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WoW Reloaded - Hedon - 08-27-2005
"Do you feel exhausted? Do the words Strat, Scholo and UBRS in pink give you cold shivers on your back?"
These were the words of a fellow priest I read several weeks ago on the WoW Boards; and yeah I felt that way. Suffering from "Priest Burnout Syndrom" as well as from RL work overload I cancelled my WoW Account two months ago, as I just couldn't bring my self to log on anymore.
I had joined a professional raid guild at this time and done literally countless runs on Scholo, Strat, DM and UBRS, as well as several attempts on MC ( http://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5990 ) and even an almost sucessful try on Onyxia. Ironically it was this Onyxia raid that convinced me the that i needed a WoW break badly. After all these weeks of doing the Quest series for the Onyxia Key with the guild, we finally stood before the dragon lady and I felt literally nothing. Just another healing job to do: watching health bars, managing my mana budget, keep myself out of harms way. Same procedure as every raid. All I was thinking was: "Can we please get this one done. I need some sleep."
Two months later the thought the thought of Scholo, Strat and UBRS still give me cold shivers, but I reactivated my WoW Account anyway, if anything then to just stroll the beautiful world and chat up with my guildmates B)
Riding and flying over the "World" of Warcraft and chatting with my guildmates on voice chat, I thought about several things regarding the of game design in WoW and how it affects my playing style. My guildmates brought me of course up to date concerning the status of our guild as well as on life on our server in general:
First our guild had made quite a progress in MC (only Ragnaros remains to be slain) and has Onyxia on farm status now. This great news; at the time i quitted WoW I was rather pessimistic about our ability on sucessfully handling MC.
Second many members just log on for raid events, and stay away the rest of the time. This isn't good news at all and quite symptomatic for the state of things in WoW in general imho.
Third the server community falls into two camps. The PvE crowd inhabitating MC, BWL and Onyxias Lair on one side, and the PvP aficionados camping the BGs. The world itself is almost void of any 60s, inhabitated by twinks only. Another symptom of how things are in WoW now.
Before I continue with my little rant, camouflaged as analysis, let me get one thing straight: I do not mind raid content at all. In fact I enjoy it a great time now and then. I also enjoy BGs, at least Warsong Gulch. I wouldn't have rolled a priest if would hate instancing. This post is not about whats wrong about Raid and PvP content but more about what is lacking in the other aspects of the game.
Nostalgia flash, back to European Final Beta:
I fell in love with this game by the love of detail applied to the design of zones like tirisfal glade, the ironic bent on all the fantasy clichés, the thrill I experienced in my first instance Shadowfang Keep and the irresistible urge to collect new cool items.
Looking back now, I realize the instance and item aspect have been pushed ad absurdum , while the world development itself has been almost completely neglected by the developers.
Having logged on last night I marveled once again on the beauty WoW has to offer and cursed the devs for the ghettoization they have in mind for capped chars. All the good items beyond blue drop in raid instances or as battlegrounds rewards. There is no reason for 60s to walk the world of warcraft, as char progression outside of dungeons and BGs is not possible. It is quite ironic that once you have mastered the game in terms of experience progression you are being de facto jailed by the developers in some dungeon oder gladiator arena. The beautiful world out there is not for you to walk, please keep out of sight in of our instances ;)
That many players that simply do not have the time ressources to subscribe to raid events (we live in a 24/7 society and quite a few people have to work at night, even on weekends) or to put up with the insanly time requirements for achieving a high rank in PvP, are being excluded from the end game completely is one thing, the other is the fact of designing a great world just to lay it to waste once you have quested through the zones.
What could be done to alleviate the situation:
1.) Give us new zones instead of only new instances (dungeons or BGs). These zones should have quests that yield valuable rewards, beyond blue. No, I don't think they should be equal to what you can earn from MC , Onyxia or BWL, but they should allow char progression outside of raid content. Make these new zones with all the love to the detail you spent on zones like e.g. Tirisfal. This means fill them with little stories, interesting NPCs, new architecture etc.
2.) Revive existing zones
a.) some of the existing zones, especially in Kalimdor could need some love
b.) make zones dynamic, things like the elemental invasion are a step in the right direction. One could also think of random spawns of rare materials, mobs that have to be found and drop really good items, small alliance and horde encampments popping up in enemy territory, spreading of the scrouge etc.
3.) Implement a meanigful crafting system ffs:
This is one of things that really gets me mad about WoW. The devs intentionally implemented a crappy crafting system, so that crafted goods from players doesn't compete with their percious drops. This has been stated repeatedly by officals in the WoW forums (the wording was something like this: crafted items serve as temporary replacement for outdated equipment until players find an appropriate drop). That a good crafting system is vital factor in making a good community (as selling and buying fosters social relations and players can become renowned for their crafting abilities, as well as keeps the economy alive, must be something the WoW devs decided to ignore in their analysis of existing MMORPGs. Really when do you have bought something at the AH for your instance gear equipped 60 char the last time? The auctioneers should have script that says "Move along folks. Nothing to see here..."
Well anyway, my account will remain subscribed for the time, if anything then just for the good times I had in WoW and for the hope that the devs will take a break from desining just new uber dungeons and BGs, and eventually will focus once again on what I loved about the "World" of Warcraft. ;)
WoW Reloaded - Raven Vale - 08-27-2005
I would love to see a place for lvl 60's outside instancing , I may have 2 lvl 60's now and have been lvl 60 for a few months , but I can honestly say , my first lvl 60 entered his first instance in his lvl 40's , Zul Farak and between them I have been in high lvl instances around 6 times , now I just make alts / spread myself over different servers , I love the game and a handful of people I have met were worth meeting , but I cannot run instances everyday or even a weekend I get busy , what with 4 children etc , and dont even get me started on MC I have not now or probably ever will have 6 straight hours to ever do this , which is disheartening .
I am seeing people I met when they were low teens when I was lvl 60 now have better gear than me grr , but that probably wont change so I just get on with running around and maybe finding a drop I can pass on . I have my Epic horse and am slowly grinding for my other chars , it just means I get around a bit faster but in the great scheme of things whats a little bit faster ? Yeah I wish I could do something useful at 60 outside of an instance but I seriously doubt that will happen , I have come to realise it is all instances and PvP no matter what server you are on .
WoW Reloaded - nobbie - 08-27-2005
Amen to your comments, Hedon :) I too got quickly bored with my Undead Warrior shortly after level 60 was reached. Instances (Strat, Scholo, BRS, MC, Onyxia) and PvP (which I don't like and which I find rather pointless with its imbalances in WoW) are all what was left. Like you, I bought and play WoW for the nice, detailed designs and atmosphere (if you have access to it, check out the 1-hour "Making Of" DVD of the WoW CE to see how much love and passion the developers have put into this world). Consequently, I have started 4 additional characters when my Undead Warrior has reached level 60 (see my profile info under the forum icon to the left). These new characters brought the fun back for me, without having exceptionally powerful (purple) items or "turbo speed" elite mounts. There are so much new things and variations to discover in the game, you just have to leave the endless mainstream of getting more and more and more power and items.
PS: My level 60 Undead Warrior (Mining 300/Armorsmith 300) is now a Thorium and Arcane Crystal farmer and the backbone of my "wealth" in WoW. I've now dumped the idea of making the three "Enchanted Thorium Platemail" armor pieces for him after discovering that it would take an immense amount of time to get the essences, dusts and gems (in addition to the 26 Arcane Crystals/Bars), and that the materials alone would easily sell for 900-1000 gold in the auction house. That's the gold sum for one elite mount, which isn't affected by inflation at all. Add to that the fact that in patch 1.7 the Defense skill bonuses - the prominent stat on these three items - will be nerfed by 33%, and you know that you throw your time and gold right out of the window ;)
WoW Reloaded - Kevin - 08-27-2005
You know I read this and think that you want them to do with WoW what Horizons tried and failed to do. I would love to see it as well but it's difficult and time consuming to do unfortunately.
I've done a fair bit of high end raiding and I do enjoy it, but because of my playstyle I'm going to be broke because of it. :)
I however love the 5 man instances though they all start to become trivialized by gear and repitition. I'm fortunate to play with people that will pretend they have never been to a place before for me though so I can still get that thrill and I've been able to do the same for new players, though at times I fail and start spewing the formulas for success. :(
I do want to see a more dynamic growing world with reason to be in it. I do want a real crafting system. The game is still a shopping list much like D2 became and items really become more important than anything else in the game. Look at warriors a class I know well. I don't think your spec matters at all in MC for Luci, Magmadar, Ghennas, or Garr (the only MC bosses I've faced) or for Onyxia for that matter. But your gear certainly does. And the auction house can make it so that a 60 can start a new char and be able to solo instances where you just one or two levels higher than the biggest mob in there if you want to put the time in because of the gear.
The reality is that Blizzard made a game where they wanted everyone to PvP and spend time getting items in which other choices you make don't really affect you that much. This isn't a bad thing. It means that given time anyone can succeed because money isn't that scarce and choices about skills (for PvE) aren't that important because they can all be made up for by gear. When you reach 60 you either keep spending time going after gear or you PvP and cookie cutter your spec, which won't really hurt you much if you want to PvE because again the gear is more important than the spec. But this is enough to keep people paying and that is all that really matters.
I'm glad I went slow and made a lot of alts on the way. I'm glad I'm in Molten Core and sharing that experience with friends, but I'll be happy when I set the game down because I was able to prolong the exploration and small group experiences for a long time. I love that playing a mage in a group is so very different from a warrior or paladin or druid or any other class. Actually every class, even filling the same role in a group as another class, plays differently for me and that keeps things fun and fresh. I've been the only healer in an instance with a shaman, druid, paladin, and priest. Every one of them was a different experience even though I was just watching health bars or whatever. I've been main tank in instances with a hunter, druid, paladin and warrior (not with my shaman yet) and again all of them played differently. I've been DPS with hunters, rogues, warriors, paladins, druids, mages, and warlocks, it was not the same thing. I've also been a utility man will all those classes.
The game is really holding me with the social aspect now, though when I was suffering my worst with my condition I admit that I burrowed into a progress this character for the sake of progression mode. I really enjoying interacting with the people in the world that I know. I wish my condition allowed me to more freely do this but oh well. It was tough to have Treesh on teamspeak last night since we are in the same room but it worked out.
But yeah through all this rambling, I wish that WoW could be something more. I wish that some of the ideas I've seen in other games could be presented in this world and setting but they won't be. So I've tried to embrace the other good things about the game and just keep having fun with it. The ability to have 50 alts (so many other MMO's limit you to 5 or so characters) the ability to play on both sides of the "conflict", the ability to succeed in so many places with so many group compositions and character set-ups. But most of all the ability to have a fun way to interact with people that I like to interact with. Many of these people I think it would be a real blast to go on a float trip with or work with or just hang out and watch TV with as well. WoW is just another way to hang out with these folks and do something we all enjoy.
WoW Reloaded - Tris - 08-28-2005
Come over to stormrage :)
Better yet play a Pally... experience the buffbot / secondary healbot phenomenon :P
I came... I saw... I didn't attack
WoW Reloaded - Thawwing Light - 08-28-2005
Hedon,Aug 27 2005, 03:27 AM Wrote:2.) Revive existing zones
a.) some of the existing zones, especially in Kalimdor could need some love
b.) make zones dynamic, things like the elemental invasion are a step in the right direction. One could also think of random spawns of rare materials, mobs that have to be found and drop really good items, small alliance and horde encampments popping up in enemy territory, spreading of the scrouge etc.
3.) Implement a meanigful crafting system ffs:
This is one of things that really gets me mad about WoW. The devs intentionally implemented a crappy crafting system, so that crafted goods from players doesn't compete with their percious drops. This has been stated repeatedly by officals in the WoW forums (the wording was something like this: crafted items serve as temporary replacement for outdated equipment until players find an appropriate drop). That a good crafting system is vital factor in making a good community (as selling and buying fosters social relations and players can become renowned for their crafting abilities, as well as keeps the economy alive, must be something the WoW devs decided to ignore in their analysis of existing MMORPGs. Really when do you have bought something at the AH for your instance gear equipped 60 char the last time? The auctioneers should have script that says "Move along folks. Nothing to see here..."
Hmmm. This part of your post really struck a chord with me, as I agree this needs to be done.
2a) I would really like for this to be done. It just needs to be done in a way that isn't harmful to lower level players. Perhaps large, dangerous, but non-agressive mobs are the way to go?
B) This is something I actually have seen implemented, albiet very, IMHO, poorly.
Rant/Dissertation follows:
Final Fantasy 11, henceforth FFXI, had rare spawns that dropped some of the best gear in the game. These monsters, called Notorious (or Named) Monsters (NMs) were scattered throughout the game's world, which made exploring its beauty really worthwhile, as they dropped significant items, were everywhere, and many of these items could be acchieved at low levels, but were useful to high levels.
Where it all went wrong: The developers missed a key item quality here: Bind on Pickup, or 'Exclusive' in FFXI terms. Most NM stuff didn't bind, and therefore NMs were camped by gold farmers or people desperate for cash. And by camped, I mean 24/7. Some friends of mine once camped one monster for almost 3 days, trying to get his drops. The 3 of them worked in shifts to pull it off. It was all about getting the tap on the monster first... and it got nuts when professional Gil (Gold) farmers got in.
... that said, I wouldn't mind something like this in WoW. Only, the monsters' drops should be (1) more guarranteed (some NMs dropped gear about 5% of the time), (2) BoP, and (3) Only killable by a level 60, either party or not. Sorta like World Bosses, on a smaller scale...
Speaking of World Bosses, more of those would be nice, and the existing ones should be made more useful. I checked out Lord Lakmaeron because I'd read Mongo's tale, but I have never heard of anyone killing him, because hey, "He doesn't drop loot".
Rant over
Finally 3)
I can't say anything more about this. As it stands, crafting is complete crap. Who uses crafted gear even over level 60 gear from Strat/Scholo/UBRS/LBRS. Crafted gear should at least compete with this. As an Armorsmith that's still wondering why the hell he took this disease that made him poor, /signed.