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+--- Thread: Major change to weapon speed mechanics (/thread-5627.html)
Major change to weapon speed mechanics - vor_lord - 09-22-2005
Stop buying those Arcanite Reaper mats now! Something other than Barman shanker actually useful for dagger rogues! Dogs and cats living together!
Upcoming Instant Melee Attack Change
Notable things left off this list of skills affected:
Seal of Command
Windfury
Reckoning
Riposte
and I'm sure there are plenty of others...
Major change to weapon speed mechanics - Quark - 09-22-2005
You have no idea how happy it makes me to hear this :D
Please note that with two weapons of the same DPS, you'll still want the slower weapon due to it natively having a better damage range. Only the attack bonus part is getting changed.
This means, for Rogues, the weapon traits you look for change from:
Speed (slow) > Damage Range > DPS
To:
Damage Range > DPS > Speed (fast)
Before people think this change has too many negative side effects, just look at how the dagger ranks change.
With the new Zul'Gurub dagger, Fang of the Faceless, and enough attack power you could have outranked Perdition's Blade from Ragnaros.
Now Perdition's will be superior no matter your attack power (though you lose the passive benefits).
Biggest negative change - it makes it that much harder to have 'caster' weapons. Before, the easiest way to ensure a caster got a weapon was to give it a fast speed. Kept Rogues and Warriors away in droves. Now it's not so simple.
Major change to weapon speed mechanics - Artega - 09-22-2005
Lucky for me, this doesn't change a thing. I always went for the highest damage-range on my weapons, regardless of weapon speed. I'd use a 100-200 2.50 weapon over an 80-180 3.80 weapon.
Major change to weapon speed mechanics - TheDragoon - 09-22-2005
Artega,Sep 21 2005, 08:10 PM Wrote:Lucky for me, this doesn't change a thing. I always went for the highest damage-range on my weapons, regardless of weapon speed. I'd use a 100-200 2.50 weapon over an 80-180 3.80 weapon.I just ran some numbers to test it out and, in the new patch, the difference between a 2.8 speed, 54 DPS two-hander and a 3.8 speed, 54 DPS two-hander looks to be about 4 total, output DPS for a warrior who mortal strikes about as much as mine does. That's pretty trivial when your DPS from standard attacks and mortal strikes is in the 150ish range (all of my calculations were done assuming no damage reduction or critical strikes or anything of that sort to keep them simple).
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Overall, it looks like the damage gap between fast weapons and slow weapons got roughly halved by this change (bringing the high damage, slow weapons down a bit and the low damage, fast weapons up a bit). This seems like a useful change that will make itemization a bit more varied as people can finally put all those arcanite reavers down in favor of more fun weapons without sacrificing much (if any) effectiveness. :)
Major change to weapon speed mechanics - lemekim - 09-22-2005
It's a nerf in disguise. If you look at all high-end weapons (BWL, MC, Rank 14), they all have at least 3.4 speed, so giving the AP bonus a multiplier of 3.3 will lower their damage.
Major change to weapon speed mechanics - TheDragoon - 09-22-2005
lemekim,Sep 21 2005, 10:47 PM Wrote:It's a nerf in disguise. If you look at all high-end weapons (BWL, MC, Rank 14), they all have at least 3.4 speed, so giving the AP bonus a multiplier of 3.3 will lower their damage.Indeed, for people looking to min/max their characters it is, indeed, a nerf. However it is a nerf that make a lot of sense and will help with many of the itemization woes of the game. :)
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EDIT: However, the nerf really isn't all that bad, honestly. It's pretty minor a nerf for the slow weapons in order to bring everything closer to balance.
Major change to weapon speed mechanics - Skandranon - 09-22-2005
lemekim,Sep 22 2005, 12:47 AM Wrote:It's a nerf in disguise. If you look at all high-end weapons (BWL, MC, Rank 14), they all have at least 3.4 speed, so giving the AP bonus a multiplier of 3.3 will lower their damage.
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At least one BWL item is 3.2 speed, and Typhoon from Azuregos is 2.9 speed. Also, Blizzard is concerned about Blade of Hanna and Brain Hacker being nearly worthless compared to similar level greens just because they're so damn fast. Slightly nerfs some top end stuff to hugely buff a number of other items. I think, on balance, there are going to be quite a lot of people pleased with the change.
Major change to weapon speed mechanics - NotSoDarklord - 09-22-2005
I'll be happy. I've been trying to sell a brainhacker for the longest t ime and it's like pulling teeth
Major change to weapon speed mechanics - Quark - 09-22-2005
Might be nice to start a list for people - items most impacted. Note that this is my opinion for the cutoff, and I don't deem 1.8 daggers to be "most" impacted by a 1.7/1.8 difference. I'm just gonna do 1Hs for now
Negatively:
Daggers -
Rank 14 Dagger
Barman Shanker
Fang of the Faceless
Swords -
Rank 14 Sword
Teebu's Blazing Longsword (which no one has anyway :P)
Sword of Zeal
Dal'Rends Sacred Charge
Krol Blade
WSG Reward Sword
Ebon Hilt of Marduk
Assassination Blade
Bloodrazor
Maces -
Rank 14 Mace
Empryean Demolisher
Aurastone Hammer (good, it doesn't belong to meleers!)
AV Mace
Mass of McGowan
Axes -
Rank 14 Axe
AV Reward Axe
Axe of the Deep Woods
Demonfork
Rivenspike
Notice a trend here? Blizzard got shoehorned in their PvP rewards because of the stupidity of the old system. Maybe now Blizzard will diversify the PvP rewards with different (faster) speeds.
Positively:
Daggers -
Fang of the Mystics (whoops)
Alcor's Sunrazor
Sorcerous Dagger (whoops)
Scarlet Kris
Gift of the Elven Magi (whoops)
Darrowspike
Finkle's Skinner
Fang of Venoxis (whoops)
Bonescraper
Blade of the New Moon (whoops)
Frightalon
Shadowblade
Dire Nail of ....
Julie's Dagger
Swords -
Quel'Serrar
Blackguard
Warblade of the Hakkari
Bloodlord's Defender
Bloodcaller (whoops)
Mindcarver (whoops)
Silent Fang
Mirah's Song
Blazing Rapier
Maces -
Hand of Edward the Odd (whoops)
Masterwork Stormhammer
Bludstone Hammer
The Cruel Hand of Timmy *ahem, Darian*
Venomspitter
Serenity
Hammer of Expertise
Rubidian Hammer
Axes -
Ancient Hakkari Manslayer
Iceblade Hacker
Annihilator
Bone Slicing Hatchet
Serathil
Hedgecutter
Soulbreaker
Dawn's Edge
Flurry Axe
You see that? All those "whoops"? Blizzard was saying "caster item" by giving it a faster speed. Now they'll have to be even faster after this change to effectively stay out of the hands of meleers.
Also, note that though these are the items nerfed/buffed the most, the weapons that truly shine now are the ones with the highest DPS, but were just faster than other (lower DPS) weapons. The AV blue daggers are now the best blues in the game, and Heartseeker is now 2nd.
On other observation, from the 2H realm - Shadowstrike/Thunderstrike just got a huge boost in relative rankings of weapons, as did Blackfury.
Major change to weapon speed mechanics - Zarathustra - 09-22-2005
Quark, I don't think the "whoops" areas are as bad as you might think. The Sorcerous Blade is a prime example in that whoever is running a MC trip would know better than to let a rogue roll on it over a spellcaster.
Others, like the Hand of Edward the Odd, just went from being a good Paladin/Shaman weapon to "amazing" status. I'm interested to see what happens with those.
Major change to weapon speed mechanics - mjdoom - 09-22-2005
Man, this is great. I'm not always good with understanding trickle down effects of changes like these but being a fury warrior I think this has nothing but benefit for me. Now having a fast MH (I currently use Eskhandar's Right Claw) doesn't "hurt" me as much for overpower (poor hunters and rogues) and whirlwind. I never bothered to set up weapon switches for those (and since 1.7 that was no longer a good option anyway) but now it won't even matter as much. Whee...
Major change to weapon speed mechanics - Lissa - 09-22-2005
NotSoDarklord,Sep 22 2005, 07:07 AM Wrote:I'll be happy. I've been trying to sell a brainhacker for the longest t ime and it's like pulling teeth
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You could give it to Lizzyborden as a gift... :whistling:
Major change to weapon speed mechanics - Boutros - 09-23-2005
Quark,Sep 22 2005, 05:11 AM Wrote:On other observation, from the 2H realm - Shadowstrike/Thunderstrike just got a huge boost in relative rankings of weapons, as did Blackfury.
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Shadowstrike is still awful. Doomsaw still hits harder than Shadowstrike.