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Basic Party Strategy - Savingsupertokyo - 02-28-2005

One of my biggest disappointments with WoW so far is the lack of people that are good in parties. I've played on several of my friend's accounts until I got my own two weeks ago, so I've not progressed beyond level 20.

I'm hoping that things get better as the levels tick by due to the fact that partying is necessary for those harder upper level quests and that people that are bad in parties just dont get as far.

Unfortunately I have realized that I know very little about good party strats. Warrior tanks and draws aggro. Priest heals him. Mages nuke from far away but not so much that they draw aggro. Beyond that I really have no idea how other classes work into good party strategy besides having other classes protect the casters and healers.

Currently I'm playing an Undead Mage, Tauren Shaman and Orc Rogue in an attempt to have all the gathering professions and many of the useful production professions on one account so I can be self-sufficient in all the trade skills. Of these three I've only just began the shaman and rogue so my knowledge of good party play is limited to the Mage. It is my intent to find out how to play all classes well in groups.

A general summary of what other classes are expected to do in a party situation would be great. What do you do when there isn't a main healer? What if there is an unconventional tank? What if there is a lack of casters?

I know that there are guides out there for all classes and the different builds within those classes, but a general guide of all of them combined is my goal. Not only knowing how you should play your character but knowing what could help that newbie mage or newbie hunter in your group could be the difference between a smooth instance and a string of wipes.



Discuss :)

Basic Party Strategy - acidjax - 02-28-2005

I'll start with some things I've observed and someone else can jump in to add/correct.


**Warrior** Usually if there's only one warrior, he'll be the designated tank. In the lower level instances, having maximum damage mitigation isn't as important (for a war) as being able to hold agro on multiple mobs at the same time. A warrior as a tank should keep an eye on all mobs in a pull. This way the warrior can go after mobs that make a mad dash for the casters. To keep agro on multiple mobs, the warrior will need to use various AoE skills in conjunction with large agro single target skills on the mob everyone is attacking (tactical mastery helps). Hamstring on runners helps when the group lacks other classes with good snares.


**Rogue** The lower level the instance, the more a rogue can be a tank (for one mob at a time). When the group already has a tank, the rogue helps with agro management by using feint to not get unneeded agro. Vanish/evasion can also be used in emergencies. A good rogue can be tough to kill and the healer can focus on other classes first. Sap will be useful as a form of CC. The rogue is a good class to be a main assist or a peeler.


**Mage** The mage is useful for dealing damage and having an excellent source of CC. A good mage will have a feel for how long his polymorphs last and be able to reapply polymorph before the mob has recovered. Mages can also get a feel to how much hate their spells generate so that the don't burst too much. Frost nova will sometimes help as a short-duration CC. Additionally mages can try to manage their mana (when beneficial) to be in line with the primary healer's mana such that as little downtime is needed. Some instances will require cure curse. In most high level instances, instant arcane explosion and improved counterspell will be VERY handy. Mages are a primary damage dealer and should use an assist macro.


**Priest** Priests will usually be designated as primary healers and sometimes that means not casting any damage spells in the pursuit of group efficiency. When possible, it's a good idea not to use HW: shield in combat as it appears to draw more hate then heals. Greater heals can be used on tanks with good armor while flash heals will be necessary on softer classes. People tend to get nervous when their health drops below 50% and depending on the instance it might be good to keep everyone above when possible. In certain instances, mind control and shackle can be used to great success.


**Hunter** Hunters bring a good amount of sustained DPS to the group while being relatively low-maintainence in the way of healing required. Their freeze trap can be useful as a form of short duration CC to an incoming mob or as a safety placed on the healer for the beginning of the fight. They can feign death to remove agro from themselves and use their pets to taunt mobs off casters. Hunters can also be on the lookout for patrols on the minimap with tracking. Hunters are a primary damage dealer and should use an assist macro.


**Warlock** The warlock is sort of a magic niche-filler. The imp group stamina buff is appreciated and it does pretty decent damage for a pet. The succubus can offer CC through mesmerize. The voidwalker can be used as CC to keep a mob busy at the beginning of a fight. The felstalker can eat up magical debuffs or monster buffs. The warlock himself has banish which is a useful form of CC in some situations. A good warlock will know which monsters will run away on low health and apply Curse of Recklessness (rank 1) to them. A warlock also can place soulstone on a rezzer and provide healthstones to the main tank and/or mage (who's using AoE). Warlocks have decent AoE options and alliance ones can cast uninterruptible (with the help of a paladin and talents). The warlock should use an assist macro before placing any DoTs on a target.


**Druid** The druid is an all-around niche-filler. However, in the higher levels the druid will need the right gear or talents to fill in different roles. A feral druid with good armor and stamina can tank well in bear form. A restoration druid with decent int and spi can heal well enough to be a primary healer. Cat form is underpowered in the higher levels and not as useful to use. The druid may be called on to act as group healer in the higher level instances because of a general lack of priests. A good druid will change into bear when he gets a lot of agro at once (possibly cheetah in Zul'Farrak). Regrowth spam may be required to heal mages that are bursting with Arcane Explosion. Healing touch can be used on tanks and it might be a good idea to hotkey two different ranks of the spell. Cure curse and poison will be necessary in some instances along with entangle and hibernate.


**Paladin** The paladin is a good buffer and will need to pay attention to when blessings drop. Playing a paladin well requires pre-battle thought to which blessings and seals would be most beneficial to use against the coming fights. They can offer some in the way of emergency or touch-up healing. A paladin can be the safety for the group by casting blessing of protection to save a caster from death or divine intervention to same the group from a corpse run. Cleanse will be very useful in many instances. The paladin should use an assist macro for when he melees.


**Shaman** not enough first-hand observations/experience with high level instances.

Edit: Druids cure poison and not disease.

Basic Party Strategy - Artega - 02-28-2005

Quote:**Warrior**  Usually if there's only one warrior, he'll be the designated tank.  In the lower level instances, having maximum damage mitigation isn't as important (for a war) as being able to hold agro on multiple mobs at the same time.  A warrior as a tank should keep an eye on all mobs in a pull.  This way the warrior can go after mobs that make a mad dash for the casters.  To keep agro on multiple mobs, the warrior will need to use various AoE skills in conjunction with large agro single target skills on the mob everyone is attacking (tactical mastery helps).  Hamstring on runners helps when the group lacks other classes with good snares.

Piercing Howl is generally a better snaring solution than Hamstring; it's instant, area-effect, and causes a modest amount of hate. Later on, Warriors will need to be frequently switching targets to keep hate on themselves in five-man instances. In raid instances (such as Stratholme, UBRS, and possibly Scholomance), you'll generally want to have a Warrior, Mage, and Priest in every group. Each Warrior is assigned a specific target to tank, with the best-protected Warrior (typically Prot spec) taking the strongest mob (boss, particularly dangerous elites, etc.) The group kills the Main Tank's mob, then moves on to the other tanks' mobs. Any non-elites are destroyed by mage or warlock AE.

Quote:**Rogue**  The lower level the instance, the more a rogue can be a tank (for one mob at a time).  When the group already has a tank, the rogue helps with agro management by using feint to not get unneeded agro.  Vanish/evasion can also be used in emergencies.  A good rogue can be tough to kill and the healer can focus on other classes first.  Sap will be useful as a form of CC.  The rogue is a good class to be a main assist or a peeler.

Rogues are useful for lockpicking and are excellent as MAs in later instances. Though a bit risky, it's entirely possible for a Rogue to tank a tough mob with Evasion. Case in point: a Rogue can tank the Princess in BRD through use of Evasion while the rest of the group quickly kills the Emperor, thus allowing you to acquire and complete the quest.

Quote:**Mage**  The mage is useful for dealing damage and having an excellent source of CC.  A good mage will have a feel for how long his polymorphs last and be able to reapply polymorph before the mob has recovered.  Mages can also get a feel to how much hate their spells generate so that the don't burst too much.  Frost nova will sometimes help as a short-duration CC.  Additionally mages can try to manage their mana (when beneficial) to be in line with the primary healer's mana such that as little downtime is needed.  Some instances will require cure curse.  In most high level instances, instant arcane explosion and improved counterspell will be VERY handy.  Mages are a primary damage dealer and should use an assist macro.

You basically can't do later instances without a mage. While it's doable, it will be MUCH more difficult, and MUCH slower; The Lyceum is entirely possible to do without a mage (we had two Shaman), but it's much more difficult (we wiped once), and a fair bit slower.

Quote:**Priest**  Priests will usually be designated as primary healers and sometimes that means not casting any damage spells in the pursuit of group efficiency.  When possible, it's a good idea not to use HW: shield in combat as it appears to draw more hate then heals.  Greater heals can be used on tanks with good armor while flash heals will be necessary on softer classes.  People tend to get nervous when their health drops below 50% and depending on the instance it might be good to keep everyone above when possible.  In certain instances, mind control and shackle can be used to great success.

Completely vital to later instances. Druids are acceptable MHs early on (up until after Maraudon, usually), but the lack of a mana-efficient fast heal (like Flash Heal) and Power Word: Shield make them more limited. Their combat rez and Mark of the Wild are incredibly powerful, however.

Quote:**Hunter**  Hunters bring a good amount of sustained DPS to the group while being relatively low-maintainence in the way of healing required.  Their freeze trap can be useful as a form of short duration CC to an incoming mob or as a safety placed on the healer for the beginning of the fight.  They can feign death to remove agro from themselves and use their pets to taunt mobs off casters.  Hunters can also be on the lookout for patrols on the minimap with tracking.  Hunters are a primary damage dealer and should use an assist macro.

Pretty consistent damage, but they aren't a replacement for a Mage by any means. Pets make acceptable offtanks, and Hunter's Mark is invaluable for raid organization. Give Warriors the ability to put big red arrows on mobs, though, and you'll probably see a few less Hunters in raids :)

Quote:**Warlock**  The warlock is sort of a magic niche-filler.  The imp group stamina buff is appreciated and it does pretty decent damage for a pet.  The succubus can offer CC through mesmerize.  The voidwalker can be used as CC to keep a mob busy at the beginning of a fight.  The felstalker can eat up magical debuffs or monster buffs.  The warlock himself has banish which is a useful form of CC in some situations.  A good warlock will know which monsters will run away on low health and apply Curse of Recklessness (rank 1) to them.  A warlock also can place soulstone on a rezzer and provide healthstones to the main tank and/or mage (who's using AoE).  Warlocks have decent AoE options and alliance ones can cast uninterruptible (with the help of a paladin and talents).  The warlock should use an assist macro before placing any DoTs on a target.

Warlocks are definitely a niche-filler. They aren't as good as Mages at damage, but they're invaluable to raids nonetheless. Soulstones are wipe-preventers (in most cases), Healthstones are excellent for when the priests go OOM and we get adds, and their summoning assists in quickly assembling the raid group. DoTs can quickly add up, especially on boss mobs.

Quote:**Druid**  The druid is an all-around niche-filler.  However, in the higher levels the druid will need the right gear or talents to fill in different roles.  A feral druid with good armor and stamina can tank well in bear form.  A restoration druid with decent int and spi can heal well enough to be a primary healer.  Cat form is underpowered in the higher levels and not as useful to use.  The druid may be called on to act as group healer in the higher level instances because of a general lack of priests.  A good druid will change into bear when he gets a lot of agro at once (possibly cheetah in Zul'Farrak).  Regrowth spam may be required to heal mages that are bursting with Arcane Explosion.  Healing touch can be used on tanks and it might be a good idea to hotkey two different ranks of the spell.  Cure curse and disease will be necessary in some instances along with entrangle and hibernate.

I've yet to see an effective Druid tank at the endgame, but they make excellent backup healers, and their buff is the best in the game. Combat rez adds many possibilities, though Soulstones can do pretty much the same thing.

Quote:**Paladin**  The paladin is a good buffer and will need to pay attention to when blessings drop.  Playing a paladin well requires pre-battle thought to which blessings and seals would be most beneficial to use against the coming fights.  They can offer some in the way of emergency or touch-up healing.  A paladin can be the safety for the group by casting blessing of protection to save a caster from death or divine intervention to same the group from a corpse run.  Cleanse will be very useful in many instances.  The paladin should use an assist macro for when he melees.

I don't play with Paladins, I kill them. But I'd assume they're something like a harder-to-kill version of Shaman with lower DPS.

Quote:**Shaman** not enough first-hand observations/experience with high level instances.

Shaman are kinda like what I'm assuming Paladins are like - support classes. Their totems (particularly Windfury) come in handy, and they have healing that's good enough to keep an offtank alive. Their Reincarnation ability is a last-resort wipe-preventer, but the amount of Shaman that forget to stock up on ankhs is alarming.

EDIT: Fixed quote tags.
EDIT2: Improper word usage. Need sleep.

Basic Party Strategy - redinter - 02-28-2005

acidjax,Feb 28 2005, 11:45 AM Wrote:I'll start with some things I've observed and someone else can jump in to add/correct.

**Warlock**  The warlock is sort of a magic niche-filler.  The imp group stamina buff is appreciated and it does pretty decent damage for a pet.  The succubus can offer CC through mesmerize.  The voidwalker can be used as CC to keep a mob busy at the beginning of a fight.  The felstalker can eat up magical debuffs or monster buffs.  The warlock himself has banish which is a useful form of CC in some situations.  A good warlock will know which monsters will run away on low health and apply Curse of Recklessness (rank 1) to them.  A warlock also can place soulstone on a rezzer and provide healthstones to the main tank and/or mage (who's using AoE).  Warlocks have decent AoE options and alliance ones can cast uninterruptible (with the help of a paladin and talents).  The warlock should use an assist macro before placing any DoTs on a target.

Being a warlock player I can expand and add some tips.
Use your DoT on as many mobs as possible, but only on mobs that are being tanked or kept busy otherwise, this will be like a semi AoE. Keep in mind that mobs with DoTs on them cant be CC most of the time, due to damage breaking most CC spells.
Give out healthstones to all the party, they only cost mana and a shard. Which is practically free.
As acidjax said, Soulstone should always be placed on a rezzer.
Hellfire is a great AoE, but keep in mind that if the aggro lock of the tank isnt high enough you may get pounded by many angry mobs. Nonetheless it is a very good spell to kill low hp mass mobs. Remember to tell your healers to lookout when you use it as they will need to heal you. Group taunt of voidwalker or a mage nova are good spells to use right after casting hellfire to prevent mobs from massattacking the warlock.
Ritual of summoning should be used to quickly assembly the party.
Fear is very good CC, but using it in places where the mob will run into others and bring adds will cause a wipe, so you have to know your surroundings. If the mob is feared already and it seems it may run into adds, quickly cast immolation on it, most of the time it breaks the fear.
When fighting demons or elementals banish can be very useful, to CC adds or to give the party a breather in between, just remember to tell players that you can do it, otherwise they will be somewhat startled when the mob pops the immune message.
Enslave demon can help a lot, be it just before a battle, it will take a demon out of the equation, or in the battle, where it may tilt the battle in your party's favor. Remeber that you can not enslave a demon if you already have a pet outside, so dismiss or sacrifice it, if it is worth it. Also casting curse of shadows on the demon, before enslaving, helps it last longer. Be aware when the enlsave ends, it breaking in battle is a bad idea.
I have observed, but i need to test it a bit more, that curse of recklessness rank 1 may not work on higher level mobs, so i have to use the latest rank of the skill.
Should be self explaining, but when in water use waterbreathing on your party, when stealthed or invisible mobs are near, use detect invisibility.
Eye of Kilrogg is awesome to scout the area ahead, use it. A rogue can scout too, but if something detects him a battle with ensue, if something detect the eye, you can always cast a new one.

It got longer than intended, but more info is always useful. :P

Edit: some spelling corrected

Basic Party Strategy - Tal - 02-28-2005

acidjax,Feb 28 2005, 05:45 AM Wrote:**Paladin**  The paladin is a good buffer and will need to pay attention to when blessings drop.  Playing a paladin well requires pre-battle thought to which blessings and seals would be most beneficial to use against the coming fights.  They can offer some in the way of emergency or touch-up healing.  A paladin can be the safety for the group by casting blessing of protection to save a caster from death or divine intervention to same the group from a corpse run.  Cleanse will be very useful in many instances.  The paladin should use an assist macro for when he melees.
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Paladins in a group with a maintank are responsible for protecting the squishy center of the party. Once aggro is gained on the paladin he/she brings it back to the main tank. Blessings are nice to figure out before a fight but as has been pointed out repeatedly things go wrong™ - good paladins drop blessings as needed situationally. Tank tanking a heavy beating? Drop Blessing of Light for additional healing power. Healer/Mage taking aggro? Drop sanctuary on them and power up Seal of Fury to steal aggro. (This is effective into at least the fifties with improved seal of fury - I successfully kept aggro off Bolty who was using mind blast successively.) Consecration is a very good skill to have in addition to Seal of fury. It's holy damage adds threat when used with a judged seal of fury.

In line with situational blessings is the use of aura's that best fit the conflict at hand. Mobs with powerful melee effects will bring out devotion aura for better armor. Many mobs with low hitpoints will bring out retribution aura. Areas with fire attacks will require the fire aura, etc.

One thing many paladin's forget is that cleanse removes polymorph effects - highly useful not only in later instances but in PvP. :) To add to your thoughts on healing - the paladin should only worry about healing those that the main healer has designated for the paladin. Nothing worse than getting a big heal off on the main tank just before the priest lands their heal. ;)

Edit: Forgot auras.

Basic Party Strategy - DarkCrown - 02-28-2005

Artega,Feb 28 2005, 03:26 AM Wrote:I've yet to see an effective Druid tank at the endgame, but they make excellent backup healers, and their buff is the best in the game.  Combat rez adds many possibilities, though Soulstones can do pretty much the same thing.

I play a restoration specced druid, and I don't have a great set of bear gear yet. I've still managed to tank BRD, LBRS, Scholo and Strat. I was not as good as a warrior. To be that good I'd have to be twice the player, I simply don't have as many tools. But with a decent group behind you it's entirely do-able, though not always pretty.


You can 5-man BRD and LBRS with a druid tank. I think it would take some excellent play to 5-man Scholo or Strat with one.

One thing to keep in mind when looking at druid abilities; a druid gets less practice time at the different group roles than the actual class he fills in for. The druid has had perhaps one third of the experience (or less) of similar level warriors at tanking. He's spent less time learning how to heal than the priests have. I think that as more people get into their third or fourth level capped char we'll see druids played with much more skill in the end-game.

-DarkCrown

Basic Party Strategy - Mavfin - 02-28-2005

DarkCrown,Feb 28 2005, 11:32 AM Wrote:[snip]

One thing to keep in mind when looking at druid abilities; a druid gets less practice time at the different group roles than the actual class he fills in for. The druid has had perhaps one third of the experience (or less) of  similar level warriors at tanking. He's spent less time learning how to heal than the priests have.  I think that as more people get into their  third or fourth level capped char we'll see druids played with much more skill in the end-game.

-DarkCrown
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I can't speak to tanking an instance in bear form, but I will say, having played a warrior the most of all the classes, the rage setup of the bear comes naturally to me, so, I might be better at the bear than someone who hasn't played a warrior a lot. So, it's really experience once again that determines how good you are at it.

On the main subject, parties come in all different forms, and you'll never get a pickup party that performs like a party of friends who have grouped together a lot. A friend of mine and I know each other's habits well, and can anticipate the other's moves. Can't do that in pickup-group-of-the-day. You might get a priest who likes to pull! That group, strangely enough, kicked butt, the only one who died some was the priest, who was 5 levels below anyone else, and was a little reckless, but a great healer. She just laughed when she died, and merrily ran back to her corpse. It worked for her, I guess. :D



Basic Party Strategy - Xanthix - 02-28-2005

I can contribute a few things here. First, there's all the basic stuff like use good communication, don't run ahead, run TO the tank when you draw aggro, etc, that you'll find in most basic party guides. But let me throw in a few words about some of my pet issues:

Removing Debuffs
Good party members will remove debuffs from their partymates - lots of these debuffs reduce stats and impair combat effectiveness. The main healer does not always have the means (or mana) to remove them all:
  • Disease - Priests, Paladins, and Shamans can cure diseases.<>
  • Poison - Paladins, Shamans, and Druids can remove poison. Antivenom from First Aid can also remove poisons up to a certain level.<>
  • Magic - Priests, Paladins, Shamans, and Warlock Felhunters can dispel magic effects.<>
  • Curse - Druids and Mages can remove curses.<>
    [st]Preventing/Recovering from Wipes
    Preventing a wipeout in an instance is difficult but rewarding. Note that running will never work, since instance mobs will follow you through the whole zone. Here are the anti-wipe tactics I know of:
    • Warlock - Use a soulstone on a resser. They can then self-res after the wipe.<>
    • Shaman - Use self-res after the wipe (make sure you carry reagents!), and res others after.<>
    • Druid - Use combat resurrection on important people to prevent a wipe.<>
    • Paladin - Use Divine Intervention to shield/remove aggro from a resser (make sure you carry reagents!). If the mobs leave after the fight, they should be able to res people. Hard to pull off!<>
    • Instance layout - The resser can use terrain obstacles to hide from mobs if everyone else wipes. For example in the Deadmines, a resser can jump off the boat into the water where the mobs won't follow.<>
    • Run away! If a resser can see from the first moment that a pull will result in a wipe, they can run to a safe zone. If they have not drawn ANY aggro (not even casting renew or shield) they may get away, and can return to res. Watch out for patrols though!<>
    • Hunter Engineer - Use Feign Death if everyone else wipes, then use Goblin Jumper Cables on the resser.<>
    • Rogue Engineer - Use Vanish if everyone else wipes, then use Goblin Jumper Cables on the resser.<>
      [st]Let me know if I missed anything in these lists. :) Hope this helps!

      Edits: Lists updated to include additional information I missed. Thanks guys!


Basic Party Strategy - Treesh - 02-28-2005

Xanthix,Feb 28 2005, 11:33 AM Wrote:anyone with Antivenom from First Aid.
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Just a reminder, but sometimes your antivenom isn't quite powerful enough to get rid of the poison. If you don't have the strong anti-venom yet, there's quite a bit of poison that you can't get rid of. I've already run into that problem with my 37 priest. I've used it before, but now that we're in higher areas it just won't clear most of the poisons we're running into now.

Basic Party Strategy - DarkCrown - 02-28-2005

Xanthix,Feb 28 2005, 10:33 AM Wrote:[*]Curse - Only Mages can remove curses! And a lot of them are really nasty timebomb curses.

Druids can remove curses. They can also hibernate beasts and dragonkin (for 40 secs), which is often underutilized in raids.

-DarkCrown


Basic Party Strategy - Xanthix - 02-28-2005

Thanks for the updates Treesh and DarkCrown. I edited my post.

I have been looking for the recipe for Strong Antivenom to see how much more effective it is than regular Antivenom. But the recipe is extremely rare and expensive!

Maybe we should also put together a list of all mobs that can be controlled/removed from a fight, since this is a common need for good groups. Here are the ones I know of:
  • Mages: can polymorph humanoids, beasts, and critters<>
  • Druids: can hibernate beasts and dragonkin, can use Entangling Roots on anything outdoors<>
  • Warlocks: can banish elementals and demons, can enslave demons, their Succubi can seduce humanoids<>
  • Rogues: can sap humanoids<>
  • Priests: can shackle undead and mind control humanoids<>
  • Hunters: can lay freeze traps (prior to combat only)<>
  • Engineers: can control mechanical mobs with Gnomish Universal Remote<>
    [st]Edit: List updated thanks to helpful additions below
    Edit 2: List updated again, thanks for all the replies!


Basic Party Strategy - Boutros - 02-28-2005

Warlocks can Banish Elementals and Demons
Rogues can Sap Humanoids
Mages can only Poly Beasts, Critters, and Humanoids

As far as I know the only type that can't be CCed are Giants.

Basic Party Strategy - Cryptic - 02-28-2005

For the rogue, the role generally seems to evolve from tank into main assist. The low-level rogue is pretty straightforward, but here's a few notes devoted to rogues in high-level instances (Strat, Scholo, UBRS etc.).

The biggest shock in the high-level instances comes when you realize that you're a useless target dummy. You're wearing leather, and you do more damage than most warriors. But the mobs you're facing will still be standing after a Cold Blooded 5-pt. Evis. You will pull aggro and die.

Now it's time to adapt to the changed game.
:P

In most groups, your role as a rogue will be to control the pull and then to assist the main tank in bringing down the target. Control can be easily handled with a sap - be sure to communicate specifically what you're doing prior to the fight. (State the mob name; if there's two or more, it helps if you always favor one side. My guild knows I'll sap the leftmost same-named mob unless requested otherwise.)

Following that, you need to assist the tank. This requires a shift in attitude - you're no longer the killer. You're the controller and the finisher. Allow the tank to hold aggro, and don't draw too much attention to yourself. This is especially true in places like Stratholme when you may end up with 5 or 6 mobs pulled and a bonus swarm of additional critters. Make yourself useful, and do not give your healer a migraine.

How do you do this? Stun your targets. When the tank is ready to open a battle, stealth. Let them pull. When the mob is brought back to the group, cheap shot the warrior's target. Keep attacking it and pull a kidney shot when you can. While doing this, be watching your casters - if any of them draw aggro, it's your job to go peel it away. The tank doesn't want to run over there and pull mobs with him and disrupt the entire battle.

Allowing a skilled tank of similar level to hold is usually not a problem. But if you deal lots of damage, or the warrior is lower level than you, you may need to hold back on sinister strikes or whatever. Eviscerate and other such hate-generating finishers are best used when the high-level mob is at 20% health or less. Personally, I switch out of agility gear and into stamina for the instances. Feint like crazy. Evade. Use Crippling Poison II if there are runners. Use debuff effects if they don't interfere with the group dynamic. Don't vanish if you can help it, it's disruptive and unreliable. I make sure I have a huge array of healing potions and bandages to allow the priest to focus on the others. Sometimes I even switch out the epic weapons and downgrade to thrash blade.

There are four times when I will go all-out and unleash all of my damage - (1) To save a caster's life, (2) When a mob is at 20% or less, (3) When I'm facing a boss, (4) When I've drawn aggro and I have no way to lose it. (1) should be uncommon, (2) is all the time, (3) is situational and (4) should be rare.

(1) Casters
Go all-out. Draw the aggro, evade, stun when you can. The appreciative caster will probably assist you as soon as they can. When the target is dead, go back to assisting the tank.

(2) Finishers
You will learn each mob's relative life, armor and damage levels. Don't unleash until you're sure you can finish the mob quickly. Done properly, you will save the tank precious seconds that they can use to attack the next mob and you won't take any damage. By the time the mob turns to retaliate, it's dead.

(3) Bosses
Depending on the size of the group, the power of the tank(s) and the nastiness of the boss, you may want to stay alive. But often, it's your mission to draw crazy aggro, evade, heal, deal lots of damage and die. Pulling the Baron off of a wounded tank to commit a self-sacrifice is a good thing. As individual boss tactics are learned, group dynamics will improve to the point that you usually don't die or don't have to go all-out.

(4) Hate
It will happen, especially in extended battles. You get an accidental high-damage critical and all your timers are shot. Do everything that you can, do as much damage as possible. Heal if you have the chance. Do not call for aid if the group is swarmed - they have bigger problems. If need be, pull the mob(s) into a corner or other place where they'll have a long trek back to your allies, and where your body will be easy to reach and res. Do not run, especially into unexplored territory. Back into the best piece of cleared territory possible while dealing damage.

A note on healing

Food is good prior to the instance. The best time to ask for buffs is before the run begins. Battle buffs are usually for tanks. Potions are best used as quickly as you can get benefit from them, so that the timer is as short as possible. Bandages are for use when you've killed a mob and don't have aggro and the tank has things under control. The advantage to self-healing is not only to keep you alive, but more importantly, to allow the healer(s) to focus on others. The more you heal yourself, the more you're an asset and the less you're a liability.


Basic Party Strategy - Artega - 03-01-2005

<3 Cryptic

Now if only every Rogue ever conceived could read that post, my life would be infinitely easier.

Xanthix: I'm pretty sure I got the manual for Strong Anti-Venom off of a unique Rock Elemental in Thousand Needles. Requires a Large Venom Sac to make three vials. Personally, I'd just farm the Kurzen healers for Jungle Remedies. I haven't used them recently (since I'm basically always partied with a Shaman or Priest at this point), but they'd heal my diseases and/or poisons nine times out of ten when I was in my forties. There's no apparent cooldown, and they don't interfere with curative or utility potions, so if it fails to cure you the first time, drink another.

Basic Party Strategy - Skandranon - 03-01-2005

Xanthix,Feb 28 2005, 04:57 PM Wrote:Anything but undead: can be polymorphed by Mages
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Wrong. Elementals, demons, giants and mechanicals are just four of the types that can't be polymorphed. Better to phrase it as only Beasts and Humanoids (there will be no attacking Critters in an instance).

Basic Party Strategy - Artega - 03-01-2005

Skandranon,Mar 1 2005, 03:01 AM Wrote:(there will be no attacking Critters in an instance).
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Wrong. Plagued Maggots, Plagued Insects, and Plagued Rats are all classified as Critters. This means you can't autotarget them (by pressing Attack, for example), which is a source of annoyance.

Basic Party Strategy - MongoJerry - 03-01-2005

Xanthix,Feb 28 2005, 02:57 PM Wrote:Maybe we should also put together a list of all mobs that can be controlled/removed from a fight, since this is a common need for good groups. Here are the ones I know of:
  • <>
  • Anything but undead: can be polymorphed by Mages
    <>
  • Undead: can be shackled by Priests
    <>
  • Beasts/dragonkin: can be hibernated by Druids
    <>
  • Humanoids: can be seduced by Warlocks' Succubi
    <>
  • Humanoids: can be mind controlled by Priests
    <>
    [st]

As noted by Skandranon, Mages can only sheep humanoids and beasts. Warlocks can banish demons and elementals, however. Rogues can sap humanoids.

Dunno if you want to include stun and fear techniques with this. There are a lot of them.

Basic Party Strategy - Skandranon - 03-01-2005

Artega,Mar 1 2005, 03:32 AM Wrote:Wrong.&nbsp; Plagued Maggots, Plagued Insects, and Plagued Rats are all classified as Critters.&nbsp; This means you can't autotarget them (by pressing Attack, for example), which is a source of annoyance.
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Nope. They're unpolymorphable, so they're not critters. They're classified as simply "no type", like the Silithids (which are also unpolymorphable). And even if you could polymorph one, there'd be no point to it.

Basic Party Strategy - playingtokrush - 03-01-2005

Skandranon,Mar 1 2005, 03:14 AM Wrote:Nope.&nbsp; They're unpolymorphable, so they're not critters.&nbsp; They're classified as simply "no type", like the Silithids (which are also unpolymorphable).&nbsp; And even if you could polymorph one, there'd be no point to it.
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Yeah, slimes and oozes are also "typeless."

Basic Party Strategy - Xanthix - 03-01-2005

Artega,Feb 28 2005, 08:15 PM Wrote:Xanthix: I'm pretty sure I got the manual for Strong Anti-Venom off of a unique Rock Elemental in Thousand Needles.
[snip]
There's no apparent cooldown, and they don't interfere with curative or utility potions, so if it fails to cure you the first time, drink another.
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Thanks, I caved and just bought the recipe at auction. I have not tried Strong Anti-Venom yet, but regular Anti-Venom has a longish cooldown. Very annoying, as many things that poison you tend to do so repeatedly.