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I Don't Like This. - Doc - 10-05-2005

Scary

The implications here are unsettling to say the least. Yeah, the flu is scary, but the idea of power crazy Neo-Cons using the military as their own personal police force... Just bothers me. Bush is looking to get a law overturned that would allow for this to happen.

And on the flu note... YARGH! FLU BAD!

All I can think of is The Stand. Flu outbreak, the military taking over, people being silenced, death and more death.

I am prepared for all kinds of things. Zombies, invasion, seige, whatever. But flu? Hard to shoot a flu.

Edit.

More scary!

Would be kinda bad if the government "accidently" let loose a superbug from one of their germ kitchens like Plum Island.

Why is it we can have germ kitchens but we take away other countries' germ kitchens...

Meh. This is unsettling. I don't like this at all.

I Don't Like This. - kandrathe - 10-05-2005

I was listening to a discussion of this topic on my 1hr commute this morning. I think my view was summed up by one caller who said, "There is nothing in the current law that prevents the Federal government using the military equipment, personel and their logistics to rescue, shelter, feed and in general help people in need. What it does limit is their ability to act as a domestic police force, something that even in the wake of Katrina and Rita has no demonstrated need."

As for Flu in general; Due to the rapid nature of that virus, it will someday eventually mutate into a form that infects humans, and is spread rapidly by air, and is severe enough to cause many deaths. In the past Flu pandemics, the majority of the victims were very young, already ill, or very old. Like a hurricane, we can't stop it, so we just have to be ready for the next one.

I Don't Like This. - Minionman - 10-05-2005

That of course requires some long term planning, but its just so much easier to let the military do it. (sarcasm in second part of sentence.)

I Don't Like This. - Any1 - 10-06-2005

IMHO, once the epidemic happens, you need people with expertise making informed decisions about where/what/when to apply resources. This is a job for CDC and the local (i.e. state, county, town) health officials. They in turn can ask for help from the local constabulary if need be. The preparation for a flu pandemic will take careful detailed planning, close coordination between the aforementioned agencies, resources, and practice. All of which we're probably lacking. (it's time to shave a little off the ~$450 Billion defense budget)

The bottom line is that I wouldn't want soldiers in a position where they can shoot the citizenry because of decisions made by scared and paranoid politicians.

Doc,

How exactly are you prepared for Zombies?

I Don't Like This. - Doc - 10-06-2005

Any1,Oct 5 2005, 10:46 PM Wrote:IMHO, once the epidemic happens, you need people with expertise making informed decisions about where/what/when to apply resources.  This is a job for CDC and the local (i.e. state, county, town) health officials.  They in turn can ask for help from the local constabulary if need be.  The preparation for a flu pandemic will take careful detailed planning, close coordination between the aforementioned agencies, resources, and practice.  All of which we're probably lacking. (it's time to shave a little off the ~$450 Billion defense budget)

The bottom line is that I wouldn't want soldiers in a position where they can shoot the citizenry because of decisions made by scared and paranoid politicians.

Doc,

How exactly are you prepared for Zombies?
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Well, ever since I found out that some university up in North Carolina has been studying the Hatian Zombie Drug from the cane toads and blowfish for applications in space travel, I figured that living in the state next door, I had best be prepared for brain eaters.

[Image: 1400049628.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg]

1. Organize before they rise!
2. They feel no fear, why should you?
3. Use your head: cut off theirs.
4. Blades don’t need reloading.
5. Ideal protection = tight clothes, short hair.
6. Get up the staircase, then destroy it.
7. Get out of the car, get onto the bike.
8. Keep moving, keep low, keep quiet, keep alert!
9. No place is safe, only safer.
10. The zombie may be gone, but the threat lives on.

To this end, I keep a collection of some very, very sharp swords handy. Some guns. A few maces. I have several flame throwers, one of which I use frequently to battle kudzu. I have a couple of crates of live grenades. I have a fine collection of shotguns, and shells full of grapeshot. And the barn is full of TnT, which is useful for all kinds of applications around a farm. But I daresay it would be quite a good idea to stuff a stick of TnT in to a gaping chest wound on a stunned zombie. With a little duct tape, I can strap a stick of TnT to a xbow bolt or an arrow and give the zombie quite a suprise.

Be prepared for anything I always say. <_<

I Don't Like This. - Occhidiangela - 10-06-2005

Doc,Oct 5 2005, 03:16 PM Wrote:All I can think of is The Stand. Flu outbreak, the military taking over, people being silenced, death and more death.
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The idiots in Clinton's administration took the first swing at the the tarbaby of "the military will save us all" by trying to make the Military a one size fits all tool for the politician. "Since the military is expensive, why not have it do more things rather than deter and train," these wankers asked?

Those fools embedded "OOTW" in the lexicon of the soldier. This latest round of idiocy, propped up by LT GEN Honore's no nonsense approach to a mission juxtaposed with FEMA's egg-on-the-face, is yet another attempt to expand the military's mission into areas other than it's core purpose.

How soon people forget.

The purpose of the military is very clear: to fight and win the nation's wars. That is its mission essential task. An implied task is to deter wars through being prepared and credibly able to open a can of whooparse on demand. Its role as a social engineering lab, as a police force, and as any number of other things -- jobs program-- is a dilution of its taks and purpose.

That said, I must say our armed forces have developed a remarkable talent for disaster relief the world over in support of diplomatic and political aims in providing help for our friends, allies, and enemies the world over. I was involved in a few small missions along those lines in the Pacific theatre in the early 90's.

Try this on for size

The Origins of the Coup of 2012

Written by an officer in the Army who was extremely uncomfortable with the political implications of the military being turned into "a tool for all jobs." In 1992. A few of his references are dated, but his core theme is still very germane.

Occhi


I Don't Like This. - Doc - 10-06-2005

Occhidiangela,Oct 6 2005, 07:09 AM Wrote:The idiots in Clinton's administration took the first swing at the the tarbaby of "the military will save us all" by trying to make the Military a one size fits all tool for the politician.&nbsp; "Since the military is expensive, why not have it do more things rather than deter and train," these wankers asked?&nbsp;

Those fools embedded "OOTW" in the lexicon of the soldier.&nbsp; This latest round of idiocy, propped up by LT GEN Honore's no nonsense approach to a mission juxtaposed with FEMA's egg-on-the-face, is yet another attempt to expand the military's mission into areas other than it's core purpose.

How soon people forget.&nbsp;

The purpose of the military is very clear: to fight and win the nation's wars.&nbsp; That is its mission essential task.&nbsp; An implied task is to deter wars through being prepared and credibly able to open a can of whooparse on demand.&nbsp; Its role as a social engineering lab, as a police force, and as any number of other things -- jobs program-- is a dilution of its taks and purpose.

That said, I must say our armed forces have developed a remarkable talent for disaster relief the world over in support of diplomatic and political aims in providing help for our friends, allies, and enemies the world over.&nbsp; I was involved in a few small missions along those lines in the Pacific theatre in the early 90's.

Try this on for size

The Origins of the Coup of 2012

Written by an officer in the Army who was extremely uncomfortable with the political implications of the military being turned into "a tool for all jobs."&nbsp; In 1992.&nbsp; A few of his references are dated, but his core theme is still very germane.

Occhi
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Yes, but is the military ready to save us from the Zombie Menace? Remember rule number 1. Organise before they rise!

It should be noted that Zombies are REAL! Science has been studying them for quite some time. They know all about the zombie drug. Ever seen The Serpent and the Rainbow? Dictator Papa Doc Duvallier of Haiti (1957 to 1971) had a private army of zombies you know.

Save your brains!

I Don't Like This. - Rhydderch Hael - 10-06-2005

Doc,Oct 5 2005, 08:05 PM Wrote:...To this end, I keep a collection of some very, very sharp swords handy. ...
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:blink: You only ever really need is one (as long as it's the right kind). If you have more than one, the only use to make of them is distributing the rest amongst loved ones and stalwart fighting companions in preparation of the siege by the undead.

As to the right ones, choose wisely: 18th-19th Century cavalry sabers are only good if you have several thousand pounds of moving horseflesh situated under your butt. Smallswords are for men who wear tights and powdered wigs. Roman gladii only work if you have a big honkin' shield and a hundred buddies so-armed and standing beside you.

For maintaining distance and versatility, good ol' katana or longsword will do nicely. Closer in, go for the katzbalger or wakazashi. Two-handers are fine enough on foot, but only in open ground (and why are you out in the open, Mr Smartypants?) and you can't swing one of those suckers while riding on a Harley.

The beauty of blades: you don't have to worry about the whole CNS issue. Forget the head— how grabby and bitey can a zombie be when he has no frickin' forearms?

I Don't Like This. - kandrathe - 10-06-2005

Minionman,Oct 5 2005, 05:10 PM Wrote:That of course requires some long term planning, but its just so much easier to let the military do it.&nbsp; (sarcasm in second part of sentence.)
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I'm getting my Flu shot next week. I usually each year forego it, since I'm not scared by a little bout of Flu, but this year I think it might be important.

I Don't Like This. - Minionman - 10-06-2005

Rhydderch Hael,Oct 6 2005, 10:10 AM Wrote::blink: You only ever really need is one (as long as it's the right kind). If you have more than one, the only use to make of them is distributing the rest amongst loved ones and stalwart fighting companions in preparation of the siege by the undead.

As to the right ones, choose wisely: 18th-19th Century cavalry sabers are only good if you have several thousand pounds of moving horseflesh situated under your butt. Smallswords are for men who wear tights and powdered wigs. Roman gladii only work if you have a big honkin' shield and a hundred buddies so-armed and standing beside you.

For maintaining distance and versatility, good ol' katana or longsword will do nicely. Closer in, go for the katzbalger or wakazashi. Two-handers are fine enough on foot, but only in open ground (and why are you out in the open, Mr Smartypants?) and you can't swing one of those suckers while riding on a Harley.

The beauty of blades: you don't have to worry about the whole CNS issue. Forget the head— how grabby and bitey can a zombie be when he has no frickin' forearms?
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This is all assuming these aren't d2 style zombies, in which a baseball bat or some other heavy thing should work fine.

I Don't Like This. - Walkiry - 10-06-2005

Minionman,Oct 6 2005, 08:21 PM Wrote:This is all assuming these aren't d2 style zombies, in which a baseball bat or some other heavy thing should work fine.
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50% finer, in fact.

I Don't Like This. - Occhidiangela - 10-06-2005

Doc,Oct 6 2005, 07:49 AM Wrote:Ever seen The Serpent and the Rainbow?
Yes I did, most entertaining. Salt deprivation is an interesting way to control people.
Quote:Dictator Papa Doc Duvallier&nbsp; of Haiti (1957 to 1971) had a private army of zombies you know.&nbsp;
Oh, I thought they were just plain stoned on the infamous "Hatian Head Hammer" ganja weed.
Quote:Save your brains!
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For me, it's too late. :D




I Don't Like This. - Doc - 10-06-2005

Occhidiangela,Oct 6 2005, 05:06 PM Wrote:Yes I did, most entertaining.&nbsp; Salt deprivation is an interesting way to control people.

Oh, I thought they were just plain stoned on the infamous "Hatian Head Hammer" ganja weed.

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For me, it's too late.&nbsp; :D
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Actually, the salt thing... That's pretty interesting. Salt has an interaction with the zombie drug.



I Don't Like This. - Occhidiangela - 10-07-2005

Doc,Oct 6 2005, 05:20 PM Wrote:Actually, the salt thing... That's pretty interesting. Salt has an interaction with the zombie drug.
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Salt is a key electrolyte that allows your various body functions to properly trigger and proceed. Any number of folks over in Iraq have succumbed to water poisoning, which is drinking (in hot weather) over 2 gallons of water per day while ignoring electrolyte replacement. It can kill you, and will screw you up right quick if the medic does not recognize what you have done.

MRE's have a sort of "Kool Aid" in most rations that is basically powdered Gatorade™. Using it helps replace electrolytes . . . but then, if you eat all three of your MRE's in a day, you'll probably get enough salts to manage. :P

In real hot weather, I have found that it is easy to be thirsty and not all that hungry. I have had heat exhaustion twice in my life, and a mild case of heat stroke once. (Not recently) In both cases, I sweated a lot first, and my brain went loopy. Water poisoning does something similar, or can do.

Salt is important. It is why Quetzacoatl helped the ancient Mexicans invent Tequilla, to ensure they got enough salt in their diets, along with limes to keep the scurvy away. :D

Occhi

I Don't Like This. - Doc - 10-07-2005

Occhidiangela,Oct 6 2005, 08:18 PM Wrote:Salt is a key electrolyte that allows your various body functions to properly trigger and proceed.&nbsp; Any number of folks over in Iraq have succumbed to water poisoning, which is drinking (in hot weather) over 2 gallons of water per day while ignoring electrolyte replacement.&nbsp; It can kill you, and will screw you up right quick if the medic does not recognize what you have done.

MRE's have a sort of "Kool Aid" in most rations that is basically powdered Gatorade™.&nbsp; Using it helps replace electrolytes . . . but then, if you eat all three of your MRE's in a day, you'll probably get enough salts to manage.&nbsp; &nbsp; :P

In real hot weather, I have found that it is easy to be thirsty and not all that hungry.&nbsp; I have had heat exhaustion twice in my life, and a mild case of heat stroke once.&nbsp; (Not recently)&nbsp; In both cases, I sweated a lot first, and my brain went loopy.&nbsp; Water poisoning does something similar, or can do.

Salt is important.&nbsp; It is why Quetzacoatl helped the ancient Mexicans invent Tequilla, to ensure they got enough salt in their diets, along with limes to keep the scurvy away.&nbsp; :D

Occhi
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MREs. Meals Rejected by Ethiopians.

Yuck.

I have stacks of the damn things for hard times.

I Don't Like This. - Occhidiangela - 10-07-2005

Doc,Oct 6 2005, 08:14 PM Wrote:MREs. Meals Rejected by Ethiopians.&nbsp;
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Ain't bad stuff if you work hard all day and are hungry . . . and have a lot of water.

I have yet to hear of anyone our trrops met in the Horn of Africa turn down an MRE, Doc, and I know a lot of guys who have been and are out there doing local "hearts and minds" work.

Now, there was some squawking a few years back, Provide comfort days and Bosnia, when fear of pork made some MRE's taboo. So, the Defense Department, a little heralded group called DLA, and some sharp contractors, developed both a vegetarian and a "Muslim Friendly" MRE.

Your defense dollars at work. :P

I say soak the bullets in bacon grease. :P

Occhi

I Don't Like This. - Rhydderch Hael - 10-07-2005

Occhidiangela,Oct 6 2005, 08:25 PM Wrote:...I say soak the bullets in bacon grease.&nbsp; :P

Occhi
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Never took you for an antiquarian. Isn't that the reason why the Sepoy Mutiny broke out?

I Don't Like This. - whyBish - 10-07-2005

kandrathe,Oct 7 2005, 07:02 AM Wrote:I'm getting my Flu shot next week.&nbsp; I usually each year forego it, since I'm not scared by a little bout of Flu, but this year I think it might be important.
[right][snapback]91241[/snapback][/right]
?
But doesn't the flu-jab only protect you against a few of the many different strains, selected based on which ones are expected to be prevalent?

I Don't Like This. - aaa - 10-07-2005

Minionman,Oct 6 2005, 02:21 PM Wrote:This is all assuming these aren't d2 style zombies, in which a baseball bat or some other heavy thing should work fine.
[right][snapback]91250[/snapback][/right]


You're forgetting about the ultimate anti-zombie weapon, now I know it was in a movie and needs to be taken with a grain of salt, But the results should speak for themselves:

Tetherball flail.


P.S. thought most of the jokes were hit or miss but this was by far the best joke/scene in the movie.

I Don't Like This. - Occhidiangela - 10-07-2005

Rhydderch Hael,Oct 6 2005, 10:58 PM Wrote:Never took you for an antiquarian. Isn't that the reason why the Sepoy Mutiny broke out?
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Yes, and it was a tool used by the American Commander in the Philippines, early 1900's, to deal with some of the Muslim guerillas.

You have to know your enemy.

Occhi