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Gaming PC. - Roland - 10-30-2003
Out of curiosity, boredom, and the need for a new PC, I took a few days to browse around the web, searching for reviews, parts, etc. to build my (eventually) up-and-coming "Gaming PC". Having used this PC as an all-purpose PC, I've finally decided that, with this one's horsepower, it will be suitable as a workstation, leaving me free to get a powerhouse PC for gaming only. Here's the current lineup:
- Case: Thermaltake XASER III V2000A (Silver) $158.00
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- Power Supply: Thermaltake Xaser Silent Purepower W0010+PFC $69.99
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- Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8KNXP $204.00
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- Processor: Intel P4 2.8GHz HT 800MHz FSB $215.00
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- Memory: Corsair TWINX1024-3200LLPT $285.75
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- Hard Drive: Western Digital WD2000JD $188.00
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- Video Card: MSI NVIDIA GeForce FX5900SP-VTD256 $339.00
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- Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum $162.00
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- Floppy Drive: Mitsumi D359M3 $8.00
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- CD-RW Drive: Lite-On LTR-52327S $34.99
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- DVD-ROM Drive: Lite-On XJ-HD166S $31.99
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- Price Total: $1,696.72<>
[st]
Sporting a beautiful case, complete with 12 bays (and built-in temperature / fan control), and made from 100% aluminum, she's a real beaut to the eye. Matching 480W power supply (with PFC, whatever that is - only cost a couple bucks more, so why not? :P) completes the housing. Intel Pentium 4 2.8 GHZ (with Hyper-Threading, and an 800 MHz FSB) CPU gives me adequate power, is EASILY overclockable (attaining speeds of well over 3.4 GHz without any added cooling, to boot!), and matches the Corsair XMS DDR3200 (400 MHz x2, or 800MHz memory bus, as well as being dual-channel, which the mobo supports :D) 1GB system RAM, complete with Platinum heat spreaders and extra low-latency. Sound card (complete with 7.1, remote, etc.) and video card (I'm an NVIDIA fan-boy, and damn proud of it. :P ATI can kiss my rear, thank you very much) are both top-notch, fitting with the "gaming" theme, rather than a more conservative "all-puporse" theme. Hard drive coming from Western Digital (yes, I'm a fanboy of them, too - always have been, and always will be. I have yet to have a single problem with ANY of my WD drives. The same can NOT be said for Seagate and Maxtor) sports Serial ATA (since the mobo supports it, times 2! :D), and a whopping 200 GBs - PLENTY of space for a minimal OS install, a few utilities, and LOADS of games. Basic floppy, CD-RW, and DVD-ROM drives complete the deal, focusing on bare-bones necessity rather than flashy features (which would go un-used anyway). A killer package, IMO, for under $2,000 (~$1700, all told).
The video card, and even the sound card, are a wee bit pricey (video especially), but I figured if I'm gonna do it, I might as well do it all-out. And, for under $400, it's a good deal, and a good deal less than new-age cards usually cost. The sound card is about twice as expensive as the next step down, but it features a remote, and some better features - and is still a whopping $100+ less than the next step up, which has loads of features I'll never use - let alone understand. ;) I decided to go with Corsair over Kingston, spending an extra ~$48 on a gut feeling. Go figure. :P As for the case and power supply - well, I've always loved those Thermaltake XASER cases, and I got the power supply to match. So long as you're not grabbing the cheapest one on the market, PS's are more-or-less equal. Major differences are sound, cooling, etc., but wattage and sound were my biggest concerns - both of which the Thermaltake passed (especially since it was the ONLY place that actually LISTED the sound level :P). Video card has an acceptable sound level, too - even less than the power supply. So, while it won't be the quitest beast on the block, it will be tolerable enough for me to leave on constantly - if I so choose.
OS setup will probably be either dual-OS (Windows 98 and Windows 2000), or just 2000. Depends, really, on how I set the drives up (may tack on a secondary, smaller drive for Windows 98, and DOS compatibility). I like 2k, mostly for its stability, but it also has good gaming compatibility. :) And, I've accustomed to it - I don't think I could deal with the constant 98 crashes, and the fact that 98 is due to be phased out by this time next year doesn't help it any. :P So, most likely a 2k OS, with a minor 98 partition for DOS games (or just a plain old DOS partition, but doubtful ;)).
I just felt like sharing. Feel free to share your thoughts - I'm always interested. I figured if I'm going to open my own business doing custom-built computers and computer repair, I might as well start getting back into the market to see what's available. :D
Gaming PC. - Olon97 - 10-30-2003
Sounds like you did your homework. I've been a little out of touch with the PC parts scene recently, but I have heard great things about the 2.8GHz 800FSB CPU.
If you haven't already, poke around the reviews and forums at www.anandtech.com - a quick search of the forums will turn up all sorts of additional information about most of those parts (good and bad).
Personally, I would drop the video card down to a 5700 Ultra (review) to save a buck or two. You'll probably get the urge to upgrade it soon enough given what's in the pipeline, so why pay top dollar now? I would also add a WD Raptor as a boot drive / current game drive. I hate waiting for load times / OS bootup time.
Given your budget, a DVD+-RW might be worth considering. You can get good models around $115 a pop these days.
I'm not so sure about the "more or less equal" comment for power supplies, but your choice is a good one. From this extensive PS roundup:
"ThermalTake came in very strong, with very low noise and very high stability. The $74 cost is high, but considering the other external fan control power supply costs $60 more, we think the cost is easily justifiable."
Enjoy building your new Gaming rig! :D
Gaming PC. - WarLocke - 10-30-2003
Wow, nice case. :blink:
I'm just about foaming at the mouth now with envy. My rig's getting a little long in the tooth, and I don't have the cash for a new one. Taking care of my grandfather is all but a fulltime job. :(
Enjoy that box, or I'll hunt you down and take it from you! :P
Gaming PC. - Roland - 10-30-2003
I can't nearly afford it right now, but I hope to be able to afford it all by Christmas time, or the end of January. Must pay off credit card bills, among other things, before I can sink my monetary teeth into making that beast. :D Won't be long, though, with me working full-time at my current job, leaving them for a SLIGHTLY higher-paying job at Macy's, and a potential 2nd job at Chesapake Knife & Tool. If I can keep from buying out CK&T, I should have the cash (and thus the machine) by the end of January. Maybe a bit later if shipping dates are long. We shall see. :D
BTW - good luck with taking care of your grandfather. Always a noble thing to care for family, and I fully understand the hassle. Take care.
Gaming PC. - Erigion - 10-30-2003
If you're going to wait that long to build it, the Geforce FX 5950 will be out, I'm not too sure the tiny boost justifies the extra cost but that'll be going all out.
By the way the new Radeon 9800XT beats the snot out of the FX 5950 ;)
Gaming PC. - Nystul - 10-30-2003
Looks pretty nice to me. I haven't really kept up on the reviews in recent months to offer specific advice. Personally, I would go cheaper on some things and upgrade (or even start over) sooner. Obviously this isn't meant to be a budget system though ;)
What will you be using in the way of speakers or headphones?
Gaming PC. - Roland - 10-30-2003
I'm not so sure about the "more or less equal" comment for power supplies, but your choice is a good one. From this extensive PS roundup:
"ThermalTake came in very strong, with very low noise and very high stability. The $74 cost is high, but considering the other external fan control power supply costs $60 more, we think the cost is easily justifiable."
Quote:Sounds like you did your homework. I've been a little out of touch with the PC parts scene recently, but I have heard great things about the 2.8GHz 800FSB CPU.
Up until the last few days, I've been completely out of the computer parts scene for many months. I just got into it about 2 days ago, and went full-on into Tom's Hardware Guide in search of a new gaming rig. My current PC, while "good", is not nearly to the level I want to be able to truly enjoy my gaming. That, and it's much more suited as a workstation than a gaming rig, especially since it's so CLUTTERED with junk. :P
Quote:If you haven't already, poke around the reviews and forums at www.anandtech.com - a quick search of the forums will turn up all sorts of additional information about most of those parts (good and bad).
I more-or-less skipped over AnandTech, mostly because I prefer Tom's Hardware, but also because they gave me all the information I needed by the time I poked my head in at the other place. I trust Tom's more, if only because I have MUCH more experience with them, and I find their layout very easy, so I'm also more comfortable with them. I don't nock the quality of AnandTech - I'm just not a regular visitor. ;)
Quote:Personally, I would drop the video card down to a 5700 Ultra (review) to save a buck or two. You'll probably get the urge to upgrade it soon enough given what's in the pipeline, so why pay top dollar now? I would also add a WD Raptor as a boot drive / current game drive. I hate waiting for load times / OS bootup time.
Actually, the 5600 from MSI is a GREAT buy at $160. It got Tom's Editor's Choice Award for the 24 (I think?) VGA cards they reviewed, and was what I was originally going to go with. Taking another glance at the benchmarks led me to crank out the cash for a top-of-the-line vid card instead of going the route I usually go. If I wanted mediocre performance, I'd just re-use my current GeForce 4 Ti 4200 64MB (4x AGP, NOT the 8x). That's not what I want. I'd rather shell out the extra $150 or $200, or whatever it is, and get an extended life on the card, while enjoying the benefits in today's games as well as tomorrow's. Besides, like I said, it's under $400, which is my upper-limit for vid cards (usually $200 is my "general" limit), so I felt it was justified. Not my usual path, but again - for a gaming-only rig, I felt the extra money was well spent. As for the Raptor, I haven't looked into those, but chances are it either a) wasn't on sale at NewEgg.com (one of the best retailers), B) was too pricey, or c) wasn't Serial ATA. Or a combination of the three. In any case, since I usually leave my PC on 24/7, OS boot time is not an issue. Combined with 1 GB of top-notch RAM, a 2.8 GHz processor (probably going to be overclocked to ~3.4 GHz), and Serial ATA drives (@7,200 RPMs, while not the fastest, is still adequate, and with an 8MB cache), it should be a non-issue anyway. I'll look into it though, all the same. :D
Quote:Given your budget, a DVD+-RW might be worth considering. You can get good models around $115 a pop these days.
Given that I won't be using my gaming-only rig for burning DVD's (let alone CDs, save for game backups and distribution of programs - like ROMs, game mods, etc.), and probably not even for watching them, I don't feel the extra money is justified. The only reason I even thre on a DVD player is for DVD-based games, which are not currently popular but still available. And, just in case I DO want to watch DVDs on my PC (although I can do that now anyway), but that's a big if.
Quote:I'm not so sure about the "more or less equal" comment for power supplies, but your choice is a good one. From this extensive PS roundup:
"ThermalTake came in very strong, with very low noise and very high stability. The $74 cost is high, but considering the other external fan control power supply costs $60 more, we think the cost is easily justifiable."
Aye, I knew I was biting my foot with that comment, but to me, I've never had a bad PS. For all the PS's I've had over the years, ALL of them were WELL under the surplus of wattage I'm shooting for with this rig, and none of them burned out, or ever gave me any problems. HDs and media drives, OTOH, I've had issues with in the past, for sure (especially the latter), not to mention CPU fans. :P But I digress. The low noise level boosted the deal, and the fact that it completely matched the case just sweetened it all the more. Besides, I don't know PS's very well at all (I've long-since forgotten the major good brands), so I'm not too picky when it comes to them. Enermax, Thermaltake, etc. are all good to me. :) Plus, I couldn't find any reviews in my (very) limited search, so I just went with what looked good - and had the most specs. available. :P
Quote:Enjoy building your new Gaming rig! :D
It's a pipe-dream at the moment, and by the time I CAN afford it, something better will probably have come along. But, even if that is true, or not, the prices will have come down a wee bit. And it is only a few months away, IF I end up building it, so it's not like I'll be leaps and bounds behind the times. I'm going with a 2.8 not only because it's cheap, and adequate for TODAY, but because it has VERY solid overclocking potential, even without added / specialized cooling, so I can get much more life out of it in the future than by plunking down an extra $200+ for a slightly higher CPU. The vid card I felt was justified. Processor? No thanks. :D I'll wait until the P5's come out and grab the top-end P4 when the price plummets, and just plop that into the same mobo (which should support it just fine), and overclock it a wee bit, too. :)
Now I just need to figure out financial matters for running a business, and start poking around for mid-range PC parts so I can gather prices, and I'll be well on my way to starting up my dream. :D
Gaming PC. - Roland - 10-30-2003
1) The 5950 offers minimal, AT BEST, performance boost (1 - 3 FPS).
2) I hate ATi. :P
And the 5950 will be out in a matter of days, as I recall, so "waiting that long" is a non-issue for that card. ;)
Gaming PC. - Roland - 10-30-2003
Haven't decided yet. I'll obviously have to grab a new (good) monitor to go with the rig, but I'm hoping I can bum that off a relative for birthday / Christmas, both of which are coming up in the next 2 months (November / December). As for speakers, probably some nice 5.1 surround sound system, in the $200 - $300 range - again, hoping to snag it off a relative for the coming holidays. I'm more concerned about the meat of the package than I am with the peripherals, as I can "make do" with my current monitor and speakers for as long as is necessary.
Gosh darnit, I knew I forgot something. ;)
BTW - looking at a ViewSonic G90 monitor, 19" flat-screen gaming monitor w/o speakers (IIRC). Provided I have the desk space, it should last me a good long time (also provided it doesn't burn out :P). Speakers I'll just grab whatever looks good at the time. :D
Gaming PC. - NinjaRooster - 10-30-2003
Ah, dear friend, I am envious of you. If only I were in a position to build a new "ultimate" gaming system.
In place of the P4, I would recommend an AMD for two reasons. You'll be giving a boost to competition AND getting a very high performace processor. Having said this, I must also say I'm a staunt AMD supporter, so my opinions are "colored." This might make an interesting reading for you.
I would also swap out an RADEON 9800 Pro 256MB in place of the NVIDIA GeForce FX5900SP-VTD256. According to the following article, the two cards perform at near an equal level. So why do I recommend the Radeon? NVIDIA's shenanigans of late with their drivers and image quality have irked me. It would also seem that they are still working on fully implementing the features of their FX line of cards, i.e, 32-bit implementation. YOu might find thisan interesting read, particularly the conclusion. You might also enjoy reading this, comparing and analyzing the latest from NVIDIA and Radeon. The conclusions drawn as well as comments on the above articles might be of interest.
But whatever you do, I believe what you currently have will make a good system. In the end though, I'll advise dropping by the Tech Report's forums asking for the opinion of the folks there.
CHEERS@@@!!!
PS. From past readings, you should be able to do better than the Audigy 2, though not much better.
Gaming PC. - WarLocke - 10-30-2003
Quote:but I'm hoping I can bum that off a relative for birthday / Christmas, both of which are coming up in the next 2 months (November / December)
Aha! Someone else that suffers from 'Christmas-Birthday" syndrome!
My birthday's in January, and I seem to get presents (err, back when I got presents...) for either one or the other, but not both. It really irked me when I was younger. :angry:
'Course, that's not nearly as bad as my father's birthday - his is December 18th. :blink:
Gaming PC. - Roland - 10-30-2003
1) I don't like AMD. It's not that I hate them - I've just always loved Intel. Always have, always will. Besides, the latest P4's totally BLOW AWAY the AMD competition (competition? WHAT competition? ;)). Not to mention buy Intel a good deal of time to roll out the "P5", and the fact that AMD has delayed the release of their Athlon 64. Nope, for me, I'll stick with Intel - and never have to worry about blowing the chip due to overheating, nor the need for a 10-pound heatsink with industrial-strength fan. :P
2) While I may not hate AMD, I DO hate ATi. And NVIDIA's "shenanigans" of late are NOTHING compared to ATi's HORRIBLE track record from past years when it comes to drivers. Plus, I just don't like their cards - all the ones I've ever used had cheap-looking performance, and other nuances that gravely bothered me. NVIDIA has yet to let me down, period - never burned out a card (despite overclocking BOTH my current cards, and running them for LONG periods of time in a PC that stays on for weeks at a time), never had any performance issues. ATi may be king of the ring for now, but I suspect that will change (as always) in the future. And, I just flat-out don't trust ATi, and it would take a miracle to earn that back. Conversely, NVIDIA would have to screw up pretty big to make me lose the years worth of faith they've built up with me thus far - having to wait a couple extra months for new drivers to truly take advantage of my new card is a small price to pay, especially since 1) that means it will probably edge BEYOND ATi, instead of falling slightly behind, and 2) current games won't see any noticeable difference anyway, so by the time games CAN utilize the excess power, the drivers will be long out, and the card's performance will be fully unlocked.
I respect your opinions, but I'm firmly set in my ways when it comes to video cards and processors - NVIDIA and Intel all the way. :D Stick with what you love. That's what matters.
Gaming PC. - NinjaRooster - 10-30-2003
Quote:I respect your opinions, but I'm firmly set in my ways when it comes to video cards and processors - NVIDIA and Intel all the way. Stick with what you love. That's what matters.
*chuckles*
Heh, what can a man say to such dedication. :blink:
CHEERS@@@!!!
PS. AMD64 is out and currently hold performace crown (AMD64 FX). Oh, and it's been quite a while since AMD processor burned and needed industrial fans. FYI :D
Gaming PC. - kandrathe - 10-30-2003
I just built two boxs around the ASUS A7N8X-X motherboard with AMD 2800 XP and AMD 3000 XP. And, I own 3 other boxes with NVidia graphics cards. Like you, I've had nothing but great experiences with NVidia. The reason I chose the architecture was simply price. I wanted the best bang for my buck, and wasn't willing to pay the $500 premium you are for your architecture. I started my research at 3DMark, and other benchmarking sites to see what hardware was performing the best, and then researched how cheaply I could get that architecture.
My Spec;
Case: Any stylish Steel ATX 10 Bay Minitower. I went with Raidmax.
Raidmax Model 268WBP(BLACK/SILVER) 10-bay Case -- $43
Powersupply: Tt or equiv -- silent and 400W or > -- I went with Allied 450W 2 ball bearing fans -- $42
ASUS A7N8X-X -- $60
AMD Barton 2800+ -- $135 or; AMD Barton 3000+ (2.17Ghz) -- $195
1GB PC3200 x 512MB Memory -- 2x$90 or $180
HD: I went with Seagate, but if you like WD,
I would use at least one of; Western Digital 120GB SATA WD1200JD 7,200 RPM 8MB Hard Drive -- $137
and finally, (I like Sony for CD devices, and I wouldn't skimp on this item) so I chose
Sony CDRW/DVD Combo Drive Model CRX300E/B2 (BLACK) -- $60
For one which was not going to be a gaming machine I went with Nvidia EVGA GeForce4 MX440-8X 64MB DDR 8X AGP -- $47
For the one that was going to be a gamers box, ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 -- $300
Add about $100 more for a nice keyboad, an optical mouse, rounded cables, a FDD, some good Tt Heatsinks with fans and you are set.
So the lower end AMD 2800/Nvidia box cost me ~ $800 -- I already had the 17" monitor for this one and the 3000 with ATI card cost me ~$310 more. I went with the ViewSonic E90fb 19" for ~ $210. I just benchmarked the AMD 3000/ATI Radeon box at between 5950 and 6100 3DMarks on air without problems. As far as I have seen just over 9000 is the max using water/and peltiers. For comparison, my old 650 mhz Pentium III with NVidia GEForce2 256 card performed at 97. I can live with 6000.
So, again, I have nothing against either AMD or Intel, nor ATI or NVidia. All of them are capable of building great product, and sometimes really crappy products as well. I am just sure to do my homework, cross my fingers, and buy stuff that has a proven track record.
Gaming PC. - Jeunemaitre - 10-30-2003
WarLocke,Oct 29 2003, 10:27 PM Wrote:'Course, that's not nearly as bad as my father's birthday - his is December 18th. :blink:/Sympathetic tone
mmm, december birthdays...
12/20 for friend from college
12/15 for me
12/14 for my paternal grandmother
12/14 for my cousin
12/13 for another friend from college
My wife and I have agreed to stop with extravagent presents (which means I shouldn't expect anything, but when her b'day roles around, I better make damn sure that she gets something that will make her say "oh, you shouldn't have..."). mmm marriage :huh:
/close sympathetic tone
Back on Topic
Oh I miss the days when I had cash to blow on a sweet PC rig. The last video card I bought was the Voodoo 3-3000. Speaking of which, does anybody have a solution for dealing with Dell's latest monkeying with AGP card slots? I pried the case of my home desktop open, only to find that they've added a division to the AGP slot, so my Voodoo will absolutely not fit. Did I buy before an update to the standard slot shape, or am I just a moron?
Gaming PC. - Quark - 10-30-2003
Roland,Oct 30 2003, 01:39 AM Wrote:1) I don't like AMD. It's not that I hate them - I've just always loved Intel. Always have, always will. Besides, the latest P4's totally BLOW AWAY the AMD competition (competition? WHAT competition? ;)). Not to mention buy Intel a good deal of time to roll out the "P5", and the fact that AMD has delayed the release of their Athlon 64. Nope, for me, I'll stick with Intel - and never have to worry about blowing the chip due to overheating, nor the need for a 10-pound heatsink with industrial-strength fan. :PIt's just not true ... as the above link to TheTechReport and other websites have shown, the AMD 64 3200+ (which isn't even the high end model) can beat Intel's that's rated 1GHz higher. Many websits point out that P4 Extreme Edition (which is just a remarked Xeon) and Athlon 64-FX are evenly matched. Not nearly as many point out that the AMD chip is cheaper, and more importantly, already available.
That said, the price point you have there is still too low for any Athlon 64 chips - Intel's chips just had a price cut and though AMD followed suite, they didn't lower the new 64's prices. The Opteron chips, on the other hand, look very attractive right now. They have recieved a price cut, give you basically the same performance as Athlon 64 (depending on the situtation and it's memory needs), and support multiple processors. Remember that 2000/XP already support SMP, even if the programs don't. I know I'd love that for my constant playing of Winamp. If I were getting a system right now I'd go for a single Opteron with a dual-motherboard. Then I could get that second CPU later on for an instant bonus - and no motherboard/memory upgrade necessary at all.
The downfall to Opteron is that it requires Registered ECC memory - more expensive and a small latency increase. The reason for this? Check out This page of a FiringSquad article. It shows that given Intel's current architecture, adding in memory chips can kill your performance. I would hate to upgrade my memory and lose performance. But Intel chose that path - they killed the latency with certain configurations.
Personally, I'm waiting for either the next price drop or the next line of Athlon 64s.
Oh yeah, I agree about ATI mostly, though until the latest set of drivers came out (Nvidia's good, Ati's bad) I was starting to ponder switching.