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Buying a new computer! - Taeme - 09-25-2004
I'm looking to assemble a new computer in the next month that will be quite solid at playing modern games, as well as having a relatively full feature set. I've done my reading and tried to come up with a solid computer, but I still feel a little shakey on some of the parts, especially the RAM. I'd really love some input on the components, as to be quite frank, I'm certain there are people out there who have more experience with computers than I do.
To note, if you have any thoughts on good retailers besides NewEgg, I'm Canadian, and while I am buying some of the parts from www.newegg.com , I am going to buy the heavier parts (as in, absurdly more to ship to the point of being more expensive) from places in Canada - So if you live in the GTA and know a good store, I'd really appreciate the address. (or website)
Processor
AMD Athlon 64 3200+
While the price on the 3000+ model looks really good on newegg, I imagine spending another $35 on the processor isn't so bad. I've had an AMD chip for years in my current computer, and it's always run fine. Past the point the fan died, in fact, it continued running, without a fan. It has a fan now, but it did go without one for a while.
I know that's anecdotal, but besides that, I'm a gamer and not an encoder, so I feel better about buying what I feel is more of a gaming chip.
link I am wondering however if the retail HSF is difficult to remove. I want to replace it with a Zalman model - Is this hard to do?
Cooling fan replacement
Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu
It looks rather nice, and their website was really professional. Check out their flash videos on installation. Heh, I was shocked. I expected more engrish.
I don't really know much about coolers, though. This one just looks like it will do the job well. I plan on doing some overclocking once I'm sure the chip isn't bad, perhaps more towards the 90 day mark.
Motherboard
Not 100% on this one;
I'd like to get the DFI LanParty UT 250-GB. This I can only seem to pre-order from ncix.com, and comes to $159 CDN before taxes, which is $130 or so US dollars (round figure so as to account for market changes). That sounds pretty good to me, and the board got a great review from Anand. I'm looking for opinions on DFI in general.
I can also, if people think DFI is complete crap, go for the Asus or the MSI whichever you guys think is best. Personally, I'm thinking the DFI is first for my needs, then the Asus, and lastly the MSI.
Video card
Leadtek 6800 GT
Well, here's where I'm still not totally sure. A 6800 GT is about 380 to 420 to purchase, and then there's the different brands. There are also the ATi cards, of course. I personally had my eye on the Leadtek version of the 6800 GT, which has a really nice, big cooling device on it - Which leads to better overclocking or superior product life. It's not currently in stock at newegg, but it is $419, and I do have about a half month - month before I want to pick it up.
However if you gents have any other suggestions I'd be more than willing to listen to reason. I'm fine with buying a x800 XT, or any other brand of 6800 GT. Review sites really don't give me a good scope of information when it comes to brand quality. I do want to play Doom 3, and all, but I want the best card for the money I'm willing to spend. I am not entirely sure which one it is, since reviews seem to have been done over the maturing of the drivers, which has lead to some fragmented results.
Harddrives
I want to pair a WD Raptor 36.7 Gig drive listed here with this Seagate 200gb SATA listed here Simple configuration, just looking to pair a fast drive for OS / games with a slower but larger drive for other crap.
Memory
512x2 - Unsure
This is where I get really, well, confused. I honestly have no idea what to pick for RAM. I understand that the RAM bandwidth is important, and that the CAS timings seem to be a little less than important - I'd like to get something at CAS2.5 for overclocking, and not because I feel I need to scrape out 2% more performance for 200% the money. What brands are good? What goes well with the Athlon 64 boards? So on and so so forth.
At the moment I would just go with 2x512 Corsair Value Select, but I have no idea if that's good RAM or not. It's $150. Seems reasonably priced for a gig of RAM. Suggestions welcome!
Sound card
Creative Audigy 2 LE Gamer whatever
or
Creative Audigy 2 OEM
I am thinking of picking up one of these before the rebate runs out, since I desire to play a couple of those games and it's only a touch more expensive than this with the rebate offer. I know that Creative's cards are nothing special, but the feeling I'm getting is I don't have much choice if I want to play games :(
Halo and Splinter Cell are good on the PC, right? I've only played a little Halo.
(I'm probably going to buy this, this week, so if the gamer's edition lights on fire, please let me know immediately!)
Optical drive
NEC 3500A
This was recommended to me by someone on SH/SC
Phillips 108
This one is recommended (I think?) by Anandtech. Who I'm told are reliable.
I have no preference. I'd also like to pick up a simple, normal DVD drive, and I'm wondering what you gentlemen would profess as a "basic" model for that. Doesn't need to do anything special, just play DVDs and CDs.
Keyboard
Logitech MX700 Duo. Can be had in Canada for a stupidly overpriced amount of about a hundred CDN. I assume this is well regarded as a good keyboard set to pick up?
Monitor
I don't know. I'm thinking I'll have to go and look at monitors somewhere, but does anyone have any suggestions on a large CRT. I mean 19 inchs or more. I was really hoping to get a 21 inch, just to have something TRULY huge on my desk! And not a LCD, since I can just make space one way or the other. And I'm not a little kid, I can lift a big monitor.
I was thinking about getting the Viewsonic 220fb or something close to that. Anyone know anything about monitors? It's hard to just look at specs when it comes to monitors and obviously they can't be benchmarked :)
Case / PSU
Currently I have my heart set on the Thermaltake Xaser III Skull case, which is shown here with PSU, the stats for which are shown [urlhttp://www.thermaltake.com/purepower/w00089.htm]hereabouts[/url]. I've tried looking up the information for the power draw on the individual rails, but I'm not having much luck on that. If anyone can explain to me how I can calculate it out, well, I'd be grateful. I can buy the supply separately, if you guys want to suggest a better supply for my needs. I plan on adding another pair of harddrives over time, so give an idea of peak power draw expected.
That's about everything. I hope to get speakers as well, but I'm not going to trouble people with that sort of nonsense. Thanks for any help you can offer, any opinions would be nice as well :)
Buying a new computer! - Nomad25055 - 09-25-2004
Okay first off, utilizing a diferent HSF isn't totally necessary but as you have mentioned overclocking then it would probably be a good idea. As for switching HSF it really isn't that big of a deal, it's actually rather simple. As far as the HSF that you have chosen I can't really say much as I haven't had much experience with AMD 64's. Now as for your motherboard choice, again I don't have much exp. with the AMD 64's so I can't be much help here. Although I do know a few people who are quite happy with there Abit motherboards, (not quite sure what model/s they have though) I have had VERY good reports from people who are currently using the MSI K8T Neo series boards, as seen here and here.
As far as RAM goes you would do well to either get some Corsair or Kingston RAM, both have a Value Select line I believe and both offer great performance. There are some other good brands out there but those two are the most commonly used AFAIK. I personally would go with Kingston Hyper-X but then again I am biased on the RAM issue :P. Now about your video card, its really a toss up right now between the top cards (X800 series , and the 6800 series). A lot of people seem to be leaning toward the X800XT PE but it seems that just as many if not more are leaning towards the 6800 GT. I myself am an ATI fanboy but I have to say the 6800 GT is probably a wiser choice at this point. The Logitech MX700 is very good so I would say stick with that. Can't help with monitors too much, but I personally prefer Sylvania monitors. I currently own a 19" Pure Flat Sylvania CRT monitor. I believe its the CW902 model but don't quote me on that. It goes up to 1600x1200@75.01hz and has very good quality. It has tinted screen glass for glare reduction and a very good response time. It's the best monitor I've ever owned/used, I would highly recommend a Sylvania montior .Thats about all the help I can give ATM as I am about to pass out at the keyboard so I will be heading to bed now. Please forgive me if anything I have said is confusing or not very straight forward /me points to previous sentence.
NoMaD
Buying a new computer! - pakman - 09-26-2004
I have always been a fan of the ATI video cards. I currently am running the 256MB version of the 9800 Pro, and it works wonderfully. I can run Far Cry, Thief 3, etc, with everything turned on. However, the X800 XT and X800 Pro are out now, but I think they are only marginally better than the 9800 pro in terms of performance.
For RAM, I would suggest sticking with the Corsair. ~$150 is cheap for a gig of PC3200 RAM, and Corsair is a very good brand.
I use a Gigbyte nForce2 motherboard and I am very happy with it. However it does not support the AMD 64 (I'm running a xp 2700+). I have heard good reviews about the nForce3. I'm not too knowledgeable about MSI or Asus, though my frineds that have them are pleased.
Halo has not been optimized for the PC. I still have to turn stuff down to not chunk while playing. Yes it looks pretty, but that's about it. The levels are repetitive and you kill the same bad guys over and over. Hell, what am I saying? It's fun to brutally murder little blue aliens with a pump shotty to the face.
Buying a new computer! - kandrathe - 09-26-2004
Quote:I am wondering however if the retail HSF is difficult to remove. I want to replace it with a Zalman model - Is this hard to do?
The processor and fan won't come assembled.
Buying a new computer! - Taeme - 09-26-2004
kandrathe,Sep 26 2004, 05:09 PM Wrote:The processor and fan won't come assembled.So I've heard. I wonder what I can do with the other fan? Maybe jury rig it onto the north bridge :)
[right][snapback]56461[/snapback][/right]
Buying a new computer! - Nomad25055 - 09-26-2004
Quote:However, the X800 XT and X800 Pro are out now, but I think they are only marginally better than the 9800 pro in terms of performance.
AFAIK there isn't any hardware out there that will allow these cards to work to their full potential. And it certainly seems that in most cases the X800 series cards blow away all other cards except for the new Nvidia cards.
NoMaD
EDIT: I too own an ATI 9800PRO 256MB and recently find myself wishing I had saved up a little more money and gotten an X800XT instead.
Buying a new computer! - Munkay - 09-26-2004
Dear God! Did you try to make the worst rig possible?
I hope not, but if you did, you definately succeeded.
Nodding his head in disbelief,
Munk
:lol:
Buying a new computer! - bernard shakey - 09-26-2004
[quote=Munkay,Sep 26 2004, 05:19 PM]
Dear God! Did you try to make the worst rig possible?
care to elaborate? I'm looking to upgrade my PC with the processor and video card he was talking about. Their widely excepted as the best out there and everyone here seemed to agree. are some of these components incompatible or do you know of better ones? or are you a mac user!
Buying a new computer! - Taeme - 09-26-2004
bernard shakey,Sep 26 2004, 09:54 PM Wrote:[quote=Munkay,Sep 26 2004, 05:19 PM]He is simply making a joke. Don't worry about it, Munk and I are friends out of the lounge.
Dear God! Did you try to make the worst rig possible?
care to elaborate? I'm looking to upgrade my PC with the processor and video card he was talking about. Their widely excepted as the best out there and everyone here seemed to agree. are some of these components incompatible or do you know of better ones? or are you a mac user!
[right][snapback]56487[/snapback][/right]
Buying a new computer! - Munkay - 09-26-2004
Aye, I didn't mean to confuse people. I think that rig is actually rather sound. As spider mentioned we talk outside of the lounge, and he's been sending me revisions of his rig over the last few months. At this point I think it is one of the best set ups for cost/performance/spider's use.
I'll try to keep the personal out of posts, or at least mark them clearly.
Cheers,
Munk
Buying a new computer! - Hocus - 09-27-2004
Taeme,Sep 25 2004, 05:32 AM Wrote:Processor
AMD Athlon 64 3200+
Fine.
Quote:Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu
Go for the full copper version like I did. It's only marginally more expensive and works quite a lot better, since copper is a better conductor of heat and all.
Quote:I'd like to get the DFI LanParty UT 250-GB. This I can only seem to pre-order from ncix.com, and comes to $159 CDN before taxes, which is $130 or so US dollars (round figure so as to account for market changes). That sounds pretty good to me, and the board got a great review from Anand. I'm looking for opinions on DFI in general.
Can't comment. Never even heard of DFI. But if it got a good review on Anandtech then it should be okay.
Quote:
Video card
Leadtek 6800 GT
Waste of money if you ask me. I had the money to go for a Radeon 9800 Pro or a 6800 GT and I went for the Radeon instead. Why? You're paying a lot more for only a slight performance increase. But, if you have your heart set on a high end card, definitely go for a 6800 GT or Ultra over an x800. I've explained why x800's are a bad choice in another thread you were involved in.
Quote:
Harddrives
I want to pair a WD Raptor 36.7 Gig drive listed here with this Seagate 200gb SATA listed here
Let me guess, you're going to run the Raptors in raid0, a trap many people fall into. Go read Anandtech on the subject. It's pointless. There is only a minuscle performance gain in real terms to be had (we're talking 2-3% here) and it certainly does not justify the cost. Just go for a 74GB Raptor for your OS/games drive and the 200GB IDE for storage. No need to have SATA on a storage disk.
Quote:
Memory
512x2 - Unsure
This is where I get really, well, confused. I honestly have no idea what to pick for RAM. I understand that the RAM bandwidth is important, and that the CAS timings seem to be a little less than important - I'd like to get something at CAS2.5 for overclocking, and not because I feel I need to scrape out 2% more performance for 200% the money. What brands are good? What goes well with the Athlon 64 boards? So on and so so forth.
Due to the way Athlon 64 chips have been designed (the memory controller is on the chip rather than the motherboard) CAS timings aren't as important; you can get away with far slacker timings than you would on a Pentium. I think there's really only two brands to look at: Corsair and GeiL. As for timings, 2.5 7-4-4 should be good enough, 2.5 6-4-4 would be better.
Quote:
Sound card
Creative Audigy 2 LE Gamer whatever
or
Creative Audigy 2 OEM
I'm tempted to say waste of money. Onboard sound has made many leaps and bounds. I'm currently using the onboard sound on my Epox 8KDA3+ and it works great. Unless you're an audiophile you're unlikely to notice the difference. But it's hard for me to comment, since I don't have an Audigy 2 LS whatever yet.
Quote:
Optical drive
NEC 3500A
This was recommended to me by someone on SH/SC
I'd prefer to go for the Liteon Combo Drive 52x32x52x CD-RW & DVD-ROM. Liteon have a much better name, and in my experience have been extremely reliable drives. Also they tend to be better at "properly" reading discs which is handy when creating backups of your discs.
Quote:
Phillips 108
This one is recommended (I think?) by Anandtech. Who I'm told are reliable.
That's the drive I just got. It works a treat. Definitely go for it.
Quote:
Keyboard
Logitech MX700 Duo. Can be had in Canada for a stupidly overpriced amount of about a hundred CDN. I assume this is well regarded as a good keyboard set to pick up?
Can't really go wrong with Logitech. I went for a Logitech Elite Keyboard (I'm not a big fan of wireless) and a Logitech MX500 Mouse. But it's personal preference I guess.
Quote:
Monitor
I don't know. I'm thinking I'll have to go and look at monitors somewhere, but does anyone have any suggestions on a large CRT. I mean 19 inchs or more. I was really hoping to get a 21 inch, just to have something TRULY huge on my desk! And not a LCD, since I can just make space one way or the other. And I'm not a little kid, I can lift a big monitor.
CRT's are better for games anyway, due to colour depth/response times.
Quote:
Case / PSU
Currently I have my heart set on the Thermaltake Xaser III Skull case, which is shown here with PSU, the stats for which are shown [urlhttp://www.thermaltake.com/purepower/w00089.htm]hereabouts[/url].
That case looks a bit small to me, it's only a midi tower. I'd go for a full tower if you plan to do any serious overclocking. If you want a full tower, go for an Antec 1080AMG like I did, it's simply superb. Room for 5 case fans, 10 drive bays, air filters, tough as nails, can't recommend it more. As for PSU, the ones in both the Thermaltake and Antec don't put out enough watts for overclocking, especially with all the extra drives you plan to put in. The 6800 GT is also a factor as well, drawing so much power it has 2 molex cables. I recommend just going for an Antec 500+ watt PSU, the more the better.
Buying a new computer! - Taeme - 09-27-2004
The 6800GT only uses one molex connector.
I've decided to go with a 470w Enermax supply. It's another $40 gone but it will be worth it.
You misread the part about HDDs.
Buying a new computer! - kandrathe - 09-27-2004
Taeme,Sep 26 2004, 01:42 PM Wrote:So I've heard. I wonder what I can do with the other fan? Maybe jury rig it onto the north bridge :)
[right][snapback]56466[/snapback][/right]
Probably not worth the trouble to wire it. Use some heat sinks if it doesn't have them. I'd just stow it for use as a backup.