+- The Lurker Lounge Forums (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Lurker Games (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/forum-6.html)
+--- Forum: World of Warcraft (https://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/forum-16.html)
+--- Thread: Core Mechanics Change via Patch (/thread-3718.html)
Core Mechanics Change via Patch - Zarathustra - 11-03-2006
Here's the thread: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.h...=43824970&sid=1
And here are the blue quotes regarding...
Hunter Agility to RAP functionality:
Quote:Yep. It's a core change to the mechanics so you will see it in the patch.
The best rule of thumb when trying to figure out what is and isn't coming is to think of what is considered a 'core' part of the game itself and seperate it from what is expansion only and doesn't effect the entire game.
I know people are still trying to get a feel for what to expect and I realize that for many it won't sink in until they see it. I've always been a 'hands on' sort of player myself. Experiencing something for me is usually better than theorizing about it.
UI changes (/script abilities and Decursive) and Pet Scaling:
Quote:UI as well and I believe pet scaling however I'm not 100% on that one. I may have to go back through some notes and double check so don't count that as gospel.
*edit- Just so you are aware, WHEN this all happens we will have notes to try to cover the changes. We don't always manage to get every detail in the patch notes but we try to get the most important things in where we can. I know many people have more questions but those questions will be best answered when you read the notes that way all the answers are in one place for you.
I hope that helps a bit.
Tuning Encounters that were made with Decursive in mind:
Quote:I'm sorry but word is still the same. We will not be changing those encounters or adjusting them at this point in time. There are players that have done them without needing decursive (don't stone me for saying that) but for the most part, as players are able to level up with the expansion, those encounters become less of a challenge and by adjusting them we could end up trivializing them rather than helping players accomplish beating them.
Will there be a PTR up to test these things?
Quote:All in good time my cynical friend. All in good time.:)
All quotes by Nethaera.
In summary...
New agility mechanics for hunters.
Possible pet scaling.
Decursive gone.
Encounters untouched.
As one might infer from the "anything that's part of the core game" comment, downranking of spells alterred to receive less +heal.
And finally, we'll have a PTR up before the patch goes in, so no worries about it being a surprise one Tuesday morning without any warning.
Core Mechanics Change via Patch - Zarathustra - 11-03-2006
Replying to myself for thoughts, leaving the original as objective as I can...
They're not tuning the encounters...
They're not... tuning... the encounters....
The idea that people will be able to level up in the expansion has nothing to do with the fact that some players will be playing without the expansion, or simply might be attempting these encounters without waiting for an obscenely high level. Fights like Chromaggus or Faerlina that require fast cleansing will not be touched. Fights such as Patchwerk which have people downranking heals to make ends meet will go up quite a bit.
This might not effect guilds who've had them on farm for ages, but for those who are new to them and learning the ropes, it's going to be a steep hill to climb.
The only thing I can forsee being a saving grace is that the players may have access to greater damage output through the new talents and the 40-debuff limit. We shall see.
Core Mechanics Change via Patch - Skandranon - 11-03-2006
Quote:The idea that people will be able to level up in the expansion has nothing to do with the fact that some players will be playing without the expansion, or simply might be attempting these encounters without waiting for an obscenely high level. Fights like Chromaggus or Faerlina that require fast cleansing will not be touched. Fights such as Patchwerk which have people downranking heals to make ends meet will go up quite a bit.
The fight that'll suffer most from the loss of Decursive is Sapphiron. Just about every guild who's there has had some Decursive holdouts who finally gave up and installed it on Sapphiron. Life Drain ain't no Lucifron curse.
Core Mechanics Change via Patch - vor_lord - 11-03-2006
Quote:This might not effect guilds who've had them on farm for ages, but for those who are new to them and learning the ropes, it's going to be a steep hill to climb.
Hoping to see Chrommagus for the first time tonight. Maybe we'll get Nef down before this patch.
Quote:The only thing I can forsee being a saving grace is that the players may have access to greater damage output through the new talents and the 40-debuff limit. We shall see.
You will be able to stack HoTs as well, which will make some encounters easier. Trying to figure out how much is hurting my brain.
Core Mechanics Change via Patch - oldmandennis - 11-03-2006
My CTRA decursive function broke some time ago, I had no problems on Chromaggus. I can't speak to Noth or Sapphiron, except to say that many of the people who say Sapph is impossible without decursive also say Chrom is hard without it.
Hunters are going to really struggle for DPS with the changes to aimed shot, and steady shot not available till level 66.
Core Mechanics Change via Patch - Concillian - 11-03-2006
Quote:You will be able to stack HoTs as well, which will make some encounters easier. Trying to figure out how much is hurting my brain.
Don't forget having 24 extra debuff slots... plus potentially adding more raid DPS through some of the extra talent points like blood craze and expose weakness. Those should add some decent DPS, making the boss fights shorter, leaving more margin for error.
Rage normalization, however, will hurt.
Core Mechanics Change via Patch - TheDragoon - 11-04-2006
Quote:Rage normalization, however, will hurt.Everything I have read has said it wouldn't be that noticable in the current game. I don't really think this is really that big a deal compared to a lot of the other things that are going in. :)
Core Mechanics Change via Patch - Zarathustra - 11-04-2006
Quote:My CTRA decursive function broke some time ago, I had no problems on Chromaggus. I can't speak to Noth or Sapphiron, except to say that many of the people who say Sapph is impossible without decursive also say Chrom is hard without it.
OMD, if you've seen me around you know my stance on Decursive. Since early on I've felt it's a crutch and that it encourages reliance on an automated system to, in effect, play the game for the gamer. Identifying and cleansing debuffs is an aspect of the game just as healing or tanking might be, and the "decursive" functionality destroyed that. I've never used Decursive. I manually select and decurse (or abolish, as the case may be) debuffs since I have the entire raid up on my screen at all times with debuffs shown. I did it on Lucifron. I still do it on Faerlina. Sapphiron might be a while. *grins*
What worries me is that Blizzard openly tuned encounters with Decursive (and other mods of its kind) in mind. They admitted this, and if you look at the damage output of some of the nastier debuffs in Naxxramas it's pretty obvious that they need you cleanse the raid as a whole, ASAP. I've not yet seen Sapphiron in person, but I don't like the thought of an encounter that's been tuned expecting the players to use Decursive with that "expected" functionality outlawed.
Fights like Patchwerk in which an immense amount of healing is needed just got harder through the decreased effectiveness of downranking spells. They will either necessitate even more consumables or (and perhaps this is their goal) a complete rethinking of what makes suitable healing gear.
The other side of the coin is that some encounters just got a lot easier, and should also be tuned accordingly. Maexxna is going to be a joke with stacking HoTs. What was a challenge when learning the encounter is going to be nullified by the abundance of heals over time. They should increase her damage vs. Web Sprayed opponents accordingly to compensate.
I don't want automated cleansing in the game. I don't want them to reconsider the changes they are making to the +heal system and downranking. I do want them to reevaluate the content with the new game mechanics in mind. I also feel that it is unfair to anyone attempting these encounters for the first time that Blizzard would respond to their difficulties by saying "it'll get easier with higher level people."
The expansion is unfinished. The same could be said of the changes in mechanics if they neglect to take a second look at the encounters.
Core Mechanics Change via Patch - oldmandennis - 11-04-2006
Quote:I do want them to reevaluate the content with the new game mechanics in mind. I also feel that it is unfair to anyone attempting these encounters for the first time that Blizzard would respond to their difficulties by saying "it'll get easier with higher level people."
The expansion is unfinished. The same could be said of the changes in mechanics if they neglect to take a second look at the encounters.
It's probably a manpower issue - all of the content/balancing types are working overtime on the xpac right now. For the most part, with the exception of possibly patches and saph, the fights should be easier, as kindof a thank you for playing, see some cool content. If it's only those two fights that are out of line, they could be hotfixed later.
And that comment about "higher level people" I think was from a CM, not really a dev.
Core Mechanics Change via Patch - Skandranon - 11-04-2006
Quote:My CTRA decursive function broke some time ago, I had no problems on Chromaggus. I can't speak to Noth or Sapphiron, except to say that many of the people who say Sapph is impossible without decursive also say Chrom is hard without it.
Sapphiron and Chromaggus are entirely different leagues. Noth is sort of a step between them. Three of Chromaggus' debuffs are small dots, and the other two aren't directly fatal. There's plenty of time to locate and cleanse them. The only thing raid-threatening is if all five debuffs land on a player and he gets transformed, and even that's not fatal if your raid is on-the-ball enough. There is, at any rate, ample warning before a player gets to that state, and you have 20-30 seconds at the very least to clear everyone.
On Noth, you have ten seconds to clear a curse before it blows up and effectively wipes your raid, which is a lot more dangerous. Still, it has a max target cap, it's outrangeable, and ten seconds is enough for one decurser to clear a group and then some (four global cooldowns = a little over 6 seconds counting latency). He curses once a minute or so, which is five or six times across the typical fight.
Sapph is orders of magnitude worse. Every thirty-ish seconds (the fight is nine to ten minutes long), he randomly Life Drains 10-20 people. You can't control it or outrange it, and you have all of three seconds to get it off everybody before it ticks. Everyone's hanging around at half life due to Frost Aura anyway, so a tick of Life Drain has about a 50/50 chance of being lethal. Even if you lose nobody to it, the heals as the result of Life Drain ticks will probably wipe you anyway.
Certainly Chromaggus doesn't require Decursive. The thing is, Chromaggus has about ten times the margin for error, and Sapphiron's Life Drain is nastier than any four Brood Afflictions combined. It's pretty clear that the encounter is designed to be won by cleansing Life Drain every time it happens in three seconds or less, a task that's nearly impossible without mods.
Core Mechanics Change via Patch - The Gnu - 11-04-2006
We're using decursive on Chromaggus, with assigned decursers to certain groups with the priority system. It's still very hard to decurse everyone before the first tick, even if you're spamming decurse even before it hits. If they change this functionality without changing Sapphiron, he'll pass Kel in difficulty by miles.
Core Mechanics Change via Patch - Malakar - 11-04-2006
I wouldn't worry about Sapphiron too much, I'm sure there will be enough whining to inspire a fix considering that this is coming in a patch before the expansion, and people will still be doing Naxx for lack of new content. That is unless the new PVP system throws guilds into widespread lack of attendence. But I bet there will still be a few guilds that can manage to gather enough people for Tier3 drops once or twice a week.
I'd imagine something like the delay before the tick being increased, possibly with an increase in the damage/healing if you let it slip.
A 3 second window for 10+ curses seems too low even with decursive. Not every guild is going to have the optimal number of decursers with low latency connections.