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+--- Thread: How long do you want to live? (/thread-7426.html)
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How long do you want to live? - Nomad25055 - 12-09-2004
Interesting article. Just imagine where you would be in 1,000 years.
How long do you want to live? - Assur - 12-09-2004
Considering the beauty of compound interest, why not? :D
How long do you want to live? - Yrrek - 12-09-2004
Good idea, my only worry is population. Our planet is crowded as it is. For an excellent read of population and terraforming, pick up the Red Mars series by Kim Stanley Robinson from your locel library or bookstore today!
How long do you want to live? - DeeBye - 12-09-2004
Yrrek,Dec 9 2004, 12:20 AM Wrote:For an excellent read of population and terraforming, pick up the Red Mars series by Kim Stanley Robinson from your locel library or bookstore today!
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This is a great series. I need to reread it again soon.
How long do you want to live? - Mithrandir - 12-09-2004
I find it incredibly hard to believe - there's just too many variables involved in the process. Everything from UV light to basic transcription/translation errors to your DNA naturally shortening with time causes the events which eventually lead to your death. The amount of repair and upkeep that just a single human being would need to guarantee a life free of natural death would just be staggering. The latest journals I've read on Alzheimer's suggest that everyone actually technically has the disease, just that your genetics determine the onset time (which, for most people is beyond their life span). We have no cure for Alzheimer's... how would that be addressed?
Then you also get into strange theories involving entropy and the body as an ordered system and such.
How long do you want to live? - Swiss Mercenary - 12-09-2004
Nomad25055,Dec 9 2004, 12:53 AM Wrote:Interesting article. Just imagine where you would be in 1,000 years.
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I think I'll be happy with getting over the half-way point, myself. Then again, that would be in a rather long while... Ask me in 50 years. B)
How long do you want to live? - Walkiry - 12-09-2004
My plan is to live forever. So far, so good :lol:
How long do you want to live? - Jeunemaitre - 12-09-2004
Mithrandir,Dec 9 2004, 12:11 AM Wrote:We have no cure for Alzheimer's... how would that be addressed?
That depends on whether your in favor of allowing stem cell research. Also of note, several drug manufacturers are engaging in research in "Mild Cognitive Impairment" which some people feel is a "pre-Alzheimer's" state. One of the difficulties in such research is identifying non-demented participants who show signs of MCI. Once you get to the point of dementia, it's difficult to isolate deteriorating cognitive function from the effects of dementia through objective, or even subjective rating scales.
The thing to remember is that not that long ago, a diagnosis of any form of cancer was essentially a "You have x months to live" situation. Now, there are many forms of cancer that are coming under control, and others that are showing positive signs of a "cure" coming soon. Though we are fragile beings, we've amassed enough knowledge to be sufficiently capable of solving most biologic, or biochemical problems, given sufficient time and attention.
Of greater consequence (to me anyway) is the ability to adapt to a changing environment. We've always been inclined to adapt to changes in environment through the use of increasingly complex technology. I'm not convinced that we are flexible enough to adapt to changes that would take place in our environment over the course of en extended life-span.
How long do you want to live? - Armin - 12-09-2004
Stem cells = overhyped, overestimated and overrated.
And thats coming from someone who worked in mesenchymal stem cell isolation, adult stem cell culture and redifferentiation and applied stem cell science, namely tissue engineering :wacko:
If there was one lesson to be learned from the human genome project's major surprise then it's: many things are WAY more complicated than people think. So there's only 30.000 actual ORFs in the human genome? (One open reading frame very roughly translates to one gene) Not the previously estimated 100.000? What does it say about the 99% of our DNA that contain no ORFs? Really just evolutionary junk? Evolution does not work like that.
Mankind is *generations* away from understanding every detail of how those 30.000 genes are regulated by themselves and those other 99% of our genome. Knowing the genes is like having the part list for your new car. A list of the parts will not allow you to assemble it... ;)
Once we have some database (and a computer thats able to run it) that models how each of the 30.000 is expressed, when, where and in what amount, and how each of the 30.000 resulting proteins (actually, more as some genes code for more than 1...) modulates the *other* 29.999 we can begin to think about changing the general nature of the Universe :rolleyes:
Mortality is an integral and unchangeble part of being multicellular. Immortality and being a multicellular organism don't mix. Period. Hundreds of millions of years of evolution have BUILT us to be mortal, there would have been no evolution without us being mortal. We won't simply negate millions of years of evolution by some sloppily applied patches. God - if one believes in one - is most definitely no Blizzard programmer. B)
And one thing that I've come to take for granted: don't trust *any* scientist who promises some kind of specific applicable result "within 10 or 20 years". :D
Armin
Ph. D in molecular cell biology
former cancer researcher
former tissue engineer
producer of cytokines
How long do you want to live? - Any1 - 12-09-2004
Thanks for the informative post.
I completely agree that death is a necessary part of being a "living" organism, just as much as consumtion and reproduction.
One question, you don't think stem cells (or some derivative) can be used to slow down (by at least 50%) degenerative diseases, Within the next 10 years or so?
Armin,Dec 9 2004, 06:16 PM Wrote:Stem cells = overhyped, overestimated and overrated.
And thats coming from someone who worked in mesenchymal stem cell isolation, adult stem cell culture and redifferentiation and applied stem cell science, namely tissue engineering :wacko:
If there was one lesson to be learned from the human genome project's major surprise then it's: many things are WAY more complicated than people think. So there's only 30.000 actual ORFs in the human genome? (One open reading frame very roughly translates to one gene) Not the previously estimated 100.000? What does it say about the 99% of our DNA that contain no ORFs? Really just evolutionary junk? Evolution does not work like that.
Mankind is *generations* away from understanding every detail of how those 30.000 genes are regulated by themselves and those other 99% of our genome. Knowing the genes is like having the part list for your new car. A list of the parts will not allow you to assemble it... ;)
Once we have some database (and a computer thats able to run it) that models how each of the 30.000 is expressed, when, where and in what amount, and how each of the 30.000 resulting proteins (actually, more as some genes code for more than 1...) modulates the *other* 29.999 we can begin to think about changing the general nature of the Universe :rolleyes:
Mortality is an integral and unchangeble part of being multicellular. Immortality and being a multicellular organism don't mix. Period. Hundreds of millions of years of evolution have BUILT us to be mortal, there would have been no evolution without us being mortal. We won't simply negate millions of years of evolution by some sloppily applied patches. God - if one believes in one - is most definitely no Blizzard programmer. B)
And one thing that I've come to take for granted: don't trust *any* scientist who promises some kind of specific applicable result "within 10 or 20 years". :D
Armin
Ph. D in molecular cell biology
former cancer researcher
former tissue engineer
producer of cytokines
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How long do you want to live? - Doc - 12-09-2004
I just want to live long enough to piss on the graves of my enemies. That's all I ask for. I must outlive them... And when they die, I will piss on their grave.
It's really very simple.
No, I am no longer taking applications for the creation of a lifelong enemy. Some of you punks are too damn young and I aint waiting that long. I would hate to have to cheat and have somebody bumped off just so I can keep my word.
Seriously... I have some tasks that need to be finished. There is no option but to live long enough to make sure they are done and properly. There is a certain special somebody that I must see grow up right, get through college, and make something of themselves. I am guessing... Maybe thirty to 40 years total, tops, to wait before I croak.
How long do you want to live? - Guest - 12-09-2004
Nomad25055,Dec 9 2004, 12:53 AM Wrote:Interesting article. Just imagine where you would be in 1,000 years.I don't think it would be a good idea to allow people to live that long.Imagine Ben Laden alive for 1000 years more.
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Sure,it may be possible;the real question is why? why allow Man to live that long ?;life wouldn't be that precious for us,or maybe life would lose its meaning;indeed,why hurry in life or do certain things while knowing you could live 1000 years? I fear that Man could lose what's make us human,that is,a limited life,the fact that we are all unique (considering cloning) and other wild stuff.
How long do you want to live? - Guest - 12-09-2004
Yrrek,Dec 9 2004, 04:20 AM Wrote:Good idea, my only worry is population. Our planet is crowded as it is. For an excellent read of population and terraforming, pick up the Red Mars series by Kim Stanley Robinson from your locel library or bookstore today!World population may increase or may decrease;it won't always increase like it did during the last century;if the average number of children is n<2 per family ,then world population will decrease;if n>2 ,it will increase.
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Think of diseases,wars,starvations,etc..they will help to slow down the increase of the population this millenium.
How long do you want to live? - Guest - 12-09-2004
Doc,Dec 9 2004, 07:43 PM Wrote:I just want to live long enough to piss on the graves of my enemies. That's all I ask for. I must outlive them... And when they die, I will piss on their grave.You'll always have enemies,you me,all of us;get used to it;you'll have enemies which aren't even born.
It's really very simple.
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Take it easy,enjoy life;don't worry about your enemies for they will receive what they deserve after death.
~Abramelin~
How long do you want to live? - [wcip]Angel - 12-09-2004
Nomad25055,Dec 9 2004, 12:53 AM Wrote:Interesting article. Just imagine where you would be in 1,000 years.I want to live so long that I'll have more years of happiness than of sadness. Yes, I *do* want to live forever, ironically.
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(Sorry for the spout of negativity, it's exam-time here. :angry:)
How long do you want to live? - Doc - 12-09-2004
Abramelin,Dec 9 2004, 03:12 PM Wrote:You'll always have enemies,you me,all of us;get used to it;you'll have enemies which aren't even born.
Take it easy,enjoy life;don't worry about your enemies for they will receive what they deserve after death.
~Abramelin~
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Look here youngster... Didn't anybody tell you not to try and talk sense to an old man set firmly in his ways? It's like talking to a wall. You would probably get farther arguing with a stump... So go do that. Shoo... Go on, GIT!
How long do you want to live? - Dozer - 12-09-2004
Abramelin,Dec 9 2004, 04:01 PM Wrote:Think of diseases,wars,starvations,etc..they will help to slow down the increase of the population this millenium.
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Always the optimist, aren't we? :P
I, for one, have a little more faith in humanity than that. I would like to live a Long time, though. :whistling:
How long do you want to live? - Minionman - 12-09-2004
Abramelin,Dec 9 2004, 01:51 PM Wrote:I don't think it would be a good idea to allow people to live that long.Imagine Ben Laden alive for 1000 years more.
Sure,it may be possible;the real question is why? why allow Man to live that long ?;life wouldn't be that precious for us,or maybe life would lose its meaning;indeed,why hurry in life or do certain things while knowing you could live 1000 years? I fear that Man could lose what's make us human,that is,a limited life,the fact that we are all unique (considering cloning) and other wild stuff.
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I have to be cynical about thesetypes of " meaning" type ideas, it's a deep down part in my brain, so reading this post, I'd go ahead and live the 1000 years. I'm pretty sure people would learn to live with the changes.
How long do you want to live? - Minionman - 12-09-2004
Armin,Dec 9 2004, 12:16 PM Wrote:Stem cells = overhyped, overestimated and overrated.
And thats coming from someone who worked in mesenchymal stem cell isolation, adult stem cell culture and redifferentiation and applied stem cell science, namely tissue engineering :wacko:
If there was one lesson to be learned from the human genome project's major surprise then it's: many things are WAY more complicated than people think. So there's only 30.000 actual ORFs in the human genome? (One open reading frame very roughly translates to one gene) Not the previously estimated 100.000? What does it say about the 99% of our DNA that contain no ORFs? Really just evolutionary junk? Evolution does not work like that.
Mankind is *generations* away from understanding every detail of how those 30.000 genes are regulated by themselves and those other 99% of our genome. Knowing the genes is like having the part list for your new car. A list of the parts will not allow you to assemble it... ;)
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Stem cells do make a nice way to argue against some more extreme religious-based laws, though. <_<
I did read about what some people think that "junk" DNA does though. Very cool stuff, cells and genetics in general.
Actually, I'd expect someone who does this kind of work to say it's overrated. It's a general pattern, it seems, that someone with experience in an area expects less of it than someone with less experience. I read once that there was actually a word in law called "CSI effect", where people would expect more from physical evidence than it could actually deliver.
How long do you want to live? - Guest - 12-10-2004
Minionman,Dec 9 2004, 10:35 PM Wrote:I have to be cynical about thesetypes of " meaning" type ideas, it's a deep down part in my brain, so reading this post, I'd go ahead and live the 1000 years. I'm pretty sure people would learn to live with the changes.There is a philosophical issue even though you don't want to recognize it.The meaning of one's life is more important than a lifetime.Things of life would have a different meaning if one were able to live 1000 years instead of 100 years;one should think twice about it before taking advantage of it.
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