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+--- Thread: Wondering about my mage (/thread-4770.html)
Wondering about my mage - Jarulf - 02-28-2006
I have recently started a mage and have now got him (its a her really) up to level 21. I didn't bother with talents up until last level but decided to make some research and the impression I got was that a mix of arcane tree with either fire or ice seems a good way to go. SInce I didn't want to decide yet, I put my 12 points into the ARcane tree and so far it works great. However, in a few levels I think I will have to decide if I go ice or fire though and also how far down I will go in the arcane tree, so a few questions for advice.
It is my understanding that fire is more damage related while ice is more protection or survivability related. Right? What about focus on arcane or on fire/ice?
Considering I play a lot solo and don't instance that much and don't do any PvP, is there are sugestion for what might work out the best? Note, this is for a level 20 to 40 mage more or less, no point considering end game stuff.
ANy other general adivce about playing a mage that I might have missed so far? Or that is not obvious or easy to figure out by oneself?
Wondering about my mage - Dozer - 02-28-2006
IMHO, the utility you'll get from talents such as Evocation, Improved Counterspell, and Improved Arcane Explosion will make leveling much easier on you.
I've never played a mage, though, and this is just from hearing my mage friends' opinions.
Wondering about my mage - Scalefang - 02-28-2006
Having had a mage up to 60 and looking and reading while doing so, here's what I've learned/heard.
I've heard that straight arcane is good for grinding, however, by the time I heard this I was 60...so I can't validate that.
Ice is survivability, Fire is Damage.
Speccing in Fire creates a very good one on one damage machine, giving access to pyroblast and flamewave (which is fun btw.)
Ice gives more things slow/freeze and gives the ice barrier and the ice ability that makes you an ice cube. The barrier absorbs damage and the cube protects you from damage and wipes aggro I believe.
Usually most mages go arcane and then either fire/ice. There are fire/ice builds for pvp, not sure how that build would hold up in PvE, since you'd be missing PvE staples such as IAE and Evocation and Improved Counterspell.
I played a 21arc/30fire build on my mage, I enjoyed PoM-Pyro combo and flamewave was great in keeping things in AoE range or slowing down attackers in pvp.
However, the last time I played a mage was several patches ago...things may have changed since then. My personal advice...have fun with it, your first respec is cheap.
Wondering about my mage - Sword_of_Doom - 02-28-2006
I levelled a Mage to 60 in 11.5 days using arcane/Fire. Fire gives you the most upfront damage and quick kills. I made sure i got Arcane explosions from the Arcane Tree and then the rest was in Fire. After 60 i switched to a Frost build and have kept that ever since.
Wondering about my mage - ima_nerd - 02-28-2006
Arcane up to IAE, Evocation and Clearcast (not sure how many points that is) and then the rest in Fire would be my recommendation.
Wondering about my mage - Rinnhart - 02-28-2006
I would suggest fire. I never really discovered ice's vaunted survivability in PVE. PVP, sure, you've got some nice tricks, but PVE there's nothing you can't live without. Arcane to Evocation is a must. That's a better "Oh #$%&" ability than anything Frost has to offer.
Really, the reason I ended up fire over frost was the damn binary spells. I can live with partial resists; consistent, full resists are just obnoxious.
Wondering about my mage - Gurnsey - 02-28-2006
Rinnhart,Feb 28 2006, 10:29 AM Wrote:I never really discovered ice's vaunted survivability in PVEDid you ever watch the Stupid Mage Tricks video?
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Wow, ice. Of course, this is at level 60 with some serious equipment, and I think he's actually 31 arcane, 20 ice.
There's a link to it in the Favorite Video thread; I'll see if I can dig it up.
As for a spec for levelling, I can't contribute; my highest mage ever was 25 :)
edit - Aha! Stupid Mage Tricks
Wondering about my mage - Bob the Beholder - 02-28-2006
Gurnsey,Feb 28 2006, 05:48 PM Wrote:Did you ever watch the Stupid Mage Tricks video?
Wow, ice. Of course, this is at level 60 with some serious equipment, and I think he's actually 31 arcane, 20 ice.
There's a link to it in the Favorite Video thread; I'll see if I can dig it up.
As for a spec for levelling, I can't contribute; my highest mage ever was 25 :)
edit - Aha! Stupid Mage Tricks
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No, Faxmonkey has said that he's never going to give up the deep frost talents. 33 frost, 18 arcane.
Frost and fire are both pretty equal, in my opinion. Fire has higher damage per hit, and is going to be the fastest grinding build. But frost tends to be a bit more mana efficient, and with a combination of the talents Ice Shards and Shatter you can basically rig a fight to cause a crit or two, which can help catch up to the damage of fire. Also, the lower frost nova cooldown can be helpful, and Cold Snap in case a crucial frost nova resists.
*edit*
Also, serious equipment? Depends on your definition. He has epics, and they are nice ones. But he's wearing mostly blues.
Wondering about my mage - Rinnhart - 02-28-2006
Bob the Beholder,Feb 28 2006, 11:04 AM Wrote:No, Faxmonkey has said that he's never going to give up the deep frost talents. 33 frost, 18 arcane.
Frost and fire are both pretty equal, in my opinion. Fire has higher damage per hit, and is going to be the fastest grinding build. But frost tends to be a bit more mana efficient, and with a combination of the talents Ice Shards and Shatter you can basically rig a fight to cause a crit or two, which can help catch up to the damage of fire. Also, the lower frost nova cooldown can be helpful, and Cold Snap in case a crucial frost nova resists.
*edit*
Also, serious equipment? Depends on your definition. He has epics, and they are nice ones. But he's wearing mostly blues.
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Yeah, the cool thing about Fax is the crap he pulls off in fairly "ok" gear.
I was heavy frost, but I prefer fire. I'd probably respec frost if I hit 60.
Wondering about my mage - Xame - 02-28-2006
Since this sounds like your first mage, the following is almost a required set of
skills for solo/pve/pvp. (The elemental mage is a special mage for those who are trying to prove something at level 60.)
Improved Arcane Missiles Rank 5
Improved Arcane Explosion Rank 5
Evocation Rank 1
Improved Counterspell Rank 2
Consider these the utility spells that you cann't live without.
If you go fire:
Ignite Rank 5
Incinerate Rank 2
Improved Flamestrike Rank 3
Blast Wave Rank 1
(Pyroblast is a Arcane Mage talent with Presense of Mind or a pve server skill)
Your opener will be a fireball followed by lots of scorches/fireblasts. Or for AoE Flamestrike followed by blast wave (for the daze so you can IAE). Fire has a lot of punch and you go for a "crit" build since you want Ignite up as much as possible. Many people choose this as the prefered way to level a mage. The downside is that many mobs at lvl 60 have high fire resist and the "gearing" at level 60 does not work in your favor. Thus you hear the "level with fire, cap in ice". Also playing a fire mage will make you a better frost mage since fire kiting is faster and more precise. See the Sorrow Hill video set for ideas of how this mage plays. Also I personally found this spec easier for low level farming because of the great AoE combo (for felcoth and rep).
If you go in ice:
Improved Frostbolt Rank 5
Ice Shards Rank 5
Improved Frost Nova Rank 2
Cold Snap Rank 1
Shatter Rank 5
And I personally like (personal taste here, not required):
Improved Blizzard Rank 3 (must have some AoE although it really sucks)
Ice Block Rank 1 (required for Ice Barrier)
Improved Cone of Cold Rank 3 (almost a required for me since it is an instant cast, I cast it ALL the time, best 3 pts spent beyond the required group and it makes a great AoE since Blizzard is such a bad spell)
Frostbite Rank 5 (extra frozen targets mean extra crits and less damage incoming)
Ice Barrier Rank 1 (the 31 pointer)
As a frost mage your talents are built around building a good frost bolt while still picking up some of the utility of the frost line. Basic combat is rather easy. If you can "....chill it you can kill it" -- Faxmonkey. Frost bolt, frost bolt, fireblast, few steps back + frost nova, frost bolt + cone of cold, run .... rinse repeat. Just keep your target chilled and you will win. I've even killed an even level with just a wand while regenerating enough mana while kiting to keep the target chilled and taking 0 damage (Faxmonkey demos this technique with elites in his video). Blizzard made this spec the perfered one at 60 because the plus damage gear helps a frost mage's frost bolt more then any other skill (for leveling this is a wash because of the current ranks of the various spell at a given level keep changing).
As I like to tell most new mages, Improved AM will kill amost any non-elite, even level mob head to head. Its just not efficient because of the mana cost per damage. You will need to practice your kiting to be a good mage. Remeber you have multiple tricks to kite: frost nova, blink and cone of cold. And even though you are a "Fire" or "Frost" mage does not mean you don't use the other school's spells in routine combat.
Although you don't PvP, many mages keep Rank 1, IAE and Rank 1 frostbolt on their tool bar as rogue sonar (ping!) and quick crowd control if you are already holding a sheep (or don't want the mage heal of sheeping a target).
Edited to fix Rinnhart's comment about IFB. I meant to put in Ignite (cut and paste from playing with the spec, sorry about that). Don't waste the points on IFB.
Wondering about my mage - Rinnhart - 02-28-2006
Quote:Improved Fire Blast Rank 3
Ick. The half second from the first point is acceptable, the diminished return for investment after that... you're certainly better off with Imp. Fireball, Flame Throwing, or definately with Ignite.
Wondering about my mage - Gurnsey - 02-28-2006
Bob the Beholder,Feb 28 2006, 12:04 PM Wrote:No, Faxmonkey has said that he's never going to give up the deep frost talents. 33 frost, 18 arcane.Pretty darn good for "good" equipment then, too. That guy has some serious skills!
Frost and fire are both pretty equal, in my opinion. Fire has higher damage per hit, and is going to be the fastest grinding build. But frost tends to be a bit more mana efficient, and with a combination of the talents Ice Shards and Shatter you can basically rig a fight to cause a crit or two, which can help catch up to the damage of fire. Also, the lower frost nova cooldown can be helpful, and Cold Snap in case a crucial frost nova resists.
*edit*
Also, serious equipment? Depends on your definition. He has epics, and they are nice ones. But he's wearing mostly blues.
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The Stupid Mage Tricks is one of my favorite PVE vids - does he have others?
Wondering about my mage - Rinnhart - 02-28-2006
Gurnsey,Feb 28 2006, 01:12 PM Wrote:Pretty darn good for "good" equipment then, too. That guy has some serious skills!
The Stupid Mage Tricks is one of my favorite PVE vids - does he have others?
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I think there's a Stupid Mage Tricks 2 and he has a series of PvP videos. I'll ask my mage buddies.
Wondering about my mage - Bob the Beholder - 02-28-2006
Rinnhart,Feb 28 2006, 09:21 PM Wrote:I think there's a Stupid Mage Tricks 2 and he has a series of PvP videos. I'll ask my mage buddies.
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Stupider Mage Tricks is what the second PvE video is called. It is absolutely nuts. And he has a number of PvP videos, showing off just how 'defensive' frost spec is. (Which is to say that he three-shots people without Arcane Power.)
Wondering about my mage - MongoJerry - 02-28-2006
I've only gotten a mage to level 40, but some of the comments from the mages in my guild was that they prefered going frost when leveling, because both of how easy it is to kite mobs and because of its better mana efficiency. However, as with talent specs for all classes, what's best to choose depends on your personality.
Wondering about my mage - Xame - 03-01-2006
Bob the Beholder,Feb 28 2006, 04:00 PM Wrote:Stupider Mage Tricks is what the second PvE video is called. It is absolutely nuts. And he has a number of PvP videos, showing off just how 'defensive' frost spec is. (Which is to say that he three-shots people without Arcane Power.)
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Stupider Mage Tricks is great except some of the fights are no longer possible the way he shows them. Blizzard has fixed the Cloak of Fire which was clearly an off the wall bug. It took all of your +dmg gear and created an aoe effect when the cloak was used giving the full gear bonus. This should be +25 fire dmg/5 sec for 15sec. Faxmonkey with the bug is getting ~+750 fire dmg/5 sec for 15 sec inside of an iceblock (trinketed up). I believe it was fixed in 1.9.
Also Faxmonkey shows how the +dmg gearing progression favors frost mages in the endgame with many manufactured crits for 2x (talent). My estimate is that he has +250 - +300 dmg gear on with very nice stam. You really need to have epics to get these kinds of numbers (since they appear to be +dmg not +frost dmg....see his use of IAE). All of this +dmg gear really isn't a factor when you are leveling per the original poster. It's something you do when you are cap'ed at 60 and are trying to get better by gear alone.
The "naked" mage fight was one of the great demonstrations of "frost" mob control although I disagree with his use of the Blizzard in the fight because of its mana/dmg eff; but it is an instant frost effect so maybe in the situation.....I need to think about this more.
Wondering about my mage - Rinnhart - 03-01-2006
Rinnhart,Feb 28 2006, 09:29 AM Wrote:I would suggest fire. I never really discovered ice's vaunted survivability in PVE. PVP, sure, you've got some nice tricks, but PVE there's nothing you can't live without. Arcane to Evocation is a must. That's a better "Oh #$%&" ability than anything Frost has to offer.
Really, the reason I ended up fire over frost was the damn binary spells. I can live with partial resists; consistent, full resists are just obnoxious.
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An exception to my preference for fire:
If you can find another mage to duo with- both of you go deep frost. It's not even funny.
Wondering about my mage - Wogan - 03-02-2006
Oh god, I have seen dual frost mages absolutely carve up ridiculuously sized pulls using Improved Blizzard and Ice Barrier. Just amazing stuff.
However, fire is the way to go for solo grinding in my opinion, though really it does boil down to a matter of play style.
Wondering about my mage - savaughn - 03-03-2006
I actually just started my third mage (lvl 20) because I like the class so much. Having played practically every build, I agree with fire/arcane for leveling.
At level 21, I would recommend the following talents, in this order:
- 5 - Improved Arcane Missiles
- 5 - Improved Fireball
- 2 - Flame Throwing
- 3 - Impact
- 1 - Pyroblast
- 5 - Arcane Concentration
- 1 - Evocation
That gets you to level 31 with a reasonable fire/arcane base. Ultimately you will want the following as well but the order is really up to you depending on play style.
- 5 - Impact
- 5 - Ignite
- 1 - Improved Fire Blast
- 5 - Improved Arcane Explosion
- 2 - Improved Countespell
- 1 - Presence of Mind
Ultimately, you end up with either Arcane Power or Fire Power.
Wondering about my mage - Xame - 03-03-2006
My personal order of talenting a fire mage (having done it to 60 before the respec to frost). This is really all style so find your own and go with it. Remember to think about the instances/mobs you will face and when you need a given skill. Spec is 27/24/0
Improved Arcane Missiles (5) -> Impact (5) -> Ignite (5) -> Incinerate (2) -> Arcane Concentration (5) -> Evocation (1) -> Improved Arcane Explosion (5) -> Improved Counterspell (2) -> Improved Mana Shield (2) -> Presence of Mind (1) -> Improved Flamestrike (3) -> Improved Scorch (4) -> Improved Fire Ward (1) -> Blast Wave (1) -> Critical Mass (3) -> Arcane Focus (4) -> Arcane Instability (2)
Most of this is geared around the instance and things that you will encounter while leveling with a bit for PvP. You get IAE just in time for SM. The Flamestrike comes in when you get near maradon and the Arcane focus is when you head in to some higher end content where fire is resisted. With gearing at 60 I had a 25-30% chance to crit the scorch and fireblast, thus Ignite was cooking almost all the time (giving me very good steady dps for instance runs, NOT high aggro ripping brusts).
I personally am not a big fan of range or the really big opener. I favor more utility. I press fireblast everytime it is up and with its good crit rate in fire, is my main damage dealer (even in frost I press it alot), down side is you need to fight closer. Again this is very much a style thing. I view this build as IAM for low level power killing (required), building a good scorch and fireblast for day to day work, picking up IAE for when the 5 mans need it, then going for PoM for PvP fun, then getting more/better aoe in flamestrike and blast wave and finally getting Arcane focus for BRD etc where they have high resists to fire (about 50-70% of your fire damage is resisted away).
At 60 cap, I respec'ed to frost (18/0/33) after a few months because of hating fire resists of much of this content. This has changed now with ZG, AQ and the 5 man'ing of Strat, Scholo, Brd for 1.10. But I'm sticking with frost because the itemization of +dmg is better at my current level of gearing. I really really miss PoM and Blast Wave, but the improved CoC + Ice Shards + Shatter + Frostbite put a huge smile on my face with all of my +dmg gear (the jaw dropping moments in frost mage videos). Without a huge pile of +dmg (> +100 dmg), frost is not as good, thus the "fire for leveling". Although I will agree, two frost mages working together at any level is just overpowering given how well the frost talents work together.