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Warriors For The Rest Of Us - LavCat - 05-28-2005
Fafner has been reading so much about Defensive builds vs. Arms/Fury builds. She wants to be well liked in her little gnomish way, but she chose a Fury/Arms build for herself.
So far:
Fury
----
Booming Voice 1
Cruelty 5 (she's really not cruel, really)
Improved Demoralizing Shout 5
Improved Cleavage 3 (that's what she tells me)
Piercing Howl 1
Improved Battle Shout 5
Enrage 5
Flurry 5
Arms
----
Deflection 5
Improved Rend 3
Improved Charge 2
Deep Wounds 3
Tactical Mastery 3
She plans to max. Tactical Mastery and select Anger Management. That leaves a couple of talent points. One is undecided and the last will go into Sweeping Strikes.
Originally she wanted Mortal Strike and a Big Axe, but when Mortal Strike got nerfed she decided on her current build. More often than not she quests alone using sword and shield in Battle Stance. In instances she has learned to drop into Defensive Stance, typically after a charge followed by a couple shouts. When she was growing up the conventional wisdom was not to charge around in instances, but it seems to work OK for her (obviously there are occasions to pull with a bow or let someone else politely pull).
Has anyone else tried a similar Flurry build with Sweeping Strikes?
Warriors For The Rest Of Us - Crusader - 05-28-2005
Yes, although I must admit this was in beta and things have radically changed.
Most warriors these days either go for mortal strike (still) or make a defensive warrior. A fury build with flurry is usually a dual wielder (to better get a chance for a critical hit to enter a flurry). If you ever see a warrior with 2 fast daggers, this is why.
Back in beta Flurry was quite overpowered of sorts. it was available quite fast in the fury tree and lasted longer (iirc). That's why they moved it down the tree and toned it down. However, now you get tricks like the 50% chance of crit on overpower and such, so Flurry builds are still quite good. Although I wouldn't recommend a 2h weapon with it. Which brings us to the biggest objection from the general public against dual wield; the high miss chance. Flurry builds can give massive damage output, but can come to a grinding, painfull halt when you get a few misses in a row.
I must say I liked my flurry warrior back in beta, it's simply quite fun to go on a chopping mayhem.
Warriors For The Rest Of Us - Tal - 05-28-2005
Crusader,May 28 2005, 05:12 AM Wrote:Which brings us to the biggest objection from the general public against dual wield; the high miss chance. Flurry builds can give massive damage output, but can come to a grinding, painfull halt when you get a few misses in a row.
I must say I liked my flurry warrior back in beta, it's simply quite fun to go on a chopping mayhem.
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Thats the beauty of dual wield though - the off hands chance to miss tends to trigger a lot of dodges which in conjunction with improved overpower can really tear up an opponent. :)
Warriors For The Rest Of Us - Crusader - 05-28-2005
Tal,May 28 2005, 12:55 PM Wrote:Thats the beauty of dual wield though - the off hands chance to miss tends to trigger a lot of dodges which in conjunction with improved overpower can really tear up an opponent. :)
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I wasn't aware miss chance was connected in any way to dodge chance?
Warriors For The Rest Of Us - Artega - 05-28-2005
Dual wielding is fine for PvE. Your targets stay still, allowing you to just sit there and beat the living crap out of them.
Dual wielding is completely, totally inefficient for PvP. If you go Fury for PvP, you need to get a two-handed weapon, even if it's a fast one.
A dual wielding Warrior is like a rogue without eviscerate, and simply will not fly in PvP. Leave dual wielding to the rogues.
Warriors For The Rest Of Us - LavCat - 05-29-2005
Artega,May 28 2005, 01:44 PM Wrote:Dual wielding is fine for PvE. Your targets stay still, allowing you to just sit there and beat the living crap out of them.
Dual wielding is completely, totally inefficient for PvP. If you go Fury for PvP, you need to get a two-handed weapon, even if it's a fast one.
A dual wielding Warrior is like a rogue without eviscerate, and simply will not fly in PvP. Leave dual wielding to the rogues.
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I have never given dual wield a proper try, having become too fond of shield bash. Should I be so fortunate as to find a second Hanzo, I will experiment.
Fafner is well versed in weapons (except staves) and has a selection of two-handed. They just don't look right. Most two-handed axes are ugly. Of all the two-handed weapons maces look best, in my opinion, but even these are not as atractive as most one-handed equipment.
Any suggestions for a fast, pretty two-handed axe to look for?
Warriors For The Rest Of Us - Artega - 05-30-2005
If you're Fury, weapon type doesn't matter; just use what has the best balance between overall DPS and damage. Hell, use a staff if it's the best weapon you can find - just expect to get some weird looks.
As far as best weapons for Fury, two-handed swords generally possess the best balance between DPS and damage, so I'd start looking there.
Warriors For The Rest Of Us - Artega - 05-30-2005
Tal,May 28 2005, 08:55 AM Wrote:Thats the beauty of dual wield though - the off hands chance to miss tends to trigger a lot of dodges which in conjunction with improved overpower can really tear up an opponent. :)
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It'll generally even out.
You'll Overpower more with a dual-wielding setup (usually), but you'll also Overpower for far less, including Deep Wounds and/or Flurry. Using a high-damage main hand (Phantom Blade comes to mind for up until end-game instances like Stratholme and Scholomance) will help, but you'll still basically do about the same amount of damage as a cookiecutter build will do as far as Overpower is concerned (assuming you also have Impale, since the cookiecutter invariably will.)
Warriors For The Rest Of Us - Taeme - 05-30-2005
Why do people on the lounge post in third person?
Crusader,May 28 2005, 10:17 AM Wrote:I wasn't aware miss chance was connected in any way to dodge chance?
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It doesn't.
Fury and Arms are better and/or worse at different stages of the game, depending on which weapons are available and so forth. I honestly would want to be MS around Uldaman, since if I recall correctly there's something like a 3.90 speed sword available - That's brutal. Other points, flurry can be nicer. Flurry is generally better for tanking in the early game; flurry generates more rage and damage without using up rage, which is invaluable.
Please read improved cleave. I don't know if you're making a joke or what, but please, read it. It's very bad. Also take Deathwish, especially post patch it's invaluable. It reduces your armor by 20% which isn't an increase of 20% taken, more like 5%. For ten rage that's a deal, especially if you're fighting mobs that fear.
I think flurry could be as good or better in the end game, but honestly, you require a lot of crit and tohit gear, whereas all a MS warrior needs to bring the pain is an Obsidian Edged Blade. And those drop like candy in MC.
Warriors For The Rest Of Us - Treesh - 05-30-2005
Taeme,May 29 2005, 10:38 PM Wrote:Why do people on the lounge post in third person?Because a lot of us have more than one character and the characters, while still being a part of us, are not actually us so we use the character name rather than "I" or "me" very frequently. It also helps other people to know just which one of the many we are discussing better. Some of us can't just say "my warrior" because we have more than one with different builds.
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Warriors For The Rest Of Us - Artega - 05-30-2005
It's pretty simple.
Arms is for 1v1 combat. Very high burst damage, low sustained damage.
Fury is for group combat. Low burst damage, high sustained damage.
Protection is for PvE combat and combat control in PvP. Low burst damage, low sustained damage, high durability, obscene disruption potential.
Warriors For The Rest Of Us - Taeme - 05-30-2005
Artega,May 30 2005, 03:35 PM Wrote:It's pretty simple.Hardly. The only real design behind the different trees is that Arms is for using a two hander at points, Fury has stuff for dual wielding and Protection has a couple things to do with a shield. All of them have talents that raise your overall DPS and Fury surely has some stuff for bursting, like Deathwish and Bloodthirst.
Arms is for 1v1 combat. Very high burst damage, low sustained damage.
Fury is for group combat. Low burst damage, high sustained damage.
Protection is for PvE combat and combat control in PvP. Low burst damage, low sustained damage, high durability, obscene disruption potential.
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The trees are pretty much a mishmash of ideas, when it comes to warriors.
Warriors For The Rest Of Us - Artega - 05-31-2005
Bloodthirst is a type of passive burst DPS, but it's nowhere near as strong as Mortal Strike.
Death Wish is a passive increase to your overall DPS, making it a sustained-DPS increase, not a burst-DPS increase.
Oddly enough, Deep Wounds is a sustained-DPS increase, yet it's found in the Arms line. Go figure.
Improved Shield Bash is a disruption effect. Smack a caster with it, and they're completely shut down for three seconds. That's pretty disrupting :)