrior with timed cc on the healer. The teams that do spend the entire time on our priest are more or less the only warrior x teams that we beat regularly. Just a nit I suppose but since warrior paladin warrior druid warrior priest even is more or less flavor of the month (for the past 4-5 months) I'm suprised to see you say that O.o

It's been the exact opposite for us. The best was when we fought a Warrior/Druid team we know from Stormrage. Warrior and I duked it out for a long time, me always getting away with a timely gouge or stun to survive. When the druid went low on mana, the warrior flipped to Bolty and ripped him to shreds - right as I finished him off. The druid was pretty easy after that.

[Bolty]

I don't understand the die horribly as a result part of your statement. I'm running with a priest now in season two (specced holy disc similiar to your build) and the absolute nightmare teams for us are the warrior X teams that go for myself, the rogue, from the start forcing a zergdown strat for the warrior with timed cc on the healer.

It's odd; we have the opposite experience. It probably depends on a number of factors. What kind of Rogue are you, talentwise? Are you daggers?

My Avatar of War (my affectionate name for He Who Kills Things While I Heal/Disrupt/Annoy) is a dagger Rogue quite skilled at keeping enemies under control. We've won matches against the Rogue/Priest's worst enemy, MS Warrior/Holy Paladin, with my Rogue and the enemy Warrior duking it out while the Paladin and I stand on opposite sides and heal our constituents. Without me even getting a chance to mana burn (Paladin's too smart to let me get close), we win the mana war. We shouldn't. But somehow we do. Part of it may be gear, part talents/spec, but a huge part is the amount of control the Rogue exerts over the Warrior in terms of prevention of damage via Stuns and poisons and such. Plus, he's a rabid twitch player who just outmaneuvers the hell out of people.

We have much less success when the Warrior wakes up and tries to kill me first instead. I have to blow much more mana healing myself than my Rogue in this scenario, and it's typically a loss. Yes, a Rogue and a Priest have around the same armor, but I have...what, 40 agility? I don't exactly dodge much (although one time on a wipe to Malchezaar I dodged 2 hits and then parried one before he one-shot me; wish I saved that log because it made me bust my gut). Blade's Edge is a nice arena for this because sometimes I can get lucky and MC the Warrior to throw him off the bridge and buy some time to harass the Paladin, but...eh.

Warrior/Mage? Had a match where both the Warrior and the Mage tried to kill my Avatar and failed, only to watch him steadily destroy them both in turn. Leave me alone and my healing will wreck you. :) ProM, Renew, Shields, Flash Heals - I can pump out a lot of healing very quickly, and that's a mana-be-damned situation. Killing the Mage fast is the only option. If the Warrior had turned instead to harass me, letting the Mage try to deal with my Rogue via the typical kiting methods, it might have turned out better for them. Trading their Mage for me would probably work out in the end, since a Rogue shouldn't beat a Warrior solo.

We also have Fear Ward, Stoneform, Desperate Prayer, etc...which helps negate quite a few CC options opponents have. A Warrior can't Intimidating shout my Rogue and then Intercept him. Yeah yeah, I know, overpowered racials ftw. Hey, I rerolled a level 60 Night Elf Priest to a Dwarf for a reason.

-Bolty

[Quark]

My Avatar of War

Goddammit, what did I start.

[Kevin]

It's odd; we have the opposite experience. It probably depends on a number of factors. What kind of Rogue are you, talentwise? Are you daggers?

My Avatar of War (my affectionate name for He Who Kills Things While I Heal/Disrupt/Annoy) is a dagger Rogue quite skilled at keeping enemies under control. We've won matches against the Rogue/Priest's worst enemy, MS Warrior/Holy Paladin, with my Rogue and the enemy Warrior duking it out while the Paladin and I stand on opposite sides and heal our constituents. Without me even getting a chance to mana burn (Paladin's too smart to let me get close), we win the mana war. We shouldn't. But somehow we do. Part of it may be gear, part talents/spec, but a huge part is the amount of control the Rogue exerts over the Warrior in terms of prevention of damage via Stuns and poisons and such. Plus, he's a rabid twitch player who just outmaneuvers the hell out of people.

We have much less success when the Warrior wakes up and tries to kill me first instead. I have to blow much more mana healing myself than my Rogue in this scenario, and it's typically a loss. Yes, a Rogue and a Priest have around the same armor, but I have...what, 40 agility? I don't exactly dodge much (although one time on a wipe to Malchezaar I dodged 2 hits and then parried one before he one-shot me; wish I saved that log because it made me bust my gut). Blade's Edge is a nice arena for this because sometimes I can get lucky and MC the Warrior to throw him off the bridge and buy some time to harass the Paladin, but...eh.

Warrior/Mage? Had a match where both the Warrior and the Mage tried to kill my Avatar and failed, only to watch him steadily destroy them both in turn. Leave me alone and my healing will wreck you. :) ProM, Renew, Shields, Flash Heals - I can pump out a lot of healing very quickly, and that's a mana-be-damned situation. Killing the Mage fast is the only option. If the Warrior had turned instead to harass me, letting the Mage try to deal with my Rogue via the typical kiting methods, it might have turned out better for them. Trading their Mage for me would probably work out in the end, since a Rogue shouldn't beat a Warrior solo.

We also have Fear Ward, Stoneform, Desperate Prayer, etc...which helps negate quite a few CC options opponents have. A Warrior can't Intimidating shout my Rogue and then Intercept him. Yeah yeah, I know, overpowered racials ftw. Hey, I rerolled a level 60 Night Elf Priest to a Dwarf for a reason.

-Bolty

Ever run into any hunters in 2v2? I know it's a rough bracket for the class but I just wonder if the pet annoyance on you helps any or if you can spare a GCD every now and then for a shield and/or renew. The 150+ DPS of the hunter pet if they were beast I don't think could be completely ignored and they could stop they could break/prevent your fear. I don't know if the stutter and the need to spend GCD on yourself would be good enough. I also don't know what you would want to pair with the hunter.

I guess I'm mainly wondering if you find a pet in your face enough of an annoyance (3v3 or 5v5) for me to keep using it that way in general. I know it works well against shaman, and it works well against pallies that aren't running concentration aura. It's not as big deal on a resto druid, but I still put it on them a lot to help burn them down (I mostly 3v3). I just wonder how annoying a priest finds it. I'm also a bit of an odd build, I think marks is probably better for PvP, but the beast/survival has it's moments (and yes I could do dailies and respec all the time, but I'd rather have that money to finish out my gem cut list, the build I have works well enough in raids, it's excellent in heroics for damage and CC, longer traps is huge, and we run with me as the only CC a lot, and it works well enough in PvP, I don't want to respec 3, 4 times a week) like popping deterrance when the warrior is on me and continuing to kill the healer or another DPS while taking no damage or a timely stun from the pet when something thinks they are going to break LoS on me or get more distance on the warrior.

[NotSoDarklord]

Very interesting. Yes a rogue can exert quite a bit of control over the warrior but with all the higher rated warrior x (especially warrior paladin or priest) teams we've found that the warrior saves his berserker rage for gouge and relies on his partner for the fear breaks. This means that I will have to try to gouge the warrior twice before I can actually gouge him and effectively waste half my energy bar once every 30 seconds or so. I can also expect to have one kidney shot trinketed every 2 minutes and have no real control over which kidney shot is broken. My blind is cleansed. I am combat mace pure pvp/arena 18-43-0 spec and not to gloat but am probably one of the best toe to toe specs for dealing with warriors. I've tried using gouge to get away as often as possible and restealthing often but in the end the warrior does manage to get his hands on me and unleash the full rage bar my hits have worked against me to accumulate, and it's all downhill. Outlast just has not worked for us.

Warrior priest is an easy matchup for us because priests go down quick with myself on the other priest and our priest offensive dispelling everything the priest does. Warrior druid is a bit more of a technical matchup with my priest trying to fear the warrior when BR is down only to run into cyclone spam whenever he does. Warrior paladin is just a logistical nightmare.