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"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - Bolty - 04-05-2004
Another week has gone by. I'm now level 21. Mages still stink, but last week I had accepted that.
The Blizzard Mage Forum is abuzz with talk on how to balance the Mage class. Everyone agrees that they need work, but nobody can agree on how to fix them without making them the uberclass. At first, I agreed with others' opinions that removing "stuttering" (the ability for mobs to interrupt your attacks) would be a bad idea. I'm starting to lean toward the other side now. I think removing stuttering would be a good way to balance out the Mage and bring them up to the other classes, while not turning them into gods.
In balance discussions, it is always assumed that you are referring to a battle against a monster of a level equal to you. Then, of course, there's PvP balancing, but that's a whole 'nother issue (if you're wondering, Mages are so bad at PvP that it's a practical joke; read the Blizzard forums for examples - such as the fact that a Mage has to face his/her target to hit it with a spell, so enemies can just run circles around the Mage, interrupt his/her attacks, and emerge unscathed). A Mage is excellent under one scenario: fighting a melee monster, one-at-a-time, that is not resistant to cold attacks. In fact, they downright rock in that situation, although they'll have to stop to drink afterward to regain the massive mana amount they used up in order to smack the single mob down quickly. In any other situation, Mages are in trouble.
1) Ranged attackers: unable to stop the monster from attacking, the Mage cannot get off consistent attacks because his/her attacks are interrupted. Also, cannot flee from the monster due to his/her low HPs - death comes long before escape distance is reached.
2) More than one attacker: with no crowd control methods available except for Frost Nova, the Mage has to pray that one cast of the Nova can freeze both monsters in their tracks. If they're both melee, and they both are frozen, the Mage has a chance of survival. Provided the Mage doesn't run out of mana, he/she can sometimes handle 2 at a time, but to do so regularly is suicidal.
3) Downtime: after practically every fight, a Mage needs to stop to eat and drink to regain lost hit points and mana. Failure to do so is a death wish, since you never know how many attacks will be resisted in your next fight. If a mob resists your spell, it does ZERO damage and you lose the mana points for the cast, a double-whammy that really hurts.
If the "stuttering" effect of Mage spellcasting is removed, the dynamic changes. If the Mage then takes on 2 mobs at once, he/she can actually get some attacks off. Fireballs (the mainstay spell of the Mage) take 2.5-3.5 seconds to fire, and if the Mage is being hit during that cast, it can take upwards of 7-10 seconds since the timer keeps getting reset. Return the Mage to 2.5-3.5 seconds per cast and he/she has a fighting chance when taking on more than one mob at a time. Remember that the Mage still has very few HPs and only cloth armor, so survival is still quite difficult enough already when soloing. Adding stuttering to prevent any offensive activity is what tipped the scales and sent the Mage down to the bottom of the playability scale.
For those who haven't played Mages yet, and don't see what all the complaining is about, imagine playing a warrior where every time you are hit, you have to wait an additional 2 seconds to attack. So if you take on 2 monsters at once, and they can (combined) hit you at least every 2 seconds, think you'll get an attack off? Now combine that with low hit points and paper-thin armor.
YES, Mages aren't supposed to be able to tank anything. YES, they're supposed to be weak. I'm not saying they should become tanks; but Blizzard should try out removing the stuttering and see how it develops. Just my opinion. I think that one tweak would balance things out - it's not like a Mage can really afford to get beat on by 2 monsters at once anyway. What would change is that a Mage could then at least get off some shots, and not be forced to only one option: running like hell (which doesn't often work).
leme witnessed this last night. After defeating a level 20 dire wolf in Duskwood (who aggroed on me since I do far more damage than his Warlock does), I was down to 111 hit points and immediately began eating. Right then, another monster spawned right next to me. I got up, cast Frost Nova to freeze the monster in place, and watched helplessly as it resisted the Frost Nova. Running for my life, with leme trying uselessly to draw aggro on the monster, I fell in a heap on the grass and sent my soul back to town.
But that's nothing, really - the most embarrassing moment was when my then-level-20 Mage took on two level 14 casters, Defias Pillagers. Now, Pillagers are tough cookies when you're that level, but a level 20 should NEVER even be threatened by 2 level 14 mobs. I didn't even take them on simultaneously; the second mob was activated only after I fired my killing blow on the first. However, the second mob resisted 2 sequential fireballs of mine and laughed as it killed a character 6 levels higher than it. No other class would have died in that situation; even Priests could have just cast Sleep (which is instant cast, by the way) on the mob and healed him/herself. I couldn't run, I couldn't stop the mob from casting at me, and its attacks kept interrupting mine. Pitiful, really.
Mages have a spell called Minor Phantasm which was supposed to deal with this; it creates a smoke minion that attacks a mob with melee. However, mobs just ignore the Phantasm 90% of the time (a known problem, there are whole threads on the Blizzard Mage forum discussing how to fix this) and will come right for the Mage.
Anyway, all I'm saying is that, for now, Mages are practically Variant Scumâ¢! They're so much harder to play that they take a lot of technique and preparation before fighting each and every monster. I see Warriors and Paladins just go from mob to mob to mob in a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am manner, hardly pausing after each fight. Do that and your Mage career will be most short. :)
As one user said on the Blizzard Mage forum, "nobody ever sends a message out saying 'Party forming for the mines, looking for a MAGE!'" In fact, it really confuses the players who haven't tried one when we have to stop so often to drink up. Mages aren't popular because they tend to slow down a party - we have a lot of downtime and the others also have to constantly worry about protecting us. It's not worth it to be able to kill the mobs a little bit quicker when the spot could better be filled by another Paladin or Priest.
On the next push ("Coming Soon," says Blizzard) when the Horde characters are introduced, Mages will get a beef-up in some manner. Blizzard hasn't said how yet. Should be fun to see what they decide on, although I'd like to see them try out removing the stuttering to allow the Mage to have some offensive capability against anything other than a single melee mob who doesn't resist his/her cold attacks.
Someone had also suggested that maybe it's not that Mages are underpowered, it's that the other classes are overpowered - but Blizzard has stated all along that they wanted to design WoW so that every class is able to play solo. Blizzard recognizes that some people can only play in 30 minute segments, so forcing people to party to play the game is NOT what they're looking for. Playing a Mage solo right now is a labor of love that really makes you a better, more cautious player. Defeating your first Black Dragon Whelp (that shoots fireballs of massive damage) via the use of Dampen Magic, Minor Phantasm, Fireballs, and Fire Blasts in a strategical fight that leaves you with 13 HPs left (happened to me) was a massive thrill. But then watching a Paladin run up to one and waste it, only losing 1/4th of his HPs, takes the thrill away fast. :)
--- End constructive criticism of the Mage class ---
As I said, I'm level 21 now, so I don't yet have what I hear is the Mage uberskill - Invisibility. It's supposed to let you walk right past mobs that would annihilate you so you can position yourself strategically in fights (and escape from them, too). I believe that comes at level 26. In either case, I'm plugging along. I'm just blown away by the sheer number of quests in this game. There have to be hundreds and hundreds already, and so much isn't implemented yet. Clean an area of the game out, and return to it 10 levels later. There will be a whole new set of quests there for you that didn't appear before, making it so no area of the game gets too "old." This is a fantastic thing, although clearly as you progress there are some areas that will no longer offer a challenge to you, and the quests WILL dry up. But it doesn't happen quickly. You'll go through at least 20 quests per area, probably more, before the pool of available quests cleans out.
Elite quests (marked as such by an Elite label next to their title) WILL require a group to complete, if you want to complete them at a level that will actually give you experience for killing the monsters involved. However, for pure solo characters, there's no need to actually do elite quests. If you wanted, you could always return to try them when you're much higher level just for kicks. But elite quest rewards are not so great that they are game-breakers if you don't do them - usually the reward is just mad experience points. You can get exp anywhere.
In short, the quest system rocks. So far, I've been met with enough variety to make it interesting, although the clear bulk of them are "go out and kill x." One quest was "go out and kill x" on a timer, but it was easy enough that my solo Mage could do it - piece of cake. Hmm, but I was 4 levels higher than the mobs for that quest. And for Mages, character levels are EVERYTHING, since you only get new offensive abilities via new spells, and they only come as you level up.
I've explored maybe 30% of the world so far. I visited the Burning Steppes, an empty unfinished area that Blizzard will let you walk through. It's an exact ripoff of Mordor from the Lord of the Rings movies. I could practically see Sauron's eye at the top of the high mountain there if I squinted just right. ;)
Hmm, this report is getting long, isn't it? Right now I'm having a lot of fun, even being underpowered. Maybe it's some of that Variants' pride that is felt by taking a class that stinks and still getting to 21. Will I still be having fun 6 months from now when the beta may be winding down? That will be the true test. For now, I only hope that even more Lurkers get in for the future phases so I can start out a level 1 Priest and see what makes them tick.
-Bolty
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - FoxBat - 04-06-2004
Bolty,Apr 5 2004, 04:51 PM Wrote:--- End constructive criticism of the Mage class ---Hmm, what's with these disclaimers. Is the age of the 10-page balance rant over? :P
Quote:so I can start out a level 1 Priest and see what makes them tick.
Funny you should mention that after the no-interrupt idea. One of the priests' spells called shield (as you might know) acts as a mini bone armor, absorbing X damage before dropping. It's instant cast also, though on a short cooldown timer. A side effect of not recieving any damage for a bit is that your spells cannot be interrupted. This is how a priest can solo, albeit at an excruciatingly slow pace.
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - swirly - 04-06-2004
First let me say that I am not in the beta so am flying blind with any suggestions that I make. Having said that, I was wondering if maybe a compromise between the people who want to get rid of the "stuttering" and the people who think it should stay could work. What I am thinking of is a kind of chance to interrupt. Like maybe only 33.333333333333% of the time an attack will interrupt a spell. If you prefer a more diablo variant one could also consider having interrupts only happen when an attack is above a certain percentage of your health. A system like this could even be implemented across the board. Since melee characters have more health their attacks would get interrupted less, but still might sometimes. A mage's would get interrupted more often, but not all the time. I'm wondering if the mage is so underpowered right now that it needs to never be interrupted or if it just needs to not always be interrupted. From what I am hearing it also sounds like the melee classes could use a bit of interruptions now and again as well. I mean if you get hit hard in mid swing there seems to me to be a pretty good chance that you are going to mess up your swing. : ) I don't know how the damage system works in World of Warcraft though. If a particular monster always hits for the same amount then the percentage of life option wouldn't be such a good option. However the staight interrupt a percentage of the time option would still work. So what do you think of all of this? Does it have to be all or nothing with the interrupts?
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - Ruvanal - 04-06-2004
There are several warrior skills that are designed for causing interupts to the othe players or monsters. There is even a specific one for interupting casters. But my warrior has not bother with this because I can usually get just as good of results using a normal attack, much less having to use a special attack to accomplish the same thing. That is what many of the mages are complaining about, it does not even take a particully special type of attack to interupt them like it does for most other classes. And yes my warrior and paladin have been interupted on several occasions in the middle of fight, it just is not something can be expected to happen every time as it is happening with the mages.
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - Jarulf - 04-06-2004
Bolty,Apr 5 2004, 10:51 PM Wrote:For those who haven't played Mages yet, and don't see what all the complaining is about, imagine playing a warrior where every time you are hit, you have to wait an additional 2 seconds to attack. So if you take on 2 monsters at once, and they can (combined) hit you at least every 2 seconds, think you'll get an attack off? Now combine that with low hit points and paper-thin armor.Ehh, my warrior attack once every 2 second (or a little more than 2 seconds). And that is using a one handed weapon I think. I have had situation were monsters attacking me and "interupting" me so I could not atack. Particulary some lion like monsters over in horde land. With two of them I almost never got an attack off. Not sure if it was something special. Have not played a mage though so can't compare.
I mainly play a warrior, and perhaps I play him all wrong but I find myself having some problems. One is that I deal very little damage compared to others at my level, I might have missed something. Compared to mages, it is a joke. IN a group, I hardly get to make the first attack before the monster dies in flames of fireballs or whatever those spells are. Part of the problem is that after the first spell, monsters typically ignore me and run for the mage but still. It is a bit booring always "missing" the fight so to speak. When monsters DO attack me I handle well though being able to take damage much better, both due to more HP and higher armor. I have probably missed some good tactics and skills though, I usually don't "get it" until later after a while :)
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - Ruvanal - 04-06-2004
Jarulf,Apr 6 2004, 12:02 AM Wrote:Ehh, my warrior attack once every 2 second (or a little more than 2 seconds). And that is using a one handed weapon I think. I have had situation were monsters attacking me and "interupting" me so I could not atack. Particulary some lion like monsters over in horde land. With two of them I almost never got an attack off. Not sure if it was something special. Have not played a mage though so can't compare.What level were those monsters compared to your level? For mage a monster less than half their level with no special attacks will easily cause the stuttering of spell casting on almost every hit. The mages only hope is not be hit at all and with the bottom end type of armor that they have that is a real problem. For my warrior, the interuptions seem to only happen with special attacks that leave things like stun graphics over my head or some other detrimential effect icon being displayed in the upper left of the screen. A lot of difference where one class is only getting disrupted if special attacks are applied verses another class that can be disrupted by any attack that does damage.
Quote:I mainly play a warrior, and perhaps I play him all wrong but I find myself having some problems. One is that I deal very little damage compared to others at my level, I might have missed something. Compared to mages, it is a joke. IN a group, I hardly get to make the first attack before the monster dies in flames of fireballs or whatever those spells are. Part of the problem is that after the first spell, monsters typically ignore me and run for the mage but still. It is a bit booring always "missing" the fight so to speak. When monsters DO attack me I handle well though being able to take damage much better, both due to more HP and higher armor. I have probably missed some good tactics and skills though, I usually don't "get it" until later after a while
I have had a similar prblem with some of the others that deal out large elemental damage causing the monster to ga after them. My solution was to just concentrate on the closest non-distracted monster until they (mage/warlock/priest) realised that they could not afford for me to not tank for them. As for the damage, jsut what amount of damage are you doing compared to what you see others doing? Take some tiem to "inspect" them and see what they may have for strength, special equipment and such. I have see that many of the high damage dealing paladins and warriors are using some really nice stat enhancing armors and weapons that have been enchanted. It also looks like the may regularly be getting buffs from things like strength potions and the like. I know that when my character gets those types of buffs his damage rate can significantly improve. Couple that with some of the combat manuvers that add a lot to the attack and a resonably high skill in the type of attack that I am using and and I can some of my hits doing a lot more than twice the damage displayed on the character statistics screen.
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - Nystul - 04-06-2004
A lot of difference where one class is only getting disrupted if special attacks are applied verses another class that can be disrupted by any attack that does damage.
Having primarily played a warlock, I think it is a nice distinction. The disruption possibility becomes another factor in whether I use my spells, my wand, or my dagger (and yes, a warlock can finish monsters with a dagger if it comes down to that). Of course, the key here is that the warlock has his demons, and fear, to neutralize two mobs in a solo context, plus bloodstones etc. if things go bad. A priest is similar, having the shielding ability, the sleeping one, and the healing spell. I don't think spell disruption is the problem. It may be that mages just haven't been given a diverse enough skill set to solo effectively.
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - AtomicKitKat - 04-06-2004
Being unable to even SNIFF the beta, I can only hazard a guess that the Minor Phantasm spell is similar to the Amazon's Decoy ability. It might be that maybe someone missed a decimal point when setting the Phantasm's "attractiveness" (example, if they meant 1.1, and hit .11, the mobs will go after the mage 90% of the time), or possibly the MAGE has that high level of "attractiveness" Unfortunately, nobody here has access to the coding, so I would say that it MIGHT help to bring this up to the GMs, and ask them to speak to the coders about it. :)
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - FoxBat - 04-06-2004
I don't think there's anything that mysterious going on here. Mages when they want to, and have the mana reserves, can deal gobs of damage in a few seconds. As bolty correctly puts it, one or two shots makes all the difference with a mage. Deal more damage in less time and you're going to make monsters angry at you. By contrast, warlocks use many slow DOT effects and their minions do much of the hurting, and preists don't do much damage at all. (Though heal does cause aggro, it's not as bad as with mages direct damage...)
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - TaiDaishar - 04-06-2004
Quote:It may be that mages just haven't been given a diverse enough skill set to solo effectively.
Even though I am not in the beta I think this above statement is true.
Mages should have more diverse spells, ones with no casting time at all and/or have different range rates etc' that way a mage could solo using spells for each situation, for example:
When first attacking a mob use a long ranged powerful spell that will most surely have a big costing time and then move to things with perhaps lesser damage but significantly LESS casting time, like in Diablo 2 there are spells without cooldown that you generally spam between the big spell (Frozen Orb, Meteor, etc') something to that extent should be in here too.
Also if what Bolty says is true about mages' downtime (which I have no reason to not believe) something should be done about it, even if you are the strongest character on earth but needs to sit down after EVERY mob you'll become not very popular in groups not to mention it'll get boring fast.
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - Raziel - 04-06-2004
Okay. I know next to nothing about WoW. So please read this little post with a grain of salt.
It really sounds like Mages need a way to take the heat off. Plain and simple. Sounds like the old problem I had on Duris, where mobs/players would just "bash" the mages, knocking them off their feet and interrupting their spells. With a good set of warrior tanks, the opposing mages would be on the floor in seconds, and have no chance in battle at all.
This Minor Phantasm thing sounds like a good idea, sort of as a fragile tank while the mage blasts away. If it had a very high aggro for monsters, but was very weak, it would do the job to an extent.. drawing attention, while not actually "tanking" in any way that compares to a real party member.
The problem is how do you stop a class that, if unchallenged, will basically own monsters, but if challenged, will be so penalized as to die?
Energy Shield (from Diablo 2 Sorceress) might be another idea to consider. If it can absorb some of the damage dealt to the mage, essentially saving the mage at the cost of their mana pool, it could go a ways to rectifying the problem. Of course then you need even more downtime between fights.
Concentration (from Diablo 2 Paladin's Concentration aura) is another idea - a passive skill that decreases the chance of interruptability. Do Mages in WoW already have this? If not, why the heck not?
Warmth (from Diablo 2 Sorceress) is my third suggestion - a passive skill that allows the caster to regenerate mana without the need to sit down. I mean, think about it!! If you blow a lot of your mana per fight, it stands to reason that you should be able to regen it back faster! Apparently warriors regenerate "rage" by scoring hits. Mages have no such option. Perhaps they should?
The thing is, Mages spells get more damaging over time. So the less "chains" you hamper them with early on, the further they "break out" when their spells mature at high level. This results in the common formula of ridiculously weak mages at low levels, because they are so "chained" in order to balance the very high levels to some semblance of fairness. What's needed is a way of balancing the mages in a manner that changes as the mage grows in power. Perhaps base the chance of interruption on the mana cost of the spell - the more magic you need to summon to cast it, the more vulnerable you should be to interruption. This would mean that the lower level, cheaper spells would remain more useful for longer as they would be harder to interrupt because of their simplicity! Alternatively, you could base it on how long the player has had the spell in their repertoire - spells they JUST gained would be more of a fumbling affair than spells that they've known for 5 levels, for example.
From what I understand, interruption when hit is almost a sure thing. It needs to be a flexibile chance, probably based on the mana of the ability being used or how "long" the spellcaster has "known" the ability. One of the features of Duris/Sojourn was that if you just entered the specific circle (level grouping) to learn a spell, there was a chance you would fail to cast it. Once you moved to the circle above (level grouping for the new set of spells), all the old stuff was a sure-fire affair.
This naieve post brought to you by the association of frenzied bovines.
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - nobbie - 04-06-2004
Raziel,Apr 6 2004, 12:47 PM Wrote:Okay. I know next to nothing about WoW. So please read this little post with a grain of salt.How about some Knockback effect on a Mage aura/shield, if such things exist in WOW? I'm thinking of something along the lines of the D2 Paladin's wonderful Sanctuary aura, just for Mages and that it works on all monster types, not just the Undead :)
It really sounds like Mages need a way to take the heat off. Plain and simple. ...
As far as the spell power balancing problem goes (low char level vs. high char level), a good Synergy system for Mages would be a solution, but that requires some serious thinking and extensive testing :)
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - TaiDaishar - 04-06-2004
Many people seem to forget that there are ranged monsters in the game as well, and from what I'm hearing the chances of mages against ranged mobs is null, so I doubt this knockback thing will do much against ranged units.
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - nobbie - 04-06-2004
TaiDaishar,Apr 6 2004, 02:07 PM Wrote:Many people seem to forget that there are ranged monsters in the game as well, and from what I'm hearing the chances of mages against ranged mobs is null, so I doubt this knockback thing will do much against ranged units.That's correct, but Mages should remain vulnerable against some attacks :)
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - TaiDaishar - 04-06-2004
nobbie,Apr 6 2004, 05:19 PM Wrote:That's correct, but Mages should remain vulnerable against some attacks :)They're vulnerable against ANY attack, basically, from what I'm hearing, is that if your mage is getting attacked then he'll bite the dust soon afterwards.
Even Bolty said he can deal to some extent with melee mobs but hardly has any chance against the ranged mobs because they'll annihlate him due to stuttering and low hp/armor.
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - Raziel - 04-06-2004
^ Then mages need a form of armor/hp. That's why I suggested Energy Shield, with a Warmth-like skill to regenerate the mana quickly between battles.
No single initiative will solve the problem, because a single fix would be unbalanced in some other way - sort of like dropping a huge weight on the other side of the scale. Instead, the fix should be undertaken carefully, with several small initiatives that, when combined, balance out the Mage, but only if used correctly.
Eg Energy Shield + Warmth + interrupt chance based on mana consumed/level spell was gained.
Little initiatives that, by themselves, aren't unbalanced and don't solve the problem.
(i'm surprised nobody had a go at me for my utter naievety!)
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - FoxBat - 04-06-2004
Spell synergies would be mostly pointless in this game, because there is no customization as to acquiring spells and many other "abilites". You just have to be a certain level and pay a fee at a trainer, and you can take as many of them as you like. So every character will end up learning just about every spell for their class eventually. Maybe I can make a seperate post talking about character customization or the lack therof; those coming from D2 will be a little disappointed. The lack of customization is key to some of the excellent balance and tactics in WoW, and thus I don't see it changing anytime soon.
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - Ruvanal - 04-06-2004
Here is a listing of the spells in the game. I think it is fairly up to date and acurate.
http://www.warcraftcentral.com/db/spells/
Note that most of the combat type spells or effects for the various classes typically will fall into two catagories.
a) a casting time to kick the spell off at the end (see Fireball).
B) instant or near instant effect with cooldown afterward before you can do it again (see Fireblast).
Also the game basically replaces the lower rank of spell with the higher one when you learn it so you will not have access to say two different ranks of Fireblast to fall back on.
Also the current stage of the beta test has character level capped at 30.
^ Then mages need a form of armor/hp. That's why I suggested Energy Shield, with a Warmth-like skill to regenerate the mana quickly between battles.
There is Mana Shield rank 1 available at level 20. While I have not gotten my mage above level 9 yet, based on what my fighter has been getting hit for in the upper teens, I would not expect that shield to stop more than 1.5 hits worth of damage when you get. Bolty can comment on if the Mana Shield will actually prevent the stuttering or not. Also the rapid loss of 120 mana may put the mage in tight spot as far as his reserves are concerned.
As far as a Warmth-like skill there is the effect of the stat Spirit on the characters recovery of life and mana. With a moderate boost in this stat the effect is greater for the characters life and mana than a high level Warmth skill is for a D2 sorceress. To give an idea, I was doing a quest with another fighter and he had to keep sitting down to eat (very fast life recovery with food) between every other encounter; this while my character just stood around on watch. My character was recovering Life faster (even though I was poisoned) the other fighter was when resting. But this type of recovery requires a big boost in the spirit level of the character to achieve (I had a strong buff running for that character level).
I have personally wondered if it might not be better for the mages to have some of their spells doing less damage with less mana cost and shorter casting/cooldown times. The average damage/sec could be maintained, but it would help to eliminate this effect of one shot suddenly making the caster the biggest threat there was to monster. As it stands now my level 9 mage can throw fireballs that have a higher average damage than the average damage of my level 15 fighter can dish out with using any buffs. The way the balance is now for the mages is that they are almost litterly glass cannons.
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - Nystul - 04-07-2004
Played a mage to level 8 almost entirely in solo mode, starting in Dun Morogh until making it to Karanos, detouring to Stormwind via Ironforge, and having now completed most of the Elwynn Forest quests except the ones on the east and west borders. I have managed to die about 5-10 times (most of those involving kelp collecting on Crystal Lake), but so far the balance seems reasonable. The big thing about that "so far" is that I have not faced any real ranged attack threat yet, and I know these will be a pain.
The thing that the mage has at this level is an insane burst of damage when he has the initiative. Target a monster 30 feet away, send a bolt spell at it, follow up with the arcane missiles, follow up with the instant cast fire spell. If nothing is resisted, you just did about 140 damage in a spurt of less than 4 seconds. Typically the melee enemy hasn't reached you yet, and it is probably dead or very close to it.
So now we bring the second monster into the picture. First monster is dead, but your mana is mostly drained, your instant spells are in cooldown, and the second monster is on top of you. Now it gets tougher. But I find myself usually surviving this situation. This usually involves a fireblast every 10 seconds, and some staff swinging in between. Maybe I try to get off a bolt spell, or more likely the arcane missiles. Maybe I drink a minor healing potion to buy some time (I usually forget that I have a huge stack of these, though). If at any point I become certain I will lose, I try to make a run for it. With most young characters, this *never* works. With a mage, you can sometimes outrun your enemy because they will be slowed by the cold armor.
"MaGeZ SuXoR!" and Other Thoughts - Bolty - 04-07-2004
Quote:Also the game basically replaces the lower rank of spell with the higher one when you learn it so you will not have access to say two different ranks of Fireblast to fall back on.Actually, this is false - I can cast Fireballs level 1, 2, 3, and 4. The lower levels cast faster but do less damage. What I'm not sure about is if a monster's chance to resist is based on the character level of the caster or the power/damage of the spell. If the latter, then the lower level spells truly are useless.
Quote:Bolty can comment on if the Mana Shield will actually prevent the stuttering or not. Also the rapid loss of 120 mana may put the mage in tight spot as far as his reserves are concerned.Mana Shield does not prevent stuttering, no. It's also really inefficient, since 120 points of damage taken will reduce your mana by 120. This puts you in trouble, since 90% of your offense is tied to your mana. One of the many suggestions for Mages is to increase the efficiency of Mana Shield - as in, perhaps 240 points of damage reduces mana by 120.
Quote:As it stands now my level 9 mage can throw fireballs that have a higher average damage than the average damage of my level 15 fighter can dish out with using any buffs. The way the balance is now for the mages is that they are almost litterly glass cannons.Very correct. Against a solo melee monster (that's non-plus), it's pretty sick how fast Mages can take them down. Frostbolt, Fireball, Scorch, Fire Blast, Frost Nova, Fireball, dead. While this uses up a good 600+ mana and thus requires the Mage to drink afterward, sheer damage per second is incredible. That is, as long as the Frostbolt and Frost Nova isn't resisted, and the Mage sticks to one monster at a time.
Since Mages will draw aggro quite a lot due to this high damage, they just need some minor tweaking - and I still think that the stuttering removal is it. The Mage would still not be able to take on more than one mob and expect to survive, but they could then get off some offense, and it would remove their HORRID time against enemy ranged attackers.
-Bolty