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+--- Thread: Advice RE: Mages (/thread-7422.html)
Advice RE: Mages - Sabra - 12-09-2004
I saw the PvP & PvE Mage thread, but ... no help there, so here I come with what I'm sure will be the first of many questions about WoW.
Thus far my primary character is a female Human Mage. She is now level 10 and has received a talent point to distribute, her first of many I hope. In order to keep her effective, will it be smarter for me to focus primarily on building one branch of her abilities, as it was with a D2 sorc, or should I plan to spread these points through fire, frost and arcane talents in order to balance her?
Realizing that many situations will require co-operative play, I am by nature a solo player and will remain so for as much of the time as possible. (I don't know if that little chunk of info. will effect your advice to me.)
If this is not a good section in which to post these types of questions, please advise me.
Advice RE: Mages - stabby - 12-09-2004
Sabra,Dec 9 2004, 12:10 PM Wrote:I saw the PvP & PvE Mage thread, but ... no help there, so here I come with what I'm sure will be the first of many questions about WoW.I don't have any experience playing mages in this game, but I do have a lot tanking for them, and with soloing, which has a lot of principles that apply across all classes.
Thus far my primary character is a female Human Mage. She is now level 10 and has received a talent point to distribute, her first of many I hope. In order to keep her effective, will it be smarter for me to focus primarily on building one branch of her abilities, as it was with a D2 sorc, or should I plan to spread these points through fire, frost and arcane talents in order to balance her?
Realizing that many situations will require co-operative play, I am by nature a solo player and will remain so for as much of the time as possible. (I don't know if that little chunk of info. will effect your advice to me.)
If this is not a good section in which to post these types of questions, please advise me.
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A lot of things about mages in solo vs. group play tend to be at odds with each other. In groups, you need to mind your aggro and make sure that you apply your crowd control ability (polymorph) approrpriately. While solo, you benefit from not having anyone else around to accidentally break your polymorphs, but your goal changes from "work with your team to minimize downtime and maximize killing speed" to "put whatever you're targetting on the floor as ground and mana-efficiently as you can."
With this latter idea in mind, I have to recommend not placing points in talents that reduce the aggro you gain from casting spells, and instead focus on things that improve your damage output, and allow you to more effectively manage your mana supply. Looking at your talent trees, I'd say that you should go at least 11 points deep in the Arcane tree for Evocation (8 seconds of 1500% mana regen, every 10 minutes, while you channel -- basically a free mana bar every 10 minutes), probably by picking up 5 points in Improved Arcane Missiles (20% chance of preventing interruption of its channel per point, for 100% when fully specced -- a great buy, since Arcane Missiles does excellent damage for not much mana) and 5 points in Arcane Concentration (2% chance per point of making the next damage spell you cast free after each damage spell hits a target -- a definite good choice, especially compared to Wand Specialization).
One other early talent that catches my eye is Impact in the fire tree, which adds a 2% chance of stun per point to all your fire spells. Stun is a great thing to have when soloing, as it interrupts enemy spells, causes enemy melee attackers to stop hitting you for a couple seconds, and stops runners from making it far enough to call their friends for help.
I hope that my advice at least provides you with some jumping off points for your talent spec.
Advice RE: Mages - Skandranon - 12-09-2004
Sabra,Dec 9 2004, 12:10 PM Wrote:I saw the PvP & PvE Mage thread, but ... no help there, so here I come with what I'm sure will be the first of many questions about WoW.
Thus far my primary character is a female Human Mage. She is now level 10 and has received a talent point to distribute, her first of many I hope. In order to keep her effective, will it be smarter for me to focus primarily on building one branch of her abilities, as it was with a D2 sorc, or should I plan to spread these points through fire, frost and arcane talents in order to balance her?
Realizing that many situations will require co-operative play, I am by nature a solo player and will remain so for as much of the time as possible. (I don't know if that little chunk of info. will effect your advice to me.)
If this is not a good section in which to post these types of questions, please advise me.
Sabra, given that you'll be soloing a lot, put your first five points into Improved Arcane Missiles in the Arcane tree. I could go into more detail now, but hopefully by the time you assign that fifth point my mage guide will be up on this forum, which will contain that same recommendation and the reasons behind it.
Advice RE: Mages - Roane - 12-09-2004
Skandranon,Dec 9 2004, 09:07 AM Wrote:Sabra, given that you'll be soloing a lot, put your first five points into Improved Arcane Missiles in the Arcane tree. I could go into more detail now, but hopefully by the time you assign that fifth point my mage guide will be up on this forum, which will contain that same recommendation and the reasons behind it.
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I'll second that advice. (Skandranon just beat me to it!)
Advice RE: Mages - Malakar - 12-09-2004
I agree with Improved Arcane Missiles too. I have a level 33 mage specialized in Arcane. Arcane seemed like the best choice for a balance between solo ability and group play. Improved Arcane Missiles allows me to cast uninterupted in solo play, while Arcane Subtlety allows me to chain cast Arcane Missiles in group play without pulling aggro for a mear 3 talent points.
Advice RE: Mages - LochnarITB - 12-09-2004
I assume you saw this link in the other thread but I'll link to mage builds just in case you didn't. I read that through and found there was little I could argue with. Of course, I don't have the high level experience that others do. It may be that I am following advice I will not be happy with but, if so, I will unlearn talents and rebuild.
Of the builds listed, I decided to go with 33 frost/18 arcane. I had thought to modify at least a couple points. However, as I played further, I realized I would not use the modification I had intended and, since I had not yet committed points to it, I switched back to the original.
My current battles generally go as follows. Move in to max range for a fireball. Launch that. As soon as it fires, start the casting of a frostbolt. If the baddie* is slow enough, I can often get off two frostbolts before they get to me (improved frostbolt has brought the casting time down). As they get to me I cast a frost nova (instant) which usually pins them down. I then back off a couple steps (little squishy guy steps, not big hoomaun steps) and hit them with arcane missiles. In most cases they are now done. If not, I am able to take a couple blows as I finish them off. If I get them down to a small sliver, the finishing blow is often the instant cast fire (fireblast?).
If my initial pull brings more than one, I concentrate on the initial pull. The frost nova is held until the group is all to me. If there are just two, I finish the first and start on the second with arcane missile until frost nova has cooled down. I then pin and back off and finish. If more than two pull, I attempt to finish the first and then head back out the way I came until they drop off.
As I build the frost talent, frostbolt will replace the initial fireball when its range has been increased to that of the fireball. This will slow them enough to possibly allow another strike at distance.
Also, as a note about solo play, I think you will find that you will be pushed to group. I also think you will find it to be enjoyable, especially in good groups such as those made up of the Lurkers that I have played with. I have always been a soloist as well and was pleasantly surprised at how much fun I had in groups. When you do start to do groups, you will find that one of your biggest benefits to the group is the ability to sheep (polymorph) a baddie. As two or more head for the party, I tab through the bad guys looking for one that isn't being hit (a hit will instantly "pop" the sheep) and then sheep them. I have a macro that announces to the party that I am doing so and hope that they notice so the spell isn't wasted. It is also a good idea to hold off for the initial 10% or so of the baddies damage bar before casting damage on them. This helps to keep their focus from shifting off the tank to your squishy guy.
Also, don't be afraid to abandon a character, or unlearn and reassign the talent points, if you don't like how they are going. If you end up as addicted to this as I am, you will find that you will end spending a lot more time using the character at higher levels than the initial build time. There is no sense on continuing to build something that is already beyond hope. That is one case where you can take advantage of hindsight being 20/20. :)
*I use baddie in referring to individual monsters. I often see people using mob as the singular for a bad guy. This confuses me. How did mob come to represent this and not a group of bad guys as would be the normal usage when saying something such as "The store was mobbed at 12:01 am when they opened the doors to sell WoW" or "mob mentality"?
Advice RE: Mages - Treesh - 12-09-2004
LochnarITB,Dec 9 2004, 05:23 PM Wrote:*I use baddie in referring to individual monsters. I often see people using mob as the singular for a bad guy. This confuses me. How did mob come to represent this and not a group of bad guys as would be the normal usage when saying something such as "The store was mobbed at 12:01 am when they opened the doors to sell WoW" or "mob mentality"?
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MOB was supposedly a shortening of Mobile Object from early days of gaming/programming. Or at least that's the explanation I've heard most often.
Advice RE: Mages - Tal - 12-10-2004
LochnarITB,Dec 9 2004, 07:23 PM Wrote:Also, as a note about solo play, I think you will find that you will be pushed to group. I also think you will find it to be enjoyable, especially in good groups such as those made up of the Lurkers that I have played with. I have always been a soloist as well and was pleasantly surprised at how much fun I had in groups. When you do start to do groups, you will find that one of your biggest benefits to the group is the ability to sheep (polymorph) a baddie. As two or more head for the party, I tab through the bad guys looking for one that isn't being hit (a hit will instantly "pop" the sheep) and then sheep them. I have a macro that announces to the party that I am doing so and hope that they notice so the spell isn't wasted. It is also a good idea to hold off for the initial 10% or so of the baddies damage bar before casting damage on them. This helps to keep their focus from shifting off the tank to your squishy guy.
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Just a small addendum to this from the viewpoint of the tank. If the mobs are in motion I will tag them to get their attention so they don't run rampant through the squishy center of the party. Frequently if there is another tank class in the party they will grab that add with the same purpose in mind. At that point its better in my opinion to wait until the tank switches back to the main target to sheep the add. But, if the tank doesn't seem to be in any danger of collapse - which he/she shouldn't witha good healer, it may be better to let the mob pound on him for awhile in the interests of getting the first mob killed quickly.
To me the best time to sheep is before a fight begins and when an add is coming on the scene unexpectedly while the tank has more than one target.
These are just my thoughts on the subject from a tanks point of view. :)
Advice RE: Mages - Sabra - 12-10-2004
Thank you all so much for the input.
It's good to know that I'm reading the waters better than I'd thought. Seemed to me that I was getting more good from the Arcane Missles than anything else, and it seems I was correct, so that very first point goes to Improving them.
I'm attracted to the arcane skills, simply because they are different from anything I've ever used. My only d2 sorc was a cold sorc, so I know it's power, which definitely has it's appeal as well.
Does anyone else feel that the low level fire spells are not as powerful as one would expect in this game?
Lochnar, thanks for the link to that article. I will read it this weekend, when I'll have time to read. Yes, I saw it, but during the week ... just too much and I'd rather be playing. To you and Stabby, thanks for trying to get me up the ladder.
Skandranon, hurry up with that guide, will ya? I'm dying here! ;)
Best thing about this post ... I finally know who here is Sharanna. Tal, many thanks. I owe you, as you know. You've been unfailingly kind to my lonely little elf as she waits for the reutrn of Thenryb.
Much appreciated. I'll be back for more.
Advice RE: Mages - Tal - 12-10-2004
Sabra,Dec 9 2004, 08:51 PM Wrote:Best thing about this post ... I finally know who here is Sharanna. Tal, many thanks. I owe you, as you know. You've been unfailingly kind to my lonely little elf as she waits for the reutrn of Thenryb.
Much appreciated. I'll be back for more.
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Jes' doin' me job m'lady. :)
Advice RE: Mages - LochnarITB - 12-10-2004
Tal,Dec 9 2004, 06:25 PM Wrote:Just a small addendum to this from the viewpoint of the tank.Your advice is well taken. I have some additional observations as to how I have been handling the job of shepherd. I tend to watch from outside the battle so it is easier to see how the baddies are actually reacting.
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Quote:If the mobs are in motion I will tag them to get their attention so they don't run rampant through the squishy center of the party. Frequently if there is another tank class in the party they will grab that add with the same purpose in mind. At that point its better in my opinion to wait until the tank switches back to the main target to sheep the add. But, if the tank doesn't seem to be in any danger of collapse - which he/she shouldn't witha good healer, it may be better to let the mob pound on him for awhile in the interests of getting the first mob killed quickly.Generally an add is very close behind the initial pull. A slight delay before sheeping allows me to watch for this to happen. If there is no immediate add and the pull is just two baddies, it appears that the best way to go is for the tanks to tag both and then switch back to the main target. This allows the second to be sheeped. With the exception of a drawn out fight with a boss, the sheep outlasts almost all single kills. The advantage that I see in focusing on one baddie is that they seem to be kept in more of a state of confusion. In a good fight with two tanks in the fray, the aggro seems to switch back and forth between the tanks. The bad guys also seem to experience the same setback from blows that the characters do. Less blows are landed by the baddie if it is switching focus between two tanks and being stuttered by hits. The main is killed off quickly with plenty of time to position and pop the sheep to do the same to it. Also, if fewer blows from the baddies actually land, this would mean lower repair costs as well as less chance for things such as stun, poison, etc. If there are three or more, one will almost always be free to be sheeped without worry of having it popped. Any late adds are sheeped as soon as the previous sheep is popped or wears off.
Quote:To me the best time to sheep is before a fight begins and when an add is coming on the scene unexpectedly while the tank has more than one target.To act as the pull strikes me as always being the best use of poly when facing a pull of two or more baddies. In the event that the remaining baddie(s) beeline for my little squishy guy, I have pretty much gotten over the urge to bolt and, instead, have taught myself to head for the comfort of the big guys. If you see me running between your legs, there will generally be a bad guy on my tail.
Quote:These are just my thoughts on the subject from a tanks point of view. :)And these were my thoughts given what I am able to observe from the outside of the fray. The best teams are those in which each member can anticipate what the other members will do in a given situation. I am VERY addicted to this stupid game and, like anything that I bring into my life, I am not happy unless I believe I am doing it to the best of my capabilities. I want to understand the mechanics of the character I play as well as how they affect the characters I play alongside.
Advice RE: Mages - Tal - 12-10-2004
It would appear that we are in accord Master Lochnar. Pray let us take the battle to our enemies!
Advice RE: Mages - LochnarITB - 12-10-2004
Tallyho!
note: I just noticed something in your character info. Sharanna is on Stormrage not Stormgard. Just think how many people you've sent on a wild goose chase looking for the famous (infamous?) Sharanna. :P
Advice RE: Mages - Tal - 12-11-2004
LochnarITB,Dec 10 2004, 05:10 PM Wrote:Tallyho!
note: I just noticed something in your character info. Sharanna is on Stormrage not Stormgard. Just think how many people you've sent on a wild goose chase looking for the famous (infamous?) Sharanna. :P
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Heh good catch. :D