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Solo Hunter woes - Squeamish - 10-01-2005
So I'm trying to solo a low-level hunter right now... he's lvl 14 and is questing in Loch Modan right now.
The problem is, his gun far outstrips the damage his pet does ... I'm in the unenviable situation where I'll send in my pet to tank for me (bear with +2 to the increased health skill) but the monster ends up running up to whack me instead.
Here's a short transcript of my battles:
"Go Olaf! I'll stay here!"
<bear runs off>
<Bang! <Concussive shot)>
<Bear swipes spider>
<Spider ignores bear>
Me: "growl, dammit growl! yes!"
*bang* 28 damage.
"Growl, dammit , gr- OH MY GOD HE'S ON ME! HE'S ON ME! IT'S HORRIBLE!!"
I grouped with a warrior for another quest, and WOW what a difference it makes to have a main tank keeping all the monsters' attention away from the hunter.
So what do you guys suggest? Trade in Olaf for a wolf or a cat? Or should I try to go for a hard-hitting pet like a raptor or dinosaur?
Solo Hunter woes - Raven Vale - 10-01-2005
Reading the transcript , poor Olaf does'nt hit the target before you shoot it , let Olaf get some agro for a couple of seconds before you fire , also bears are very slow so if he misses a couple times while you are filling the target full of lead you are going to get that agro , everybody and his aunt has a cat , but I would suggest trying one out , they hit a lot faster so grab a lot of attention quickly . I have 3 hunters on different realms and always go for the fast hitting in my early years and have had no problem with the pet getting growl off . You may even find with the cat you can shoot first then it runs up and takes agro , keep "growl" up to date and you should have no problems .
Solo Hunter woes - Mirajj - 10-01-2005
Yep. You need to let your pet get to and hit the target first, before you start. I usually use the time they are running up to the mob to cast Hunter's Mark on stuff. By the time they get there, my cooldowns have cleared, and I wait to see the little growl go off. Once I see that, I open up slowly with Arcane Shot, a couple of autoshots, Serpent Sting, a few autoshots, AS, repeat till monster is dead.
As a hunter, you do a lot of damage, so don't be afraid to ease off the specials until you get a feel for what your pet can and can't hold against you. But...you do need to give the pet a chance to start holding against you before opening up.
Solo Hunter woes - Alrin - 10-01-2005
On my 20ish hunter I always open up with a serpent sting as a greeting to the mob I'm fighting, as the shot goes off my pet is halfway to the target and has a growl/hit off to grab it. If it fails (I'd love a mod that pops "Growl RESISTED!" on the screen) I simply hit conc. shot and try and kite long enough for the pet to growl again.
If that fails, I charge in, slam him/her with wingclip and bolt of in another direction and spin/conc shot again if its up.
YMMV though, but there are several ways you can work on your pet aggro :)
It all comes down to just going with what feels most natural to you.
Oh and dwarven hunters with guns + jumpshot = fun times.
Solo Hunter woes - Kevin - 10-01-2005
Mirajj,Oct 1 2005, 07:11 AM Wrote:Yep. You need to let your pet get to and hit the target first, before you start. I usually use the time they are running up to the mob to cast Hunter's Mark on stuff. By the time they get there, my cooldowns have cleared, and I wait to see the little growl go off. Once I see that, I open up slowly with Arcane Shot, a couple of autoshots, Serpent Sting, a few autoshots, AS, repeat till monster is dead.
As a hunter, you do a lot of damage, so don't be afraid to ease off the specials until you get a feel for what your pet can and can't hold against you. But...you do need to give the pet a chance to start holding against you before opening up.
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OK well this has never been the case with me and a cat pet that has faster than a 1.5 attack speed and my beast master build. I'll often open with conc shot and fire a sting while the pet is closing in. She'll growl then bite and get the mob back in most cases, I'll manually hit claw to give her an extra little bit of damage too (claw also generates more threat than just the damage). I actually pull stuff and then time sending her in so that the mob gets tanked where I want it to be tanked. Make sure you have the highest rank of bite and growl that you can have. Of course I also let the the pet autodash and kept a fast approach speed pet (though with the speed normalizations this isn't as big a deal) so that I don't get as many autoshoots in before she gets there either. And again being beast master means that damage gap with me and the pet is smaller.
With a bear I do have to wait because a miss with a 2.0 attack speed pet is much worse than with a 1.2 attack speed pet, bears will also not attack as much if the mob is moving towards me because they simply don't run as fast as a cat so they will get that close distance nope it moved to far before I can swing affect. The cat (and many of the wolves) don't seem to do this they will keep hitting the mob in the back. So when I play with slower approach speed pets and slower attack speed pets I will wait for them to get a hit in or I'll conc shot then turn off my attack so that I can still get the mob seperated out some to avoid runner issues and such. And watch how you use claw if you use it at all. I like it because a pet with focus at the end of the fight means I didn't do as much damage as I could. So I'll turn it on and off as need be, especially with the new focus regen talent claw can really help a pet hold aggro because growl and bit will not use up the bar even if the pet is holding a couple of mobs against your stings and multishots.
I think I need to do about 1200 damage before my cat will have problems getting the mob back right awwy when it gets in range of it (assuming the cat has focus) this is at L54 for the pet and L55 for me. So unless I crit my opening attacks I can pretty much do what I want to while the pet is running in to get the mob.
Solo Hunter woes - Ruvanal - 10-01-2005
I found early on that there was a world of difference in the pet grabbing the aggro depending on if I lead the pull with a Concussion Shot versus any other type of shot. What appears to me to be happening in the other cases is that without the slowing effect of the Concussion Shot the pet would move to where the mob was at in its closing with me, then stop and start its attack. Unfortunately though this usually meant that the mob was still closing and ended up moving out of range of the attack (or Growl) before it actually executed; making this appear as though the pet missed or had a resisted Growl (energy expended without effect). By leading with the Concussion Shot, the mob is moving slow enough at the point of interception that it is still in range of the attack when it goes off and allows the pet to snag the aggro even if it was a new pet that had no trained skills on it including Growl.
The problem of the pet holding the aggro after that point was a matter of it having enough skills that are up to date compared to where my skills and equipment are at at that point in the game. There was often a rough period when I had just picked up an up to date weapon and had just leveled while the pet was still one or two levels from being able to get its next ranks of special attacks or Growl. At those time it was the most accute for needing to do things to regulate the sustained damage output or the shots would unintentionally pull aggro off the pet part into the fight. This situation got very bad for Taunshu and Orion at around level 50 that just running autoshot with no special attacks was starting to pull aggro off if I got as many as 2 crits in the first 6 shots. At that point the only practical way to lower my own DPS enough for a time was to stop using the ammo bags and quivers to boost my firing rate. This had the side benefit of allowing the space being freed from using up ammo to then be used to hold items picked up on that run. With the newer pet abilities and talents, I can likely go back to using those quivers and pouches now.
Solo Hunter woes - Mirajj - 10-02-2005
Gnollguy,Oct 1 2005, 09:28 AM Wrote:OK well this has never been the case with me and a cat pet that has faster than a 1.5 attack speed and my beast master build. I'll often open with conc shot and fire a sting while the pet is closing in. She'll growl then bite and get the mob back in most cases, I'll manually hit claw to give her an extra little bit of damage too (claw also generates more threat than just the damage). I actually pull stuff and then time sending her in so that the mob gets tanked where I want it to be tanked. Make sure you have the highest rank of bite and growl that you can have. Of course I also let the the pet autodash and kept a fast approach speed pet (though with the speed normalizations this isn't as big a deal) so that I don't get as many autoshoots in before she gets there either. And again being beast master means that damage gap with me and the pet is smaller.
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Build difference is showing, right there. ;) I'm Marks specced, and it shows in the damage out vs what my 1.3 atk spd cat can hold. Conc is a nice leadin with a DoT, as Conc itself does no damage, but slows the mob nicely, giving the pet time to work it over. I don't tend to use Conc unless it's as a "ranged wingclip" to shut down a runner.
Usually, I Dash my pet in, let her get off the growl and Bite, then I open up with Arcane Shot, hit Serpent Sting, and let autoshot do it's trick till Arcane has cooled down. Generally works pretty good unless I hit a big crit string. I usually only do one SS as well, as I've found that solo, the second will tend to generate too much aggro my way and pull off my pet.
Solo Hunter woes - Kevin - 10-02-2005
Mirajj,Oct 1 2005, 10:00 PM Wrote:Build difference is showing, right there. ;) I'm Marks specced, and it shows in the damage out vs what my 1.3 atk spd cat can hold. Conc is a nice leadin with a DoT, as Conc itself does no damage, but slows the mob nicely, giving the pet time to work it over. I don't tend to use Conc unless it's as a "ranged wingclip" to shut down a runner.
Usually, I Dash my pet in, let her get off the growl and Bite, then I open up with Arcane Shot, hit Serpent Sting, and let autoshot do it's trick till Arcane has cooled down. Generally works pretty good unless I hit a big crit string. I usually only do one SS as well, as I've found that solo, the second will tend to generate too much aggro my way and pull off my pet.
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Out of curiosity what are your crits on autoshoot getting up to? I know you have better gear and 5 levels on me but I'm still able to put out 450 to 500 crits on autoshot right now with a mark on the mob and aspect of the hawk and depending on the armor of course and I'm still working down the marks tree. Just curious what you're putting out.
Solo Hunter woes - Mirajj - 10-02-2005
Gnollguy,Oct 1 2005, 11:25 PM Wrote:Out of curiosity what are your crits on autoshoot getting up to? I know you have better gear and 5 levels on me but I'm still able to put out 450 to 500 crits on autoshot right now with a mark on the mob and aspect of the hawk and depending on the armor of course and I'm still working down the marks tree. Just curious what you're putting out.
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My autoshot crits, with Aspect of the Hawk, Trueshot Aura, and HM on the target are often in the 900-1000 range against whatever target I'm shooting at, as armor doesn't seem to affect it too much. Higher armor mobs mean crits around 900-950, softer targets get the other side.
If you are curious, my average autoshot damage is in the 300-400 range.
Solo Hunter woes - LavCat - 10-02-2005
Squeamish,Oct 1 2005, 03:54 AM Wrote:So I'm trying to solo a low-level hunter right now... he's lvl 14 and is questing in Loch Modan right now.
The problem is, his gun far outstrips the damage his pet does ... I'm in the unenviable situation where I'll send in my pet to tank for me (bear with +2 to the increased health skill) but the monster ends up running up to whack me instead.
Here's a short transcript of my battles:
...
So what do you guys suggest? Trade in Olaf for a wolf or a cat? Or should I try to go for a hard-hitting pet like a raptor or dinosaur?
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No one has yet mentioned Intimitation (five levels down in the beast talent tree), which creates additional pet threat and also gives a three second stun. Intimidation should not be required for Olaf to hold agro, but Intimidation is there for the times it is. Olaf would of course need to be a little older.
Make sure Cower is not enabled.
I would not open with a Concussive Shot, as it seems to make things angry. Slowing the target down at this point should not be necessary, but then Woad (now level 55) has never used a bear as pet (except for training). Her two main companions are Mist Howler and Broken Tooth. Both have Dash and a fast attack. If the target looks difficult Woad will let her pet attack first. If not she opens with a Serpent Sting. Woad has been tempted to train Ursala, the level 56 (as I recall) bear just outside of Everlook, to see what a really slow attack will do.
For a Beast Mastery build I would use a low damage gun or bow with a fast attack. I am not familiar with the gun choices but Woad uses Hurricane (1.60 speed), which Tribade found for her on Sorrorw Hill. I have no experience with other builds.
Woad's problem is that her damage in the log is a lot less than in the lying character screen. This is great for the pet holding agro, but not so great for killing monsters. Her DPS (without thorium arrows) is shown as over 130, but as I remember her actual hit is often around 125-128, not in the neighborhood of 200 as it is supposed to be. I should collect more data. She has +110 attack power from items, and I am not convinced this is adding as it should.
I also have no experience with increased health, increased armor, or any of the new pet skills. Broken Tooth has five skills and I really do not want to have to respec and give one up. Fire resistance sounds good to me, but I would love to see suggestions. I don't think though that any of these would have an effect on holding agro, other than that your pet will probably hold more agro while alive.
Edit: Duh -- the answer to my damage difference is most likely target armor.
But I will ask another question: does anyone have experience with the new Spirit Bond? Is it worth getting?
Solo Hunter woes - Kevin - 10-02-2005
Intimidation wasn't mentioned because the question was form a low level hunter. I do have intimidation and it rocks. I use it for the stun on runners I use it to get aggro back (and it will get aggro back from just about anything though the pet might lose it again).
The new spirit bond is worse than the old spirit bond by far. Every 10 seconds you get a tick of 2% of your health back and so does your pet. So yay, 50 to 80 health every 10 seconds for you and your pet. It's pointless. I'm respeccing out of it. It's kinda like you are eating the first food you find in the game all the time.
Solo Hunter woes - LavCat - 10-02-2005
Gnollguy,Oct 2 2005, 05:04 PM Wrote:Intimidation wasn't mentioned because the question was form a low level hunter. I do have intimidation and it rocks. I use it for the stun on runners I use it to get aggro back (and it will get aggro back from just about anything though the pet might lose it again).
The new spirit bond is worse than the old spirit bond by far. Every 10 seconds you get a tick of 2% of your health back and so does your pet. So yay, 50 to 80 health every 10 seconds for you and your pet. It's pointless. I'm respeccing out of it. It's kinda like you are eating the first food you find in the game all the time.
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The only reason I could think of was as a counter to a damage over time debuff. I have not seen the problem as a hunter, but at least twice Fafner, my warrior, has died from poison, locked in combat so she could not eat. Yes, she drank an antidote after her foe was dead but was repoisoned. This seems to happen with desynch. I have seen this with spiders in the Plaguelands as well as from Chimera in Winterspring.
But the healing from Spirit Bond may not be enough and I agree that the talent points could probably be better spent.
Solo Hunter woes - savaughn - 10-03-2005
Squeamish,Oct 1 2005, 12:54 AM Wrote:So I'm trying to solo a low-level hunter right now... he's lvl 14 and is questing in Loch Modan right now.Having played both extensively, let me assure you that bears hold aggro just as well as cats or wolves. If you're having trouble holding aggro check the following things:
So what do you guys suggest? Trade in Olaf for a wolf or a cat? Or should I try to go for a hard-hitting pet like a raptor or dinosaur?
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- You have trained bite to the appropriate level.
- You have the latest version of growl (not a likely problem at lvl 14).
- You start the fight with growl/bite on autocast.
- Your pet starts the fight with enough focus to cast both growl and bite.
- You do not have cower on autocast. In fact, you should not train cower to a pet at all anymore.
Bears can learn both bite and claw and without dash or a type skill, you should have both trained.
At lvl 14, I would expect a bear to have Bite 2, Claw 2, and Growl 2. A typical Dwarf hunter using a Rough Boomstick w/Crude Scope should never had aggro problems with such a bear.
Solo Hunter woes - Xame - 10-03-2005
Currently I also have a low level hunter. One thing I'm seeing is that Concussive shot is a high treat shot. Don't use it to open. Anything that stuns causes a very high amount of threat. Save it for a runner or in mid-battle, you only will really get one off anyways given the cool down.
Start with Arcane to be safe or a Sting if you want to push it a bit. The pets growl will put it on top of the hate list so you should be fine. If you get a big crit, you will figure what I mean, charge the mob and wingclip it.
Normal low level sequence: Send Pet, Hunter's Mark, Arcane, Auto, Sting, Auto ... Arcane...Auto etc. (the hunter's mark second is there just to slow me down so I don't become a mage :) ).
On two pulls: Send Pet, Ice trap, Hunter's Mark, see above ... (ignoring the ice trap one until you kill the first mob: remember focus fire!!). When the first one is dead, wingclip 2nd, let the pet regain agro by running toward the pet. Then Hunter's Mark and the above sequence (with maybe some heals for the pets).
Note, no Concussive shots except to stop runners at ~20% of target life.
As a hunter you should be able to continuously kill until you run out of mana for pet healing. Its just a matter of controlling agro (yours!!). Just think, "steady good dps" and you should be fine. Don't burst damage like a mage or rogue. Just keep it slow and steady and feed your pet until they are happy (a content pet is a useless pet). Sometimes I will even use the inital agro getting time to setup the next pull instead of taking a shot.
Your only limit should be your mana for pet heals (not your shots!). Slow and steady killing is faster killing then bad pulls (or unlucky early crits).
Solo Hunter woes - kandrathe - 10-03-2005
Make sure it is always well fed too.
Here is another way to think about this; You and the pet are a team so let the bear run in and take the initial punishment, while you plink away with just autoshoot. Once your good friend has sustained some pounding (60% health), open up and blaze away and if everything goes as planned you will kill it before you pull aggro off the bear. Or, in the case you do draw aggro as it runs toward you mortally wounded, you finish it off with your blade. Now your bear heals up real fast and you are ready for the next encounter.
Solo Hunter woes - Mirajj - 10-03-2005
kandrathe,Oct 3 2005, 02:42 PM Wrote:Make sure it is always well fed too.
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Has anyone other than me noticed that it's gotten much harder in the last couple of weeks to keep your pet "content"? I've been going through food nearly twice to three times as fast as I used to.
Solo Hunter woes - Ruvanal - 10-04-2005
Mirajj,Oct 3 2005, 04:21 PM Wrote:Has anyone other than me noticed that it's gotten much harder in the last couple of weeks to keep your pet "content"? I've been going through food nearly twice to three times as fast as I used to.
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I have noticed no real difference. I did notice a change in your play from what it was a few weeks ago though and it came at about the same time as the last patch. Prior to that, I did not see you sending your cat Mirage into combat as much when in group play before. One thing that some have not realised is that when a pet is doing their natural hit point recovery, they are at that time 'burning up' their happiness rating at a greater rate than when they are just sitting around. Active pets that are constantly in combat getting a beating and ending up using their natural healing to recover a lot tend to be much hungrier pets.
For my own case with Orion, it has actually been a little bit the other way with his needing to be fed a little bit reduced if anything. I had always used him very active in combats as much as was practical. But with the patch, I was able to spec him with the Natural Armor and that has greatly reduced the amount of damage that he is taking in many combats. From that is less time needed in many cases for natural healing in between fights.
Solo Hunter woes - LavCat - 10-04-2005
savaughn,Oct 3 2005, 11:29 AM Wrote:- You do not have cower on autocast. In fact, you should not train cower to a pet at all anymore.[right][snapback]90841[/snapback][/right]
I am not taking issue with the advice, but why should one not train Cower anymore? Are you thinking because of the new four pet skill limit or has cower itself in some way changed?
Solo Hunter woes - Epi - 10-04-2005
LavCat,Oct 3 2005, 05:50 PM Wrote:I am not taking issue with the advice, but why should one not train Cower anymore? Are you thinking because of the new four pet skill limit or has cower itself in some way changed?I believe, because of the training point cost, no?
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Solo Hunter woes - Ruvanal - 10-04-2005
Epi,Oct 3 2005, 09:43 PM Wrote:I believe, because of the training point cost, no?
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The points for cower are not that bad. The problem is that newly trained pets now are limited to 4 active skills that they can be trained in. In most cases there are going to be a better set of skills that use up all four active slots that do not include cower in the mix.
For example many hunters that are using a mix of skills that have Growl, Bite and/or Claw, Dash/Dive and one of the newest added skills like Prowl, Furious Howl, Scorpid Posion or Screech. An example would be a wolf that uses Growl, Bite, Dash and Furious Howl; which leaves no room for Cower as a fifth item in the list.