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Hunter's Instance Role... - Mirajj - 03-24-2005
...I'm about to get to the age where I can start instancing with other Lurkers. The problem is that I've solo'ed almost my entire 'life'. I see a lot of complaints about people (especially hunters) "instancing like they are solo'ing" and thus I wonder what it is during an instance I'm "supposed" to be doing.
In the one (though I've been in a few times) I've been in, I pulled with arrows, sicc'ed my cat on them, and if they got too close, went melee with them. Pretty much what I'd do out of an instance, and thus the likely label of 'instancing like I'm soloing.'
So, what should I be doing in an instance group?
Hunter's Instance Role... - ryan4nayr - 03-24-2005
Whenever we partied with my college buddy's Hunter, it wasn't really the DPS that mattered, though most of the time his gun did so much dmg he got too much hate. He wasn't a huge fan of Feign Death nor Disengage as you can tell, but if there was a competent tank in the party, those'd be useful.
The Tracking skills were incredibly helpful, we received advance warning of wandering instance patrols. Traps also helped create the mood when we were springing a surprise party for pulled mobs.
Don't count out your Hunter just yet, he's not just for Hunter's Mark.
Hunter's Instance Role... - liffuie - 03-24-2005
well for higher end instances we tend to be dps plane in simple. yeah we have sevral misc abilities that help a group but our primary role is to kill things.
primarily you should be "assisting" your tank. This helps the tank keep mobs on him where they belong, and helps keep mobs at a distance so you do more damage. Can do this by targeting the tank, and pushing f key on the keyboard, or making an assist macro ( /assit "tank name").
but urm, yeah=p feign death is incredbily useful. Upper end st+ skilled timing use of feign death allows you to do more dps without agro concerns. THink of it as your easy hate reducer. By feigning death you wipe your agro to 0, so the tank doesn't have to fight to take it off, and you spend more of the fight doing dps which is your job, instead of trying to get out of ranged dead zone
yeah you can melee but...well my ranged dps with my equipment at least my ranges does 2x more dps consitantly then I could do in melee.(both weapon sets of mine are epic/rare 50+ items) Its in the groups best intrest for me to keep to range, using feign death to control agro (usualy I fd usualy 70% into first mob so I can go the rest of the fight without worrying),.
Your trusty pet which you've used as a tank in the outside, for instances I view more as a moble dot machine. Sometimes you can use it as an offtank, but in brd+ if you do use it as a off tank, the pet tends to last less then 20 seconds unless you spend time healing it, which takes off your role as dps. Using it this way can help in an emergancy, but for most purposes I find if the tank is doing okay, by all means take agro off the priest, let the tank get a few hits, then hit cower.
Another problem to realize in pet usage in long battles, the pet has a HARD time getting agro on adds. Say you got a 5 pull, you get it down to 3 mobs, but the warrior loses agro on one and it goes on the priest, most likely it will take 5-6 growls for your pet to gain agro. Why is this? well your pet waas on one npcs(the ones you killed already) the entire fight. the extra oness it wasn't on, it was getting 0 agro on. Your priest/aeing mage however has been getting agro the entire time. Combine the two and well=/ lets just stay growl sucks at that point
One tatic i've learnt fror that circumstance is to back the pet off entirely, putting it on hold, then feign death next to the priest, get up (don't engage anything) and pop a freeze trap (make sure the mob isn't doted). skilled use of that is luv=p but you need to do it right away. If any of the mobs reagros you via an ae, or group attack move, your back in combat and can't do that. timing as well as knowing if the npc is freeze trapable is critical
Hunter's Instance Role... - MongoJerry - 03-24-2005
liffuie,Mar 24 2005, 01:38 AM Wrote:primarily you should be "assisting" your tank. This helps the tank keep mobs on him where they belong, and helps keep mobs at a distance so you do more damage. Can do this by targeting the tank, and pushing f key on the keyboard, or making an assist macro ( /assit "tank name").
Generally, you don't want to assist the tank, because the tank will likely have to switch targets multiple times to make sure to keep aggro on everything. Most groups usually assign someone else to be the Main Assist or MA for short. This is the person who decides what mob should be the next to die. That's the person you should be assisting, and you should make a macro button that automatically assists that person. Most commonly, the assist person is a rogue or spare warrior (in a raid situation), but the hunter him or herself can be an effective MA as well, since then all the other partymembers have to do is follow the bouncing arrow.
Hunter's Instance Role... - Alram - 03-24-2005
Speaking from my very limited experiences in low end instances, imo it depends on the composition of the group. I have been in instances more than once where the Hunter's pets were the primary tanks. So I would say you have to be adaptable.
Hunter's Instance Role... - Skandranon - 03-24-2005
MongoJerry,Mar 24 2005, 03:57 AM Wrote:Generally, you don't want to assist the tank, because the tank will likely have to switch targets multiple times to make sure to keep aggro on everything. Most groups usually assign someone else to be the Main Assist or MA for short. This is the person who decides what mob should be the next to die. That's the person you should be assisting, and you should make a macro button that automatically assists that person. Most commonly, the assist person is a rogue or spare warrior (in a raid situation), but the hunter him or herself can be an effective MA as well, since then all the other partymembers have to do is follow the bouncing arrow.
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This is more like raid advice than 5-man advice, in my tanking experience. In a raid situation, there are often a great many mobs, and the tank has to swap targets whenever one of the ones that wasn't tagged goes after the squishies because of heal aggro. In smaller instances, i.e. anything below Dire Maul, pulls are often small and manageable enough that the tank can easily hold aggro on the entire pull if the party does nothing but assist the main tank. For anything under level 40, splitting the MA and MT roles doesn't really help that much, though it does get you into good habits for later play.
Hunter's Instance Role... - Occhidiangela - 03-24-2005
Hi:
I am not sure if English is your native tongue. The term you appear to be trying to use is "plain and simple."
Quote:well for higher end instances we tend to be dps plane in simple. yeah we have sevral misc abilities that help a group but our primary role is to kill things
It is an example of redundant turns of phrase. :blink:
Your post is a bit hard to read. "Preview" is your friend. ;)
All nagging aside, I found some of your observations useful. If I ever play on Tichondrius again, with my Troll Hunter, I will keep them in mind.
Occhi
Edited due to tags doing something weird.
Hunter's Instance Role... - kandrathe - 03-24-2005
MongoJerry,Mar 24 2005, 03:57 AM Wrote:Generally, you don't want to assist the tank, because the tank will likely have to switch targets multiple times to make sure to keep aggro on everything. Most groups usually assign someone else to be the Main Assist or MA for short. This is the person who decides what mob should be the next to die. That's the person you should be assisting, and you should make a macro button that automatically assists that person. Most commonly, the assist person is a rogue or spare warrior (in a raid situation), but the hunter him or herself can be an effective MA as well, since then all the other partymembers have to do is follow the bouncing arrow.
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MJ, you've been in every instance now I believe. Honestly, if you were building parties, in which instances would you exclude hunters? In your raids on MC, how many Hunters were included? Did you look for them, or were they grudgingly allowed to come along?
I've only been in the lower level instances, Stockades, BFD, RFC, WC, Gnomeregan with my Hunters. Of that list, Stockades I would say is not Hunter friendly, you have huge LOS(line of sight) issues with hallways and sunken rooms. Entering a room to get LOS often results in adds, and an errant pet only makes things worse. Now, if the party were cognizant of the LOS issues and pulled those closest to the door out into the hallway where the hunter can use his DPS ranged skills.
A hunter can be valuable in using tracking to let the party know about mobs, if they communicate that to their party. But I fear special tracking powers alone, with very little opportunity to participate in adding large DPS are not going to endear the Hunter to the higher level instances. Traps appear to be specially tailored for party play, but parties need to work with the hunter to make use of them. I've seen many hunters place traps for the puller to use, only to have the puller move forward of the trap and leaving it unused. Now that my NE hunter is 32, I have flare which might be helpful in revealing hidden enemies and *cough* find hidden *cough* which is mostly useless unless you trip over the hidden mob. Find Hidden is the third worst hunter skill, after Aspect Of The Beast, and of course Lacerate.
What would be nice is to have instance guides where each classes special talents might be mentioned.
I can offer some hunter party do's and don'ts;
1 - Do not pull mobs off the tank, either with massive aimed shot, or your pets growl. The tank expended time and effort to become the damage sponge, so let him. Pets are hard to target to heal, so often the pet will have the aggro on a mob, until it dies due to lack of heals, then the mob moves to #2 enemy, the priest. Communicate in advance with your party how you want to try to handle adds. That is, have the tank double team them, mage sheep them, or have your pet tank them.
2 - Do tether your pet (Passive), his pathing is AI based and so often his pathing choices will pull adds. Better that your pet stands idle next to you rather than do the wrong thing. Remember that your pets aggro radius is based on his level. If you are 24 and he is 16, all mobs in a one mile radius are going to be pulled by your pet.
3 - In instances I generally want my pet to wait until the tank has established aggro, I disable Growl on his pet bar, and then I sic kitty on the tanks target. Unless, the mob is too close to wandering patrols or potential adds. I prefer to use my ranged attack on mobs at the minimum ranged distance to keep the party close together. If I'm pulling with a ranged shot and kitty is tanking, then I will wait to sic kitty (with growl on now) on the mob until the mob has closed to my shortest range. I find pet pulling to be mostly useless in instances due to the number of close together, or linked mobs. But, if I'm using the pet to safely pull a wandering patrol I will have kitty take one swipe to get the mobs attention, then issue the Come! command to bring the mob back to the party.
4 - Keep your pets training maximized. When you are needed and asked to pull aggro off a priest, it would be nice for your pet to know more than Growl 2.
5 - Know how to navigate your pet over obstacles. I made this newb mistake in my first run into RFC, when the group jumped down trying to bypass some 20 mobs. I jumped down and my "best friend" in an effort to stay by my side ran around pulling 20 mobs in his wake. My newb hunter mistake, made once, which wiped the group. Reading post like this can help to avoid making these mistakes. Now, with my other characters I take the time to chat with the hunters about how they will navigate the obstacles, just to prevent them from learning the hard way, like I did.
6 - Practice your pulling skills in groups outside instances, including Feign Death. Find a party of friends, dismiss your pet, and try to act as puller for the party. Practice pulling mobs off the soft-shelled party members with distracting shot, and running the mob to the tank. One aspect of your utility in a group is that you and your pet are expendable, so it is good to learn how to save the priest by sacrificing yourself.
Edit: I had some stupid grammar and spelling errors. I wouldn't want to look like a moron. :)
Hunter's Instance Role... - liffuie - 03-24-2005
sorry about the bad english!
anyways in my exp, usualy my guilds tanks easily keep agro of mutiple mobs even in the heticness of one group scholomance/lbrs. when they do need to change they usual lay a sunder down, then assist me to get back on the main target. When I see this happening (sometimes I miss it), i stop a shot or two, so as to cut agro a bit.
Truthfuly though your guy's advice probably a bit more accurate to a random group. I havn't done a random group since scarlet monestary, I"ve always waited for friends I trust to log in or later on for guildmates to become free rather then risk a random group
Hunter's Instance Role... - liffuie - 03-24-2005
kandrathe,Mar 24 2005, 09:42 AM Wrote:MJ, you've been in every instance now I believe. Honestly, if you were building parties, in which instances would you exclude hunters? In your raids on MC, how many Hunters were included? Did you look for them, or were they grudgingly allowed to come along?
in the upper instances strathe/scholmance/lbrs its a fist fight to get into a group=p
for M-C/onyxia well it depends on guild as no random group of people is going to do them.
However many guilds that i've seen have taken the stance of telling all their 60 rogues to reroll, as hunters are the prefered dps there. Because of all the AE's, it takes a great rogue (skill wise), to be able to avoid all the AE's consistantly. A "average" rogue, to them is just a mana sink heal wise.
THis is vs a hunter, played by an average player, that can just stick back avoiding all ae dmg , pling arrows , and feign death every so often, and still do more total dmg on every boss fight.
My guild we don't take that harsh a stance, as to exclude rogues, so we typicaly have 3-4 rogues, and 4-5 hunters per raid. Note though, if we're short a class, like we need more healers, rogues are the first to be asked to leave.
Hunter's Instance Role... - Treesh - 03-24-2005
kandrathe,Mar 24 2005, 10:42 AM Wrote:Now that my NE hunter is 32, I have flare which might be helpful in revealing hidden enemies and *cough* find hidden *cough* which is mostly useless unless you trip over the hidden mob. Find Hidden is the third worst hunter skill, after Aspect Of The Beast, and of course Lacerate.I think you'll be pleasantly surprised if you use track hidden now. The patch seems to have fixed it, at least for PvE. Marn and Mogo were hunting shadowmaw panthers in stranglethorn vale and the kitties showed up for Marn, but definitely not for me. He even marked them and it still didn't show up for me until he hit it, Montu hit it, or I stumbled across it. It's much better now.
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Hunter's Instance Role... - Darian - 03-24-2005
Mirajj,Mar 24 2005, 12:21 AM Wrote:...I'm about to get to the age where I can start instancing with other Lurkers. The problem is that I've solo'ed almost my entire 'life'. I see a lot of complaints about people (especially hunters) "instancing like they are solo'ing" and thus I wonder what it is during an instance I'm "supposed" to be doing.
In the one (though I've been in a few times) I've been in, I pulled with arrows, sicc'ed my cat on them, and if they got too close, went melee with them. Pretty much what I'd do out of an instance, and thus the likely label of 'instancing like I'm soloing.'
So, what should I be doing in an instance group?
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Did I set this off with that comment in "Worst Groups"? ;)
It's not so much what you should be doing, but what you shouldn't. You may innately already understand most of what I'm about to say. Some hunters actually do, and I've been happy to have them around. And most of it is not because they suck; it's just a matter of experience. So, understanding that, some advice from a tank who's also got a hunter with two finished instances:
Things I've seen hunters do in an instance group:
1) This is the big one, and it's the thing that I was mostly referring to in my comment in the "Worst Group" post. Hunters who pick one mob on a multi-pull -- NOT the one I have targeted -- and basically try to solo it while the rest of the party does things normally, and paying no attention to any mob other than the one they've pulled until it's dead. While any class can make this error, it seems more prone to happen with hunters. On that Sunken Temple run I referred to, if there were five mobs, it was me and my two guildmates taking on three of them in the way a group would normally take on three mobs (MC/shackle one if approriate, focus on another until dead with me applying AoE taunts to keep the third occupied, etc.)... and the other two hunters each soloing the other two mobs separately away from the main group (at least until the "good" hunter caught on; the other guy never did). Note that there are cases where this could well be the apprpriate tactic -- but not very often, and generally only when the encounter is a walkover for the party anyway.
2) Open on the right mob -- but with a devastating aimed shot before the pull has actually commenced or before the tank has built up any significant hate. This is bad... you want to start with steady DPS until the tank has had an opportunity to lay in his initial aggro builds (basically at least give enough time for the tank to fire off 2-3 one second cooldown abilities. Then it's okay to open up on the main target. If you start pouring on damage too quickly, the tank will never be able to get aggro back off you unless you completely stop dealing damage (feign or just stop attacking)... and he's probably not going to bother if he's busy holding the attention of the four mobs you didn't aggro so that they don't go eat the priest. It's better to just deal a lower amount of damage steadily than to deal a whole bunch at once and then none at all. (This is because everyone would rather you stay below the tank on the hate list, but still above the squishies. Stop doing any damage at all or feign in order to drop aggro, and the squishies will move ahead of you.) Rogues are also capable of this mistake, but they learn not to do it real fast since they don't have a pet to cover for them; once they get aggro, they start getting mauled.
3) Using, or not using, volley/multi-shot in inappropriate situations. Using it when the party's fighting one elite and a pack of non-elite cannon fodder: proper. Using it on a bunch of elites: bad, unless things have gotten desperate and the hunter has somehow become the last best chance to save the healbot from being mauled by a group of mobs. Obviously, there are other classes who improperly use AoE as well, but hardly any of them avoid using it when they should use it; hunters have a tendency to do just that.
4) Traps. Ahh... grr. Don't get me wrong; I like traps. I especially like traps that allow our ranged attackers to rip the entire oncoming phalanx to pieces before they even get into melee range. Often they're just what's called for. But way too often a hunter will pull out a trap and drop it right in front of the party where it does the least good. Or they'll drop a trap when the pull is one mob and the tank is just going to charge in and start beating with no reason at all to pull the mob back TO the party. Or they'll drop a trap in the right place, but get tetchy when the tank gets his ass stunned and can't pull the mobs back over it. If you're pulling, trap away. If you and the tank have an understanding about how you're going to trap, go for it. But unless you know the layout better than the tank, it's best to defer to him on this -- because it's more important that the tank be comfortable with his pulling technique than it is for him to adjust it so you can use your abilities. (Not because the tank is an egotistical primadonna, but because a tank forced into an uncomfortable style is going to get everyone killed, almost guaranteed. If you want a tank to learn how to use your abilities, go off and duo with him someplace relatively safe and let him learn how to work with you that way. An instance is not the place for it.)
5) Pets. You can't leave your pet on defensive, and you absolutely shouldn't ever even have it in aggressive in a group. You don't want to know how often I've heard someone say they had to tell a hunter that. You have to learn how to manage your pet's abilities, mainly growl -- and it's a completely different dynamic than when soloing. (After all, solo, you always want your pet to take the aggro, because you can always rez your pet. In a group, you want your pet, just like you, to sit on the hate list behind the tank, but ahead of the squishies.) And, as someone else already mentioned... you have to learn when to dismiss your pet. Granted, this can be just as true when soloing, but failing to do it in a group kills five people, not just you.
6) Hunters who aren't used to grouping think of themselves as the tank. Our guild has another level 60 hunter who has spent almost all of her career duoing with her boyfriend, a level 60 priest. Now, it's not her "fault" she plays the way she does; she learned an appropriate method of play for her circumstances (read: keep the priest alive at all costs), and we are now having to try and train her out of it. Unfortunately, as a result when I go into instances with her, she gets yelled at. A lot. ;) The first time she ran an instance with me (a pally was with us also), she actually said "Hey, we have three tanks." Umm, no. Tankish pets are great, but they are not tanks in a group. They can't be, because they are AI and cannot react on the fly to situatons. Your pet is never going to disengage from the mob to save the priest's ass. He's never going to build aggro on any mob other than the one he's fighting. And being totally honest about it, it's not a good idea for you to change targets for the purpose of instructing your pet to change targets (which AFAIK is the only way you can control things). That means that in a group, you are not the tank. You are a source of steady DPS who also has a few evil tricks to pull out of your bag.
Summing up, hunters can be and often are important parts of a party. (The group I drove to 60 with included one, and he had to learn all of the above at one point or another, and he's always welcome to come with me anywhere.) A hunter who knows his stuff in a group is awesome. But there are a lot of challenges for the previously solo-driven hunter to overcome, precisely because they are such an awesome solo class.
Hunter's Instance Role... - Shriek - 03-24-2005
My main is now lvl 42 with no real instance play, so I'm reading this thread with real interest. I haven't instanced because I'm not terribly interested in pickup-groups, and my guild is small and mostly lvl 60, so I spend most of my time soloing or running with my wife who is usually 5-10 levels below me, or 5-10 levels above my alts :(
That said, the following surprised me:
kandrathe,Mar 24 2005, 10:42 AM Wrote:1 - Do not pull mobs off the tank, either with massive aimed shot, or your pets growl. The tank expended time and effort to become the damage sponge, so let him. Pets are hard to target to heal, so often the pet will have the aggro on a mob, until it dies due to lack of heals, then the mob moves to #2 enemy, the priest. Communicate in advance with your party how you want to try to handle adds. That is, have the tank double team them, mage sheep them, or have your pet tank them.
I don't understand how mitigating damage to the tank is a bad thing. If my pet can get above the tank on the aggro list, that's wonderful--give both the tank and the healer some breathing room. The important thing is that the tank not overestimate the pet--if the tank manages the aggro as if the mob was attacking her, then the priest is safe if the pet dies.
Now I can see this causing issues if the tank is drawn away from the mob that the pet has locked-down.
I know I don't fully understand threat management yet, nor do I understand the warrior's repitoir (mine's only 12). Am I missing something?
Hunter's Instance Role... - Darian - 03-25-2005
Shriek,Mar 24 2005, 07:23 PM Wrote:I don't understand how mitigating damage to the tank is a bad thing. If my pet can get above the tank on the aggro list, that's wonderful--give both the tank and the healer some breathing room. The important thing is that the tank not overestimate the pet--if the tank manages the aggro as if the mob was attacking her, then the priest is safe if the pet dies.
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At least as far as I've ever been able to tell, once your pet is dead, the mob is coming after you, rather than latching onto me as the next-most-annoying factor in the combat. Maybe this only happens when the hunter's back there out-damaging me and I just haven't noticed, but I'm pretty sure your pet aggro is your aggro except when the mob is deciding whether to hit you or your pet.
Hunter's Instance Role... - kandrathe - 03-25-2005
Shriek,Mar 24 2005, 06:23 PM Wrote:...
That said, the following surprised me:
I don't understand how mitigating damage to the tank is a bad thing. If my pet can get above the tank on the aggro list, that's wonderful--give both the tank and the healer some breathing room. The important thing is that the tank not overestimate the pet--if the tank manages the aggro as if the mob was attacking her, then the priest is safe if the pet dies.
Now I can see this causing issues if the tank is drawn away from the mob that the pet has locked-down.
I know I don't fully understand threat management yet, nor do I understand the warrior's repitoir (mine's only 12). Am I missing something?
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When the warrior gets hit it generates rage, so if the pet draws the aggro if defocuses not only the healing from the warrior, but also rage generation.
Hunter's Instance Role... - kandrathe - 03-25-2005
Darian,Mar 24 2005, 07:49 PM Wrote:At least as far as I've ever been able to tell, once your pet is dead, the mob is coming after you, rather than latching onto me as the next-most-annoying factor in the combat. Maybe this only happens when the hunter's back there out-damaging me and I just haven't noticed, but I'm pretty sure your pet aggro is your aggro except when the mob is deciding whether to hit you or your pet.I will test to be sure, but I believe it has to do with who generated the last hate in after the pet dies, or who generated to most hate.
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Hunter's Instance Role... - Watto44 - 03-25-2005
shriek,Mar 25 2005, 10:23 as Wrote:I don't understand how mitigating damage to the tank is a bad thing. If my pet can get above the tank on the aggro list, that's wonderful--give both the tank and the healer some breathing room. The important thing is that the tank not overestimate the pet--if the tank manages the aggro as if the mob was attacking her, then the priest is safe if the pet dies.
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Another way to look at this, and to understand why it's a bad thing, is this. By pulling off the tank, you're forcing the healer to split his energies between the tank and your pet. The healer is also going to have to heal more often than if the tank was the only one with agro. That's going to increase the healer's mana drain, as well as increase the agro they are generating. More healing equals more agro on the healer which equals dead healer. And we don't want that now, do we kiddies? :D
Hunter's Instance Role... - savaughn - 03-25-2005
Shriek,Mar 24 2005, 04:23 PM Wrote:I don't understand how mitigating damage to the tank is a bad thing. If my pet can get above the tank on the aggro list, that's wonderful--give both the tank and the healer some breathing room. The important thing is that the tank not overestimate the pet--if the tank manages the aggro as if the mob was attacking her, then the priest is safe if the pet dies. This is actually a really good question. I'd like to add to some of the other answers a bit. Here's a couple other reasons I thought might add to this:
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1) Everyone hits the same mob.
- In a well functioning party, everyone should be working with the main assist to kill the same mob. When you kill that mob, the overall DPS that the party is receiving is substantially reduced. A pet's DPS may not be the highest in the party, but it is significant, especially if you think about it over the entire instance. Having that damage go anywhere except on the targetted mob increases the overall damage the party takes.
2) Pets don't have Tank level armor.
- At level 40, the game changes. Many of the classes suddenly get to wear much heavier armor, which balances out because the monsters start hitting substantially harder. Tank pets will typically have around 30% armor, less for DPS focused pets. By comparison, a typical mail wearer might bring 35% armor and a plate wearer will be in excess of 40%. On top of this, the tank brings a host of defensive abilities to the table such as an improved parry, shield block, etc. If the damage is aimed at the tank, in general, the party takes less damage as a whole.
3) Heals on only one target.
- The healer for the party should ideally only have to concentrate on one target - the main tank. This person should be taking damage the slowest and should be fairly easy to heal. Spreading damage across to other party members makes this job more complicated. Pets are especially bad because without a mod, it is harder to see a pet's hps. It's even worse if the hunter trys to use mend pet - hands down the worst heal in the game and really just a waste of mana.
4) The Pet may die.
- Only on fairly easy pulls is a pet going to be able to off-tank with no heals while the group chews through the entire pull. Unless the healer heals the pet, the pet has a good chance to go down. Obviously, the big plus of a pet tanking is how fast they regenerate hps after combat. If that gamble doesn't play out, however, the whole party is stuck with lower DPS during the fight (because the pet is dead and not contributing) on top of a downtime while the hunter rez's the pet and then recovers his mana.
5) There's a better use for Focus.
- In a group with a plate wearing tank, the group doesn't need the pet to taunt. In this case, unchecking growl and checking bite and claw will improve the groups overall DPS without reducing it's effectiveness. If the pet pulls aggro, tossing in a cower takes care of the problem. Cower does wonderful things with group and instance play.
That said, there are absolutely great places for a pet to off-tank during an instance - especially adds and On-Me's where a caster or healer pulls aggro. In these cases, having the pet run over and growl the mob off the squishy is brilliant and gives the tank the time to come over and peel the mob off the pet as needed. But, in general, if the tank has the mob no one should peel it off of him.
Hunter's Instance Role... - savaughn - 03-25-2005
kandrathe,Mar 24 2005, 07:35 PM Wrote:I will test to be sure, but I believe it has to do with who generated the last hate in after the pet dies, or who generated to most hate.Tonight while playing I had a pet tanking a mob and when it died the mob switched attention to another party member. It's just one instance, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
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Hunter's Instance Role... - Skandranon - 03-25-2005
Darian,Mar 24 2005, 04:09 PM Wrote:1) This is the big one, and it's the thing that I was mostly referring to in my comment in the "Worst Group" post. Hunters who pick one mob on a multi-pull -- NOT the one I have targeted -- and basically try to solo it while the rest of the party does things normally, and paying no attention to any mob other than the one they've pulled until it's dead. While any class can make this error, it seems more prone to happen with hunters. [right][snapback]71782[/snapback][/right]
I think you've taken a very generous angle on this. Sure, any class *can* make the error, but I have never yet seen a non-hunter screw up in this way. Usually, the mob they're trying to solo is also the one they've got marked - as if, somehow, the Hunter's Mark determines what the "right" target should be, and that the hunter should attack it until the rest of the party comes around.