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The Best Game Ever? - Artega - 06-21-2004
I just completed Neverwinter Nights' original campaign. A supposedly 60-hour-plus adventure that I completed in just under 22 hours. Makes me wonder where the hell they get those gameplay-time estimates from.
Before playing NWN, I had thought that Black Isle's Planescape: Torment was the best overall game I'd played as far as storyline went. Now, I'm not so certain. Torment's storyline about an immortal amnesiac traversing the planes in search of himself was rather stirring, and the NPC interactions were well done for the most part. NWN's storyline about a nameless (damn, how I hate that "generic hero" crap) hero who saves the city (multiple times) and (can) also save a paladin who fell from grace was also pretty well done, though parts of it were a bit trite.
Both games have pretty good PC-NPC intra-party interactions (woohoo! big words!), with the Nameless One being able to talk at will with anyone in the party, and with the PC in NWN being able to do much the same. NWN has an advantage and a disadvantage here: you're required to do adventuring (i.e. leveling up) in order to further your relationship with your loyal meatshield (a.k.a. henchman), but there's also a disadvantage in that you get to complete yet another FedEx quest (i.e., find the item and bring it back, much like the rest of the game) in order to "complete" the conversation for that chapter, and once the conversation is completed, there's nothing else to talk about.
NWN downright dominates as far as gameplay is concerned, which isn't much of a surprise, given Torment's focus on story-over-slaughter. There are some gripes about the OC, however; Potions of Heal, while necessary, are almost stupidly powerful. My Paladin could be down to about 35 of his maximum of 198 HP, and with a single gulp, he's back to full HP (minus the chunk or two of HP torn out while the not-usually-little nasties got from Attacks of Opportunity), AND cured of poison and other niggling defects. It also seemed that the game has an almost die-hard bend on making people use a few certain types of weapons, which damn near ignoring the others (heavy flails, halberds, spears, and bastard swords, anyone?), and this was furthered by my experiences with the blacksmiths in the game. Bring a magic weapon and a certain component, pay the ornery dwarf, and you have a newer, shinier magic weapon. Unfortunately, not all of them are created equal; a few weapons absolutely shone with brilliance (Drone +4 and Ravager +4, anyone?), while the others were, quite simply, absolute crap (Astral Blade +2, Harbinger Kin +3, and just about everything else) compared to what could be bought and/or found elsewhere.
I was pleased to see that NWN shared the random-treasure aspect of the IWD series, though I think it was a little broken; I was downright elated to find a Golden Circlet in the very first "boss chest" in Chapter Two (the big trapezoidal chests that almost invariably have one of those massive traps that almost kills you, and obliterates your henchman), but after finding the 16th (!) one in a chest in Chapter Four, I was wondering when I'd start finding big, mean swords and such.
It pains me to say this (after a fashion), but I really think that Paladins are overpowered in NWN (or perhaps 3E Rules); while multiclassing to a Fighter for the extra couple of combat Feats and the Weapon Specialization Feat is a viable alternative, I found that going pure Paladin all the way to Level 16 (my final level, after butchering Morag) was so powerful that it bordered on broken. With the ability to cast Bull's Strength (raising my strength to around 20-22, typically), and the ability to cast Eagle's Splendor (raising my charisma to around 25-28, typically), I was able to EASILY mete out 19-28 damage a shot with Drone +4, and my saving throws rivaled those found on Dragons and other such monsters. I easily beat the two-Dragon guard right before Morag (I was disappointed in having to kill a Silver dragon, though) alone (Linu got scared and promptly torn to shreds by the Dragons), and the Baalors were a joke. With a bonus of +7 or +8 from my Charisma, my saving throws were astronomical, I could obliterate or turn all but the most powerful of the undead, and I could skyrocket my damage and AC for a short while with Divine Might and Divine Shield.
Even Morag was pretty damned easy; after annihilating her two "hands" (I scored two criticals totalling to 139 damage on my first two hits on one of the poor bastards), I killed the statue (and we had to do this how many times with other bosses?), killed her protection from maces worshipper, and then beat her (literally) into submission. And they say Premonition is too strong.
The Best Game Ever? - WarLocke - 06-21-2004
While I also liked NWN, I'd be hesitant to call it one of the best games ever. I can think of several RPGs alone that I'd rank higher than NWN (Torment, Fallout 1/2, KotOR, Baldur's Gate 1/2). NWN was pretty good, but not in that weight class, at least in my opinion.
I find myself agreeing with you on NWN's drawbacks. I played through as a single-classed Paladin as well, and ended up with something like 6 or 7 Bags of Holding full of Heal potions. I even used Linu for most of the game. And the end was terribly anticlimactic for me, at level 19.
That's always bugged me, too. Whenever people talk about NWN, it seems like everyone ends the OC at around level 16 or 17. I have no idea how I made level 19 (and only a few thousand experience from 20, if memory serves) in the same span.
Now I wish I could play through it again. :P
EDIT: Wow, I forgot Morrowind! And Deus Ex isn't quite an RPG, but yeah, it's up there.
The Best Game Ever? - [wcip]Angel - 06-21-2004
I finished NWN twice; once with a paladin, second time with a wizard. I'm not sure what to make of the game. It was fun completing it the first time, but when I was done the second time, I swore I'd never play the thing again, I was so bored with it. My main gripe is that I never got into the items. I seem to remember I had to nick every little piece of crap and sell it to a vendor in order to be able to buy something neat. I never *found* anything useful, so I had to pick up all sorts of torches and daggers at 1-10 gold-pennies a piece, transport back to town, find the nearest vendor, and unload them. Quite an arduous process, if you compare it with Diablo II, where you frequently find better items than what you are already equipped with. (At least during the first 40-50 levels.)
I also didn't care for the dialogue. I would have managed if every word had been spoken, and I didn't have to read everything, but when you're anxious to get out and slay that red dragon (what was his name again? He was big and next to a long bridge traversing a pool of lava.), you're really not all that patient about having to listen to people's stories about how little Timmy got lost in the well. During the second run through the game, I didn't even bother reading the text. I knew what was going to happen and what I had to do. This was also the problem in Morrowind for me; too much conversation with people you really didn't need to talk to. Speaking of Morrowind, I think its vastness and lack of linearity is what makes this the best RPG ever (discounting Deus Ex, of course.)
The Best Game Ever? - Zarathustra - 06-21-2004
If you ask me, the Official Campaign that shipped with NWN (as well as those with the expansions) were merely vehicles to show off what the toolset could do. For many gamers, the ability to create one's own modules was/is the high point of this game.
I'm still playing NWN, but more in the style of a tabletop game. I've got a group of six or seven guys that I play with, and we're going through things as if it's a game of D&D; one DM, actually rolling a d20 for skills not provided for in NWN, and using Teamspeak while playing so it's all pretty much the same as sitting around a table with a group of guys playing the game. It's been a LOT of fun and all involved have had a chance to go ahead and build areas we'd be heading into next.
I wouldn't go as far as to claim any one game the "greatest of all time", but I have to say NWN ranks fairly high just because of the possibilities it provides. Imagine if Diablo 2 shipped with a toolset that allowed you to create YOUR OWN GAME. I'm not talking about a modification to the current game. I'm talking your own campaign with 5 Acts, your own quests, etc., totalling the same amount of game hours if not more than the original game. Even control over the aesthetics so that the areas you make look nothing like those in the original game. That would be huge, and that's precisely why NWN shines.
Only downside is that every time I get a great idea for an area/trap/enemy/whatever, I know it's going to result in the death of one of our characters. :blink:
The Best Game Ever? - Cryptic - 06-21-2004
Hmm ... I've been gaming for awhile, so I'll split this out by era.
:P
Best "vid-RPG" game of the 70s:
1st: Zork
2nd: 2600 Adventure
3rd: Miscellaneous rogueish crawls
80s:
1st: Wasteland
2nd: Ultima IV
3rd: Enchanter Trilogy
90s:
1st: Torment
2nd: Diablo (sorry, story is lacking but gameplay is stellar)
3rd: Fallout 2
00s:
So far, KotOR. I have high hopes for WoW, Guild Wars, and Dawn of War.
B)
The Best Game Ever? - Nystul - 06-21-2004
I just completed Neverwinter Nights' original campaign. A supposedly 60-hour-plus adventure that I completed in just under 22 hours. Makes me wonder where the hell they get those gameplay-time estimates from.
I think it took me at least 60 hours the first time through, and possibly closer to 80 (although I think 60 was an accurate estimate for a typical "first run" through the game). I really can't explain how you could get done so fast. I'm sure tank classes can play faster than casters, and I'm guessing you didn't go out of your way to find and complete every side quest like some people tend to do. It may also be that the expansion packs have skewed the nature of the official campaign somewhat.
Before playing NWN, I had thought that Black Isle's Planescape: Torment was the best overall game I'd played as far as storyline went. Now, I'm not so certain.
These comments are frankly a little bit surprising. The official campaign is certainly not considered NWN's strong point (although to be honest most user-made content is not nearly as good as the campaign). A lot of people who bought NWN hoping for something like Baldur's Gate or Torment were really let down by the campaign. Personally I thought it was a lot of fun, but more as a hack'n'slash than a real roleplaying experience with an epic storyline.
In any case, the flexible package that NWN brings to the table is something that no other CRPG has attempted to match. If you want a decent combat and loot system for unlimited hack'n'slash replay, it's available. If you want real NPC dialog and quests that involve some thought process, it's there. If you want to get a group of players together and play PnP style through a module or campaign, you can (although designing a worthwhile campaign would be quite an endeavor). If you want to interact with other players in a private or semi-private "persistant world", you just need someone willing to host the server. And if you want to download and play a new community-made crackpot adventure every week, you could probably go 5 or 10 years without running out of crackpot adventures to try. It is, if nothing else, a fairly unique game. That is pretty rare in itself.
The Best Game Ever? - pakman - 06-21-2004
I liked NWN, but now it crashes everytime I try to play the expansions.
Morrowind was a great game, I never actually finished it. The farthest I got was being head of the thieves guild and then I started to work on the assassin guild. I only got to the part in the official quest where I had to go to the remote village and complete the 3rd test. It was a great game..the story is incredibly intriuging.
Deus Ex, while being a first person shooter, also had a lot of RPG elements. You could be your own navy SEAL by cconcentrating on swimming and demolitions. Or you could be a ninja focusing on things like speed, computer hacking, and stealth pistol. There were several ways to complete the missions and there were three endings to the game.
Half Life is up there with great games because it had the greatest graphics at the time and it actually had a twisting plot. You never had enough ammo and at the end of the game you were still beating things with the crowbar.
KOTOR is one of the best RPG's I have played to this day. I have yet to go through being on the Dark Side. The sidequests always relate in someway to the main quest...Force Persuade is one of the best skills ever :)
One of the more recent games that I enjoyed a lot was Far Cry. This game not only looked really good, but it had smart AI, huge environments and several different ways of completing the missions. You could run in shooting, or you could scout people out with the binoculars and take them out one by one.
I don't think there is a "best game ever" per say, but there have been may great games.
The Best Game Ever? - [wcip]Angel - 06-21-2004
I completed Far Cry twice. I really enjoyed playing through the game, and I chose the "sniper from far far away"-tactic every chance I had. What really ruined this game completely, were the lack of a decent baddie.
If you haven't played the game, but plan to, you might want to skip the rest of this post.
Up until the 2nd or 3rd last level, your villain is some sort of mad scientist who became one of his own creations (as far as I remember). His raison d'être was to make sure his Darwinian ideas of 'survival of the fittest' resulted in the end of the human species, and the herald of a new beginning for these mutants. Now, there's nothing wrong with this really, but towards the end, this guy is betrayed by one of his allies; one who is purely in it for the money, and is killed. This new guy becomes the new villain for the last 1-2 levels of the game. At the very end of the last level, right before you put a bullet in Mr. "I'm only in it for the money", he calls out something like "You can't stop the future" or something to that effect. Now excuse me, but what the hell just happened here? Did the writers simply forget that they had changed the villain? Suddenly the personality traits of Mr. Mutant-Darwin were imbued into this commercial, capitalist little twat!
This really annoyed the crap out of me!
The Best Game Ever? - Drasca - 06-22-2004
pakman,Jun 21 2004, 02:29 PM Wrote:Morrowind was a great game, I never actually finished it. The farthest I got was being head of the thieves guild and then I started to work on the assassin guild.There is no 'finish' end of Morrowind. Its a better persistent world than MMoRPGs, just single player.
The story really is amazing. Non-linear ability to explore one's own path is great, but only because there's so many side-quests and 'create your own' story abilities. There are so many new mods since last time I installed Morrowind, and I'm going to live it all over again, but better.
Its so beautiful.
The Best Game Ever? - DeeBye - 06-22-2004
My vote for the best game ever is Star Ocean 2 for the Playstation. Next to Diablo 1, I've logged more hours playing playing Star Ocean 2 than any other game I own.
The Best Game Ever? - Artega - 06-22-2004
A console game!? For shame!
On a completely unrelated note, I find myself seriously displeased that Shadows of Undrentide and Hordes of the Underdark do not continue the Official Campaign's storyline. I would have liked to see the "romance" I started with Aribeth get to at least BG2-level quality. I guess I could learn how to make a mod and make a mod involving such stuff, and try to get out of a lawsuit from BioWare, though.
This brings me to another minor quibble about NWN: I was disappointed that your race and class didn't have much of an impact on dialogue options available and NPC reactions to you. Class-exclusive dialogue (such as Paladins being able to pursue exclusive dialogue paths with Aribeth and NPC clergy) would have been a great addition.
The Best Game Ever? - DeeBye - 06-22-2004
Artega,Jun 22 2004, 12:31 AM Wrote:A console game!? For shame!You obviously haven't played Star Ocean 2 :)
The Best Game Ever? - Artega - 06-22-2004
Nope. I don't touch those evil consoles, with the exception of Nintendo stuff.
The Best Game Ever? - Rinnhart - 06-22-2004
...This soul is under the sway of the blackest of devils! We must exercise them immediately!
*smacks a bible to Artega's forehead*
Begone foul dæmons! Back to the burning pits whence you arose!
The Best Game Ever? - Artega - 06-22-2004
*hisses evilly and takes cover behind a gargantuan Pikmin idol*
The Best Game Ever? - Swiss Mercenary - 06-22-2004
Now, how can I vote for a non-LGS title..?
Half-Life is up there in my list of greatest games (That I played), as is BG 2. Deus Ex was also great. So far, however, I pass the first place to one of the original Thief series. Now, if only I were to get my hands on System Shock...
The Best Game Ever? - Fragbait - 06-22-2004
Hi,
the toplist of games that I've played rated by the fun I had with them:
1. Diablo - all time favourite and very addictive game. Ahead of the times.
2. Starcraft - THE best real time strategy game ever. Supreme game balance.
3. Quake III Arena - best gameplay of all shooters and nice graphics. A multiplayer jewel.
4. Diablo II + LoD - addictive game and nice sequel of the original. 4 years and still playing...
5. Worms - very entertaining game principle. A multiplayer jewel.
6. Bleifuss Fun - the mother of fun racers. Very entertaining even in singleplayer.
7. Sid Meier's Civilization - the original. Grew up with it, and it was a lot of fun.
8. Virtua Fighter - the best fighting game for the pc at its times.
9. Duke Nukem 3D - the coolest shooter on earth, and the start for my long passion.
10. Daikatana - in spite of the long development of the game the best shooter/sword game campaign ever.
Plus: The Need For Speed series. Enjoyed various parts over the times and liked them all quite much.
=> extra award
Greetings, Fragbait
The Best Game Ever? - Xiuhcoatl - 06-22-2004
The answer to this question depends on the situation so i will give some examples:
The best game that I have played...
...when time permits is pen and paper ADnD.
...when sitting in front of a computer is Starcraft/Broodwar (or pen and paper ADnD played online).
...when money is involved is craps.
...when a deck of cards is handy is pinochle (80 or 120 card deck).
"Best" is defined here as "most enjoyable, satisfying, exciting, and repeatable."
The Best Game Ever? - FunkyfooKarate - 06-22-2004
I have three games of all time ive come to enjoy.
1. Diablo 2:lod
2.halo
3 and when halo 2 comes out ill love it
The Best Game Ever? - Walkiry - 06-22-2004
I find the (general) lack of DOOM disturbing.