Priest Changes Coming!

[MongoJerry]

And let's not forget the best buff in the game a.k.a. Mark (or Gift) of the Wild ™ and the Druid's survivabilty as Artega says, and the ability to resurrect in combat ;)
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And innervate!

[nobbie]

And innervate!
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And that too, if you're specced that way ;)

[Warlock]

I'm hoping that the change to Greater Heal affects other long cast heal spells and that Healing Touch wll therefore lose a bit of casting time as well. HT staying at 3.5 obviously doesn't hurt Druids in an absolute sense, but without change our relative effectiveness compared to Priests diminishes making us less desirable as a replacement even when a shaman or paladin is in the group to res and it's not an undead instance.

[Quark]

And innervate!
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Problem is, in raids, unless I'm the strictly the only healer (or one of two) assigned to a person, I really can't heal already. I have every single talent a druid can get to help healing, and preists' quickness make me mostly irrelevant. Now they are going to have two heals that are quicker than my only efficient heal.

Priests and Paladins either cross or FFA healing make it so I do nothing. It's why I laugh when I hear priests talk about druids making them irrelevant -> priests' play style makes me the same.

So, of course, it's been mentioned "well maybe you should do DPS when ..." But that's not what I made Chani for. I have a Rogue already for when I want to do DPS, and I completely gimped Chani's Balance and Feral sides so that I could make her the best druid healer possible. Yet it's the druids that are the first told to stop healing, it seems. Any boss fight that has cursing, I'm on that first instead of healing.

So now we have MotW, which is improved with a Tier 1 talent. Any druid could get it (though it seems lately that I'm the only one who has it :P). Then we have Innervate at the end of Restoration.

If going 46 into Restoration doesn't get me enough benefit to actually heal in raids, what do I do now?

All of this is at least somewhat mitigated if Greater Heal's HP/s is reduced to below Healing Touch's. Then there's a theoretical point where Druids have an advantage. But I don't know if that theoretical point will ever be reached, because I'm sure Greater Heal will be efficient enough and have enough HP/s to keep any tank up.

[Luminon]

Yeah, i just started a druid and i love playing him but this makes me reconsider :( .
The good thing about druid vs. priest in the first place was their diffrence in healing style, druids mitigate damage with HoTs so they have enough time to slap on a HT, whereas priests just spam flash heal. (oversimpified of course but that's basically how it goes) Now my druid will just be a gimped priest for healing duty. Druid's versitality really is useless in the endgame, where i spend most of my time, for stuff you don't have on farming status (and having the choice to be a gimped rogue doesn't really appeal either).

Druid concerns aside, these changes are looking good! can't wait to see the new talent trees.

[Raelynn]

If going 46 into Restoration doesn't get me enough benefit to actually heal in raids, what do I do now?

All of this is at least somewhat mitigated if Greater Heal's HP/s is reduced to below Healing Touch's.  Then there's a theoretical point where Druids have an advantage.  But I don't know if that theoretical point will ever be reached, because I'm sure Greater Heal will be efficient enough and have enough HP/s to keep any tank up.
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The issue that I saw personally with druids compared to priests is that a priest which was holy specced sacrificed a lot of damage for a slight gain in healing power comparably. A restoration specced druid could be basically a better healer and still had a ton of utility compared to the priest.

Basically, a priest specced to healing could only heal, while a druid specced to healing still could do a lot more, with basically the same healing power. The fix I could see is to make priests a better healer than druids at that point, or to give them some more utility or something while going down that spec. It seems Blizzard is moving towards making them a better healer.

[Quark]

The issue that I saw personally with druids compared to priests is that a priest which was holy specced sacrificed a lot of damage for a slight gain in healing power comparably.  A restoration specced druid could be basically a better healer and still had a ton of utility compared to the priest.

I guess it's harder for me to see this point, as I leveled feral and then turned Resto. So while Priests see what I have, I see what I lost. I tanked in ZG for a little bit, and though I did alright (I think) all I kept thinking was "man, if I still had ..."

If the right things are done, I hope a Holy/Disciple priest can do as much damage as my Resto druid. The changes to Holy Fire might help that happen. Coming from previous experience though (as both a decked-out Rogue and a Feral druid), my Resto spec's damage seems paltry. So my viewpoint is skewed by my experiences.

I still highly dispute that a druid healer could be considered "better" than a priest healer. They each had their strong and weak points. I'm just afraid of the druid strong point being overwritten if they change Greater Heal the "wrong way".

Basically, a priest specced to healing could only heal, while a druid specced to healing still could do a lot more, with basically the same healing power.  The fix I could see is to make priests a better healer than druids at that point, or to give them some more utility or something while going down that spec.  It seems Blizzard is moving towards making them a better healer.
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The only way to completely fix this side of the equation would be to make feral forms cost talents. Any form, no matter how gimp it is, is better than nothing. I've done DM with hunters/pets tanking, a bad bear could certainly do it too. But if you do that, you destroy just what a druid is. In the really high-end stuff, a druid spec'd resto isn't going to come close to comparing to a warrior, and the damage is nothing compared to a rogue. So in the best of the best, a druid needs to be spec'd right to have the extra options. It's in everything else (DM, UBRS, etc) that a resto spec'd druid gets away with their utility.

I'm not going to all of a sudden turn into a bear in MC and miraculously save the raid from a wipe. Making druids obsolete at healing isn't the answer.

Of course, this is all academic if, in fact, Healing Touch will have enough more HP/s than the new Greater Heal to make it worth using.

[Luminon]

The issue that I saw personally with druids compared to priests is that a priest which was holy specced sacrificed a lot of damage for a slight gain in healing power comparably. A restoration specced druid could be basically a better healer and still had a ton of utility compared to the priest.

The point is, in endgame raids everyone is expected to specialize in what they're best at. In an optimal raid a feral druid is a waste of a warrior/rogue slot, and a balance druid is a waste of a mage slot. Verstality means squat there.
Now the reason druids are wanted in raids is because they make a good substitute for a priest, make priests too good and a resto druid is simply a waste of a priest slot.

Personally I like to feal as if I can pull my weight in a raid, but if a priest could do my job so much better, what's the point?

[MongoJerry]

Problem is, in raids, unless I'm the strictly the only healer (or one of two) assigned to a person, I really can't heal already.  I have every single talent a druid can get to help healing, and preists' quickness make me mostly irrelevant.  Now they are going to have two heals that are quicker than my only efficient heal.

But now, if Greater Heal becomes useful at 3 seconds (2.5 if the talents are worth it), then the average cast time on priest heals will become longer, making it closer to the cast times that druids use. So, now instead of having priests spam flash heal, all healers will be generally using high cast time heals. This would seem to be a boon to druids rather than a curse.

[MongoJerry]

I'd say hell froze over, but only if that sentence above included "on a PvE server."

Just yanking your chain, Mongo.  :)

-Bolty

I'll meet you halfway and say let's roll on an RP server.

[Raelynn]

The point is, in endgame raids everyone is expected to specialize in what they're best at. In an optimal raid a feral druid is a waste of a warrior/rogue slot, and a balance druid is a waste of a mage slot. Verstality means squat there.
Now the reason druids are wanted in raids is because they make a good substitute for a priest, make priests too good and a resto druid is simply a waste of a priest slot.

Personally I like to feal as if I can pull my weight in a raid, but if a priest could do my job so much better, what's the point?
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I'll give you that. The raid game is an entirely different beast. The hybrids aren't well designed for the endgame due to exactly that fact. But as it is, I still feel that priests who spec holy sacrifice a lot more than druids who spec restoration.

[teske]

But now, if Greater Heal becomes useful at 3 seconds (2.5 if the talents are worth it), then the average cast time on priest heals will become longer, making it closer to the cast times that druids use.  So, now instead of having priests spam flash heal, all healers will be generally using high cast time heals.  This would seem to be a boon to druids rather than a curse.
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Well it's probably to early to tell how the new greter heal will change priest healing.
Anyway, my thoughts are:

There are essentially two types of heals in a raid setting. (Note that I've not been to bwl yet)
Healing a tank, whom you expect to get consistently damaged and cross healing someone whom you expect to not get damaged in the next seconds.

Cross healing a druid stands no chance against a priest. That won't change, priest will continue to use flash heal for these heals. (The reason isn't that you expect them to die, but that you usely have to heal more than one.)

Tank healing is actually something at which druids are good. With two hots running, they can time their cast and choose the minimum rank of healing touch.
And if there is need for additional heal, a specced regrowth is actually more healing/second than a flash heal.

Now if greater heal is actually a lot more efficient, and it certainly looks like that is the case. It might get used for tank healing, in the classical healing rotation.

[oldmandennis]

I don't really see a problem with GH outshining HT. Figure this - absolute even class distribution is 5 druids in a 40 man raid. Even if priests >> druids, you still want a couple working their HOTs on the main tank and innervating your best priests. One feral for LOTP and one balance for moonkin aura, and you have 4 which is close enough to 5 in my book.

[Quark]

I don't really see a problem with GH outshining HT.  Figure this - absolute even class distribution is 5 druids in a 40 man raid.  Even if priests >> druids, you still want a couple working their HOTs on the main tank and innervating your best priests.  One feral for LOTP and one balance for moonkin aura, and you have 4 which is close enough to 5 in my book.
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Again, HoTs do not stack, and you're asking Druids to ignore their best spell and use their worst one simply because "priests are better".

[oldmandennis]

Again, HoTs do not stack, and you're asking Druids to ignore their best spell and use their worst one simply because "priests are better".
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Not what I said. I ment for the druids to rotate, especially for long fear bosses like Ony and Mag. Once the HOTs are up, I'd imagine that the druids would be free to cast healing touch as much as possible. The battle ressing is a unique ability to druids also.

[Luminon]

Point is, druids have their own nice at healing right now. Slow MT healing is the druids defining ability as a healer and the only thing they have on priests (where priests beat out druids in many other aspects so it's balanced). And now druids are about to lose that too, really making them second best in every aspect of play, and versitality doesn't sufficiently make up for that, especially in endgame raids.

[Wogan]

I call bull#$%&. A 5% difference in spell efficiency is not suddenly going to make druids obsolete. I think you are getting worked up over nothing here.

I have NEVER met a member of any healing class that had trouble getting a spot in raids.

[Luminon]

I call bull#$%&. A 5% difference in spell efficiency is not suddenly going to make druids obsolete. I think you are getting worked up over nothing here.

I have NEVER met a member of any healing class that had trouble getting a spot in raids.
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That's not what I meant, of course druids will remain wanted but more because of the shortage of healers than because of their healing ability.

But druid whines aside, let's hope for a talent calculator soon, I can't wait to see the new holy tree :) .

[lfd]

And now druids are about to lose that too, really making them second best in every aspect of play, and versitality doesn't sufficiently make up for that, especially in endgame raids.[right][snapback]101227[/snapback][/right]

Working as intended, surely? You're not the best tank, you're not the best dpser, and you're (going to be, subject to debate, your mileage may vary etc) not the best healer. What you have in your favour is that you _can_ tank, _can_ dps, and _can_ heal.

It confuses me that druids complain that they don't excel at any one thing. They're not supposed to; they're supposed to be good at most things.

Edit: probably worth pointing out that I have both a 60 priest and a 60 druid, lest people assume this is the priest-beating-on-the-druid ;-)

[Tal]

Point is, druids have their own nice at healing right now. Slow MT healing is the druids defining ability as a healer and the only thing they have on priests (where priests beat out druids in many other aspects so it's balanced). And now druids are about to lose that too, really making them second best in every aspect of play, and versitality doesn't sufficiently make up for that, especially in endgame raids.
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As a paladin I can spec tank, DPS, or healing and still not match a druid that specs the same. Weep in greater quantities novice. ;)