I'm confused about copyright laws

I'm confused about copyright laws - Printable Version

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I'm confused about copyright laws - Taem - 05-08-2004

Sierra On-Line made Kings Quest 1 a LONG time ago. I remember playing it on my Atari ST. Now I see that some other company called Phoenix Freeware is remaking it, AND making King's Quest 9 (www.kq9.org). Now, this is not a clone, but an exact remake with new areas and better graphics and KQ9 uses what I'm sure is a copyright franchise and name title. I read the article first in Gameinformer April 2004 #132 on pagte 122.

I also see how a company High Voltage Software, is going to remake Leisure Suit Larry.

How are these companies doing this legally? Why can't a similar thing be done with Hellfire, such as a diablo 1 compatable, freeware clone? I guess it would be a lot of work, but I just don't understand copyright laws... sigh.

EDIT - saw this at the bottom of Phoenix's site; that must be the answer I'm looking for:

Quote:All original content Â© 2004 King's Quest IX Development Team. "King's Quest IX: Every Cloak Has A Silver Lining" is a work of fan fiction. It is based on the popular King's Quest series, which is wholly Copyright of Sierra Entertainment, Inc. 1979-2004. It is being produced in accordance with the "Fair Use" provision of Section 107 of the United States Code, without the express permission of Sierra Entertainment, Inc. "King's Quest", "Quest for the Crown", "Romancing the Throne", "To Heir is Human", "The Perils of Rosella", "Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder", "Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow", "The Princeless Bride", "Mask of Eternity", characters, and related material are registered trademarks of Sierra Entertainment, Inc. No profits were made in the production of this game. This site is neither sponsored nor endorsed by Sierra Entertainment, Inc. If you experience an error with the site, please contact webmaster@kq9.org and for all general inquiries, contact info@kq9.org.

I'm confused about copyright laws - LemmingofGlory - 05-08-2004

And check this out: http://www.agdinteractive.com/

I bookmarked that a little bit ago. Now I've finally got time to download it and give it a try. *g*

-Lemmy

I'm confused about copyright laws - Darcia - 05-08-2004

Quote:without the express permission of Sierra Entertainment, Inc.

Makes you wonder.

I'm confused about copyright laws - Nystul - 05-09-2004

Here is the section of U.S. code the KQ9 group say applies to their work:

Sec. 107. - Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include -

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors

Note that not everyone who claims fair use actually has a valid claim. Before the existance of Napster, a common way to share .mp3 files was to put them on a website with the disclaimer "These files are made available for educational purposes only. If you do not own the album you must delete them within 48 hours."

I think that this "King's Quest IX" may indeed be an example of fair use, so long as nobody makes money off of it. It could be called a mostly original derivative work for non-profit purposes, similar to e.g. my "Tristram Gothic" poem in the poetry thread here (shameless plug). Some derivative works, such as song parodies, can even be sold for profit without permission of the original copyright holder, as long as the majority of the new work is original in nature. With the practice of cloning games, that originality gets put to the test. If someone made a freeware clone of World of Warcraft right now, that offered almost identical gameplay to the current beta, would they get sued for it? I would think so! I'm not sure if there is any case precedent for these kinds of circumstances. But I highly suspect that if Sierra asked for any of these projects to be shut down, they would shut down voluntarily rather than risking a suit in court. If Sierra asked, that would most likely mean they still have market plans for the copyright, and that they think the projects could hinder those plans, costing them money. That would be two strikes against fair use, and if the products are also almost identical in nature, that sounds like strike three.

I'm confused about copyright laws - ETA - 05-09-2004

MEAT,May 8 2004, 05:00 PM Wrote:Why can't a similar thing be done with Hellfire, such as a diablo 1 compatable, freeware clone?  I guess it would be a lot of work, but I just don't understand copyright laws... sigh.

Why can't a similar thing be done with Hellfire... Who reads EULA's when they buy a game? I know I have not EVER done more than click the OK/YES/Giveittomebaby box and owned D1 the day it came out (Bought 2 copies of D2 and 1 LOD...) after becoming addicted to the demo off of a gaming mag CD over a long forgotten holiday...

Want a better Hellfire GO TO http://www.xs4all.nl/~a3n/#Top

OMG it is v5.0 sorry I gotta stop playing Nez v1.7c and dl 5.0 for my pentium 100...

Enjoy...

PS: perhaps this says it best...

"Please be aware of the fact that this mod is not supported by Blizzard, who gave us Diablo, or Sierra, who made the Hellfire add-on. Do not contact these companies if you have questions about The Dark."

From Z&Z's site...

Personally I vote with my $ and after DTU would never buy another Sierra game. Blizzard seems to have gone south after Vivendi finshed the Sacking Raping and Plundering but only time will tell...

Time for Vodka and Hellfire in The Dark...

I'm confused about copyright laws - Taem - 05-10-2004

Alright, I see how that relates to KQ9, but for the remake of KQ1-4 by adg interactive and the soon to be made remake of Leisure Suit Larry, I just don't see how without express consent, this could be done.

I guess what I'm trying to get at here is there was a thread about downloading hellfire for free awhile back and I didn't give it much thought. I figured it was illegal because of copyright laws in America. Then I see people making clones of my favorite games, which for some reason I NEVER knew about till last week and full remakes. I also see titles in freeware sites offering games such as KQ1 in original form as it was on the Atari ST but PC compatible for free, Dungeon Master (my favorite and glad I just found out about this one), etc. Now the 50+ years has not passed for these games, but they're being offered as freeware already... They're being cloned! They're being remade! So my question is, is this legal, and if so, why not Hellfire, and if not, why aren't the game companies doing anything about it?

I'm confused about copyright laws - LemmingofGlory - 05-10-2004

What's the difference between a dead horse and a live horse?

Dead ones you beat. Live ones you look in the mouth. Well, no more beating dead horses for you! You need to go to the Mouth of the Great Horse Spirit.

Quote:So my question is, is this legal, and if so, why not Hellfire, and if not, why aren't the game companies doing anything about it?

Report the KQ1 remake to Sierra and see what they say. Be sure to ask them about KQ1 "abandonware" and whether Hellfire can be freely distributed. Return from your quest with the answers you seek or forever dishonor the name of the house of MEAT.

-So speaks Oz. Pay no attention to the Lemmy behind the curtain.

I'm confused about copyright laws - Darcia - 05-10-2004

LemmingofGlory,May 10 2004, 08:22 AM Wrote:-So speaks Oz. Pay no attention to the Lemmy behind the curtain.

O, great and powerfull Oz. Please grant me a new heart! For mine has grown dank and cold from the endeavors life has delt. And a better brain if such a thing were possible! :D

LemmingofGlory,May 10 2004, 01:22 AM Wrote:What's the difference between a dead horse and a live horse?

Dead ones you beat. Live ones you look in the mouth. Well, no more beating dead horses for you! You need to go to the Mouth of the Great Horse Spirit.

Report the KQ1 remake to Sierra and see what they say. Be sure to ask them about KQ1 "abandonware" and whether Hellfire can be freely distributed. Return from your quest with the answers you seek or forever dishonor the name of the house of MEAT.

-So speaks Oz. Pay no attention to the Lemmy behind the curtain.

Gotcha! Then go ahead and lock this thread please.

I just wasn't sure if there was a legal reason behind what was happening to these old games and was actually very confused, but I'm sure it's not legal so I'll just leave it at that.

Of final note however, what would be the point in making a game like KQ9 or a clone of a game under the loose copyright law of "Fair Use" if the franchise company told you to discontinue it after you had already spent years developing it? Seems rather risky to me and completly fruitless if they told you to stop, not to mention, couldn't they just take what you made and publish it themselves under their name for the credits?

MEAT,May 10 2004, 08:40 PM Wrote:what would be the point in making a game like KQ9 or a clone of a game under the loose copyright law of "Fair Use" if the franchise company told you to discontinue it after you had already spent years developing it?

If you had played Sierra's adventure games since the beginning, you might understand.

Quote:If you had played Sierra's adventure games since the beginning, you might understand.

Perfectly stated. :)

-Lemmy