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What is a "world drop" and other questions... - Jarulf - 03-13-2006
I have many times seen "world drop" when it comes to items from monsters (and perahps chests and such but not sure) and was just wondering what it really is?
My understanding of the item creation in WoW is basically the following. Each monster has a predetermined small subset of items it drops, this can probably be shared by many other monsters too. This includes bosses (who seems to be alone on their specific subset though). In addition, the game at times instead (or in addition??) makes a world drop, which is basically a quite rare and valuable item from a world wide list of items. Basically this can thus be anything from any source (well, anything from the world list). Is this correct? Is the items on that list only on that list or can they be found otherwise as well? Can any monster drop from the world list?
More in detail, is there really any good more detailed explanation of how random items are created by the game? Many of the "good" items people look for from certain bosses and such seems to be predetermined and have set stats, nothing random, but then there is random items as well, how does those work? Are they from the world drop or is it something else?
Is there some guide somewere that goes into item drops, sources and such in more detail? I mean, what to look for, ehat exists, were to go and so on. I know there are database sites such as Allakhazam (spelling?), Thottbot and such, but they are basically just databases one can look up stuff in, not good sources for more "guidelike" information or more complete look over on what there exists.
An example would be my current Priest, he had decent items after doing some instances in the early 40-ies, now at 52, I can probably need some heavy upgrade on items I use, but were to look? And what alternatives exists from for example tailoring? What about enchanting, what too look for? What exists? Other things to consider?
Another example would be me hitting the AH, what can I expect to find if I am lucky? What should I keen an eye out for and so on.
Preferably I like printable information. Seems almost everything today is just online databases were you can look up stuff, which is useless except for just that, look up a specific item you know of or a specific boss to see what it drops, to look it all up takes ages (literally) and you still end up not really remember anything.
Leaving items aside, is there some good guide about how the game really works? The game itself is completely useless of course. Finding an item that gives "up to 12 extra healing" doesn't say anything since, for one, it does not at all add 12 to healing (or damage) but much less and varying with spells and so on. SO how on earth are one supposed to know if it is wort it or not? Is it better to have +12 healing and damage or +15 to int as a priest? (Soloing). What about that talent that increases your chance to score a critical hit by 1% (I assume it increases the chance from, say 4% to 5%, not from 4% to 4.04% although that is a more correct interpretation). Typically it looks as a waste of time when I first read it but appearantly it is not always soo. And what are the chances to resist a stun anyway? How else can I judge if an increase in 1% is good or not?
Well, I stop with questions now, I think you get the idea what type of information I am looking for :)
What is a "world drop" and other questions... - Rinnhart - 03-13-2006
Jarulf,Mar 13 2006, 08:34 AM Wrote:I have many times seen "world drop" when it comes to items from monsters (and perahps chests and such but not sure) and was just wondering what it really is?
My understanding of the item creation in WoW is basically the following. Each monster has a predetermined small subset of items it drops, this can probably be shared by many other monsters too. This includes bosses (who seems to be alone on their specific subset though). In addition, the game at times instead (or in addition??) makes a world drop, which is basically a quite rare and valuable item from a world wide list of items. Basically this can thus be anything from any source (well, anything from the world list). Is this correct? Is the items on that list only on that list or can they be found otherwise as well? Can any monster drop from the world list?
Think of it like Diablo2, except with far more variety. World drops are sets and uniques. Bosses have unique item lists they usually drop from, in addition to racial and random loot.
Quote:More in detail, is there really any good more detailed explanation of how random items are created by the game? Many of the "good" items people look for from certain bosses and such seems to be predetermined and have set stats, nothing random, but then there is random items as well, how does those work? Are they from the world drop or is it something else?
"Green" items are the randomized stat one (though with only one suffix, it's not too random), generally they are world drops. There are also green, non-random, non-set sets of items that share names and are world drops. Most grey-elite monsters drop a random green or a rare, unique item.
Quote:Is there some guide somewere that goes into item drops, sources and such in more detail? I mean, what to look for, ehat exists, were to go and so on. I know there are database sites such as Allakhazam (spelling?), Thottbot and such, but they are basically just databases one can look up stuff in, not good sources for more "guidelike" information or more complete look over on what there exists.
An example would be my current Priest, he had decent items after doing some instances in the early 40-ies, now at 52, I can probably need some heavy upgrade on items I use, but were to look? And what alternatives exists from for example tailoring? What about enchanting, what too look for? What exists? Other things to consider?
Another example would be me hitting the AH, what can I expect to find if I am lucky? What should I keen an eye out for and so on.
Preferably I like printable information. Seems almost everything today is just online databases were you can look up stuff, which is useless except for just that, look up a specific item you know of or a specific boss to see what it drops, to look it all up takes ages (literally) and you still end up not really remember anything.
Problem is how subjective many of the answers you're asking for are.
Thottbot and Allakhazam both have search engines that allow you to plug in stats, values, item types and levels for more general searches.
The biggest issue with non-electronic mediums and MMOs is the sheer volume of information. Forums and websites are generally the best sources of information. MMOs tend to be fairly secretive about some mechanics, Blizzard is more open than most.
Quote:Leaving items aside, is there some good guide about how the game really works? The game itself is completely useless of course. Finding an item that gives "up to 12 extra healing" doesn't say anything since, for one, it does not at all add 12 to healing (or damage) but much less and varying with spells and so on. SO how on earth are one supposed to know if it is wort it or not? Is it better to have +12 healing and damage or +15 to int as a priest? (Soloing). What about that talent that increases your chance to score a critical hit by 1% (I assume it increases the chance from, say 4% to 5%, not from 4% to 4.04% although that is a more correct interpretation). Typically it looks as a waste of time when I first read it but appearantly it is not always soo. And what are the chances to resist a stun anyway? How else can I judge if an increase in 1% is good or not?
Well, I stop with questions now, I think you get the idea what type of information I am looking for :)
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The key to gearing in MMO's is that it's all cumulative. +10 here and +5 there adds up very quickly. The +crit chance talents (spell and melee), which are generally 1% to a point, are all excellent talents as crit chance is exceptionally difficult to get on items pre-60 and even raid drops tend to come only 1 or 2% at a time.
Stun chance depends upon level and race (or monster type). I believe resist chance for all spells is 5% minimum with +1% for every level of difference between you and and your target (to a minimum of 5% unless reduced by talents). Orcs have a natural +25% chance to resist stuns (why yes that is high :whistling: ), elementals tend to be immune to spells of the same element type.
gotta run, will add/correct some stuff later
What is a "world drop" and other questions... - Shriek - 03-13-2006
I haven't seen the guide you're looking for. A lot of this information just has to be gleaned from the Alla/Thott databases, in-game experiences, and the rare useful post on the official forums. This kind of information is _precisely_ why I visit the Lurker Lounge. :)
Jarulf,Mar 13 2006, 10:34 AM Wrote:Is this correct?Pretty much.
Quote:Can any monster drop from the world list?Again, pretty much, with a few limitations.
Drops are limited by the level of the mob, so that you don't get a cracked sash dropping from lvl 60s, and unless you're running an instance a little early, I've found that it's extremely unusual to have an item drop that you can't yet use.
Drops are also limited by mob type. Humanoids can drop cloth of appropriate level, beasts can't. You won't find feathers on an ooze creature (though you might find some interesting stuff in there).
While almost, if not every mob can drop from the "World Drop" table (which seems to include grey, green, blue, and purple items), some have a higher chance of dropping higher quality, namely bosses, elites, and rare spawns. AoE trash, on the other hand, often have a very low chance of dropping anything (though there is rumor that some actually have a higher chance than normal for epics).
Blizzard also seems to be fond of giving individual mobs a special loot table in addition to the typical one for their class, to promote farming, such as with the dungeon set pieces. There are several profession recipes that only drop from mobs in Tyr's Hand, a somewhat obscure camp of elites.
Quote:Many of the "good" items people look for from certain bosses and such seems to be predetermined and have set stats, nothing random, but then there is random items as well, how does those work?There are green items in every level range, on the world drop table, that roll a random suffix like "of Intellect" or "of the Monkey" as was the case with Diablo. There are a few items tied to a smaller drop table that can also spawn with a random suffix, such as the Atal'ai gloves, which only drop from six specific mobs in the Sunken Temple.
The stats generated by the suffixes are fairly tightly controlled by the item's level, but there can be a little fluctuation (e.g. a Peridot Ring of Fire Resistance might be +19 or +20). The stats on items without such a suffix are static. Every Bone Slicing Hatchet is just like every other, until you add enchants.
Quote:I can probably need some heavy upgrade on items I use, but were to look? And what alternatives exists from for example tailoring?Personally, I like to use Thottbot. The profession lists are pretty easy to go over, since there aren't that many in a given level range that'd be useful--just pick the "Tailoring" link, hover over the icons to find where your level range is on the list.
Finding appropriate drops is tougher. Go to the "Find Armor" search page, and narrow it down as much as you can. Think it's time to upgrade those Berylline Pads? Choose "Shoulder", "Cloth", "Drop", "Superior", and set the level (the item's level, not the required level--this takes some browsing on Thott to get used to) to 52 - 57 or so. You only get three items back; one's no good for a priest, one's bind-on-equip (which indicates that it's a world drop--check the prices on the AH, but don't plan on finding one), and the other looks pretty good--pull it's page up, and you can see that you need to go find Rotgrip in Maraudon.
Alternately, you can search by the mobs instead. You know that the Sunken Temple is a pretty good level for you, so go to the "Find NPCs" page, and select "The Temple of Atal'Hakkar" and "Phat Loot"--ignore any result with less than about 100 kills--there's a lot of trash out there :(. Pick each boss and see what they might have for you.
Quote:Preferably I like printable information.Not a lot there--I have gotten some use, at least, out of printing the profession lists from Thott--but that's a lot more useful when you already know what the items are.
What is a "world drop" and other questions... - Darian - 03-13-2006
Jarulf,Mar 13 2006, 12:34 PM Wrote:I have many times seen "world drop" when it comes to items from monsters (and perahps chests and such but not sure) and was just wondering what it really is?
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I'm going to be more expository than you probably need me to be, for the sake of actually being guide-like rather than just answering your question. :)
"World Drop" has one actual meaning, but two connotations.
1) Technically, it means any item which is not constrained to dropping from any mob or specific subset of mobs (to include "all mobs in a given area/zone/instance"). Obviously, Maladath, Runed Blade of the Black Flight is not a World Drop; it only drops from Broodlord Lashlayer in BWL. Similarly, Hourglass Sand is not a world drop; it only drops in BWL, although from random mobs. Likewise with, say, items which only drop off the furbolgs in southern Felwood.
2) To an extent, some people restrict the term to Epic (or possibly Rare) gear items which do not drop from a specific boss (or group of bosses). In this sense, a World Drop encompasses Epics such as the Axe of the Woods on down to green items such as Adjective Noun of the Animal, which are always randomly generated. These are items which are contained within a table designed for random item seeding.
I'll now engage in a lot of wild speculation based on logic and observation. Each mob sort of has four loot tables, from what I can figure. This would make more sense than actually populating each specific mob type with a specfic loot table containing every item that mob can possibly drop.
The first would be cash. Humanoids will generally always drop cash, as will certain other mob types. The game likely checks to see if a mob drops cash, then the RNG applies itself against that mob's potential cash drop rate, which is both level- and mob type-dependent. (Some mob types will drop more cash than other mob types of the same level.) I'm fairly sure this is a separate check entirely from loot, as cash isn't so much an item as it is a simple additive.
The second would be materials and "common items". Certain classes of mob will drop cloth, herbs, ore, potions, food, and so on. Because all humans in a level range around 40 are liable to drop Silk Cloth, it makes sense to assume that the code checks against a key which places the mob into a class for this sort of thing and checks for its presence, rather than looking up a loot table which has "1 silk cloth," "2 silk cloth," "8 silk cloth," etc. Because of the wide nature of these item drops, it seems reasonable to me that they're also outside the standard concept of the loot table.
The third is quite clearly mob-specific drops -- things which can only drop from a single mob (boss or named), or only from a single mob type (i.e., you may only get Widget_001 from killing "Riverpaw Brutes"; "Riverpaw Shaman" won't drop it). There's a percentage rate on this (up to 100%). For this, you're also looking at collection quest items, I'm sure. This is the only type of drop where it makes logical sense to tie a loot table to a mob or mob type.
Finally, you get to World Drops. I'd guess that there's a flag which turns off a mob's eligibility to drop a World Drop (there are mobs which appear to only drop certain items, period). Outside of that, it's apparent that every mob has a percentage chance to hit the World Drop table based on mob level -- even some end-game boss mobs will occasionally drop World rares as part of their haul. I have no idea of the actual percentage chances, but just for illustration... I'd presume that it first checks for the existence of an epic item (some infinitesmal percentage chance). If that check fails, it goes on to check for a rare item (say maybe .02% chance). That check may actually be two checks; it may check for a unique rare, then check for a randomized rare (Adjective Noun of the Animal), or "randomized rare" may be an actual item in the rare table which then instigates the randomization. If the rare check fails, it would go on to check for an uncommon, then a common, then a junk item. If all these checks fail, it exits.
These tables also apply to chests (although undoubtedly with a slightly different mechanism). Not every mob or chest will check all four tables; some mobs absolutely do not drop cash, for example, some mobs only drop items specifically itemized to them, and some mobs even only drop World Drops. Any or all of these checks may fail for a given mob, resulting in the dreaded empty loot window.
Again, all that babble I just tossed out is just speculation, but it's certainly the way I'd have designed things, and it makes sense that it would be this way. If every single mob had its own loot table, the game database would be absolutely ridiculous.
What is a "world drop" and other questions... - Xanthix - 03-13-2006
Jarulf,Mar 13 2006, 11:34 AM Wrote:Leaving items aside, is there some good guide about how the game really works?
On this front, this URL may be helpful:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas_and_Game_Mechanics
Many of the game mechanics are now known, but many are also unknown, or we only have a rough idea. I think this is because unlike Diablo 1/2, many of the formulas only reside on the server and we are not made privy to them.
For example we know how melee crit chance works and is calculated, since there is an indicator of your crit rate in the spellbook. But until recently all we knew about spell crit chance was that more intellect = more spell crits. Blizzards has since shed a little light on that formula, but many are still unknown.