Jester Wrote:Does it surprise you, if these things have nothing to do with each other, that they are all operating under the same brand (Occupy Wherever), complaining about the same things (bailouts for the rich, cutbacks for the poor) and are happening at the same time?

[…]

I think it's pretty clear the economy sucks, people are suffering, and they're sick of seeing the "rescue" being something reserved for AIG and Goldman Sachs. Tax policy is some piece of this, but mostly, it's about the response to the crisis: Save the rich, let the poor go hang.

kandrathe Wrote:And, it's hilarious how mad these people are at the banks. The banks are suffering the most and are all about to go under due to new cash reserve requirements, zero percent interest and the imposition of Dodd/Frank restricting their income.

(10-17-2011, 05:27 AM)Taem Wrote: Taken from another thread.

Jester Wrote:Does it surprise you, if these things have nothing to do with each other, that they are all operating under the same brand (Occupy Wherever), complaining about the same things (bailouts for the rich, cutbacks for the poor) and are happening at the same time?

[…]

I think it's pretty clear the economy sucks, people are suffering, and they're sick of seeing the "rescue" being something reserved for AIG and Goldman Sachs. Tax policy is some piece of this, but mostly, it's about the response to the crisis: Save the rich, let the poor go hang.

kandrathe Wrote:And, it's hilarious how mad these people are at the banks. The banks are suffering the most and are all about to go under due to new cash reserve requirements, zero percent interest and the imposition of Dodd/Frank restricting their income.

I don't have television, so I get my news from the internet from the following sites: NPR News (center) and Fox News (far left) and CNN (right). Between the three, I feel fairly informed about most issues. The issue I'm having now is with Occupy Wallstreet. It was a vaguely mentioned movement in the last few weeks of almost unknown purpose which has had the ability to attract many followers.

So it finally hit home. Ventura and Santa Barbara counties are hosting Occupy [City Name] rallies in the courthouse parks in both county cities and I have to drive by them to make deposits at my works banks. They [many of the protesters] are holding up signs saying their tuition is too high. From my own personal observations, many of these protesters are college age students. Do they know it's the privatized (non-government) banks that hold your loans for banks? And that you can go to an non-accredited school for like 1/100th of the cost? Are they complaining about the fee the government charges the schools to get accreditation, or the fees the [private] (non-government) universities charge for their schooling, which has nothing to do with the government... If their issue is with the schools themselves, or perhaps the teachers and their pay rates, then why protest against the government? Perhaps their beef is with the banks that hold their student loans, but student loans are traditionally much lower than standard loans, and with current interest rates... WTF are they [student protesters] protesting about anyhow??? I don't get it!

Seems like others in the crowd are/were protesting the way Congress can't seem to agree on anything in this lame-duck season.

Again, others seem to be protesting bank fees and how your money is invested.

Others seem to be protesting the way Wallstreet runs, from hedge funds, to the system as a whole.

And others seem to be protesting the government giving money to banks.

While these systems share the common thread of money, they couldn't be more separate in terms of who runs them. Just because the government regulates certain aspects of each of these institutions does not make them the owners of said institutions.

It's pretty much pandemonium from what I can gather! No clear voice, just much dissidence aimed at nothing in-particular - perhaps people angry because they are out of work? I had a nice talk with my brother-in-law today whom told me he went to a rally in Santa Barbara yesterday to support the opposition to higher taxes and tuition fees. We had a nice talk about the tuition fee part, to which he yielded that the protest against the fees didn't make much sense in the overall spirit of what he feels is "the movement" (no more government controlling privatized institutions). Is this what Occupy Wallstreet is really all about? I don't know. I hoping someone here can explain it better to me, because at this point, it honestly just seems like a bunch of wankers on a worldwide scale.

(10-17-2011, 05:27 AM)Taem Wrote: It's pretty much pandemonium from what I can gather! No clear voice, just much dissidence aimed at nothing in-particular - perhaps people angry because they are out of work? I had a nice talk with my brother-in-law today whom told me he went to a rally in Santa Barbara yesterday to support the opposition to higher taxes and tuition fees. We had a nice talk about the tuition fee part, to which he yielded that the protest against the fees didn't make much sense in the overall spirit of what he feels is "the movement" (no more government controlling privatized institutions). Is this what Occupy Wallstreet is really all about? I don't know. I hoping someone here can explain it better to me, because at this point, it honestly just seems like a bunch of wankers on a worldwide scale.

(10-17-2011, 12:13 PM)Quark Wrote:

(10-17-2011, 05:27 AM)Taem Wrote: It's pretty much pandemonium from what I can gather! No clear voice, just much dissidence aimed at nothing in-particular - perhaps people angry because they are out of work? I had a nice talk with my brother-in-law today whom told me he went to a rally in Santa Barbara yesterday to support the opposition to higher taxes and tuition fees. We had a nice talk about the tuition fee part, to which he yielded that the protest against the fees didn't make much sense in the overall spirit of what he feels is "the movement" (no more government controlling privatized institutions). Is this what Occupy Wallstreet is really all about? I don't know. I hoping someone here can explain it better to me, because at this point, it honestly just seems like a bunch of wankers on a worldwide scale.

Read this:
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1

If you don't understand how our economic balance is absolutely horrible after reading that post, I don't know what to tell you. And no, I'm not touching the other thread. Kandrathe is in it.

(10-17-2011, 02:33 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote: *shrugs* So I see it as good of a day as any other to protest.

(10-17-2011, 06:35 AM)FireIceTalon Wrote: Its one big ponzi-scheme system, designed to shell out wage slave after wage slave to create a caste system of serfs and/or indentured servants to fund the war and oil machine, so politicians, bankers/hedge-fund managers, and transnational corporations continue suck the blood of the poor and what is left of the middle class (not much).

(10-17-2011, 04:02 PM)Ashock Wrote: It's a bunch of cretins who think that they are entitled to free *insert anything here*, without actually working for it or earning it.

They think that to get money or more money, they need to not work or to stop working, start protesting, and convince their friends to do the same, instead of working harder or redoubling their efforts to look for gainful enployement.

Coincidentally, that is also the difference between communists and capitalists.

BTW, I am 100% sure, that many of these people if given power, would kill countless others to enrish themselves.

After all, it's been done before.

(10-17-2011, 05:27 AM)Taem Wrote: ...

They [many of the protesters] are holding up signs saying their tuition is too high. From my own personal observations, many of these protesters are college age students. Do they know it's the privatized (non-government) banks that hold your loans for banks?

Quote:And that you can go to an non-accredited school for like 1/100th of the cost? Are they complaining about the fee the government charges the schools to get accreditation, or the fees the [private] (non-government) universities charge for their schooling, which has nothing to do with the government... If their issue is with the schools themselves, or perhaps the teachers and their pay rates, then why protest against the government?

Quote:Perhaps their beef is with the banks that hold their student loans, but student loans are traditionally much lower than standard loans, and with current interest rates... WTF are they [student protesters] protesting about anyhow??? I don't get it!

Quote:Seems like others in the crowd are/were protesting the way Congress can't seem to agree on anything in this lame-duck season.

Quote:Again, others seem to be protesting bank fees and how your money is invested.

Quote:Others seem to be protesting the way Wallstreet runs, from hedge funds, to the system as a whole.

Quote:And others seem to be protesting the government giving money to banks.

Quote:While these systems share the common thread of money, they couldn't be more separate in terms of who runs them. Just because the government regulates certain aspects of each of these institutions does not make them the owners of said institutions.

(10-17-2011, 04:12 PM)Taem Wrote: It has always been that way throughout history, and will always be that way.

Quark Wrote:And no, I'm not touching the other thread. Kandrathe is in it.

(10-17-2011, 06:47 PM)kandrathe Wrote: Some older data, but the trend is still true. Non-Federal would include state based loan programs and private loans. Stafford and PLUS are entirely the Feds directly acting as the banker. Private loans tend to be used for private programs not approved under Title IV (e.g. the Cordon Blah cooking school, or Automotive Repair Academy).

Quote:Most schools need to be accredited in order to participate in Title IV, and state based aid programs.

Quote:There is a direct relationship to bank fees and interest rates. Banks cannot make much money lending money, so they are moving more and more into fees. Interest rates are pegged to zero by the Federal Reserve.

Quote:So, yup, I think it's time to gather the villagers and march on the castle. Dr. Frankenstein is up to his old tricks messing up the laws of the economy again.

(10-17-2011, 07:03 PM)kandrathe Wrote:

(10-17-2011, 04:12 PM)Taem Wrote: It has always been that way throughout history, and will always be that way.

The one thing that is different now is in our ability to improve our lot. Social mobility is on the decline, meaning that it's increasingly harder to be successful enough to raise your standard of living, or that of your progeny. That is the American Dream denied. That leads to wage slavery, an entrenched entitlement class and hopelessness.

(10-17-2011, 04:12 PM)Taem Wrote:

(10-17-2011, 06:35 AM)FireIceTalon Wrote: Its one big ponzi-scheme system, designed to shell out wage slave after wage slave to create a caste system of serfs and/or indentured servants to fund the war and oil machine, so politicians, bankers/hedge-fund managers, and transnational corporations continue suck the blood of the poor and what is left of the middle class (not much).

You do realize, don't you, that there has never been a time in America's [discovered] history where we haven't "used" a lower class of people to do our dirty work? From the native Americans, to negro slaves, to Mexican immigrants, to exporting business overseas. What your preaching is nothing new. So now the lower class wants to be elitists also with the coming of the twitter age? Well our economy was built on slaves and a lower-class, that much you will have to live with rather you like it or not. Altering that formula can and will result in catastrophic imbalance leading into Communism IMO. There must always be a lower-working class to support a higher-class. It has always been that way throughout history, and will always be that way. Everyone cannot be equal unfortunately, and forcing equality in wage pay, taxes, and other subsidiaries IS the heart and soul of Communism, and we all know how well that works out. Is that really what these Occupy Wallstreet gurus are asking for? Because the more I think about it, the more I read the posts here trying to explain what Occupy Wallstreet is all about, the more that is what it's sounding like. A ploy at equality equating to nothing more than Communism, plain and simple. Am I wrong?

EDIT: Sometimes I rant, and it all sounds good to me in the moment, but after an hour or two, I come back and read what I wrote and realize I was too brash. I apologize FireIceTalon if I came across as such. I was not trying to single you or your opinion out and I am grateful that you shared your example of the Occupy movement with me.

(10-17-2011, 04:23 PM)Taem Wrote:

(10-17-2011, 04:02 PM)Ashock Wrote: It's a bunch of cretins who think that they are entitled to free *insert anything here*, without actually working for it or earning it.

They think that to get money or more money, they need to not work or to stop working, start protesting, and convince their friends to do the same, instead of working harder or redoubling their efforts to look for gainful enployement.

Coincidentally, that is also the difference between communists and capitalists.

BTW, I am 100% sure, that many of these people if given power, would kill countless others to enrish themselves.

After all, it's been done before.

So far after doing some more research, I'm in agreement with you, however there are some valid points at the heart of the Occupy movement, mainly separating Government from all forms of the privatized industry, making The Man as transparent as possible. As Kathandrake has pointed out before, I'd even go so far as to remove them from the DMV, Healthcare, all sectors except judicial, foreign policy, and military.**

I think it is equally as important to give more power back to the states and to take it away from the Feds. Each state needs their own militia back as per the Constitution, not just a reserve corp the feds can use at their whim! Each state should be able to make their own laws, such as California's medical marijuana laws. Each state should have the power they were granted in the original Constitution of the United States where each state was viewed as a separate, yet unified entity (i.e. country).

**EDIT: I wanted to add to this. I think regulation is still a government function (such as the FDA, EPA, etc) to protect the citizens nationally. Let the industries do their thing, but give them guidelines.

(10-17-2011, 07:51 PM)Taem Wrote: I have always felt that each institution should do on the job training internship. Once that level of education has been completed, the trainee gets hired at the bottom level tier and can work their way up by taking paid for classes that come directly out of their paycheck. The training classes would be offered through the company and focus primarily on the role the position requires, thus training the student would cost the company nothing, and the student, having such personalized and direct instruction, could learn what they needed to know is less than a years time, perhaps even just a couple months.

Quote:I never thought this was a good idea [low interest rate]. The fed trying to stir the populace into spending money, the populace trying to get loans to stir the economy, the banks saying NO because they aren't making any money on the deal because the interest rates are too low. Makes no sense! But this is a problem brought on by the Obama administration, why bring protest against the system as a whole?

Quote:Are you serious or being sarcastic?

Quote:Do you see any other way? Everyone cannot be equal!

Quote:Even now, we outsource as many jobs as we can to countries where the minimum wage is less than a dollar an hour to save money!

Quote:If suddenly there became a one-world government ...

Quote:There HAS to be a lower-class for the world to move. It sucks, but it's true!

(10-17-2011, 04:02 PM)Ashock Wrote: It's a bunch of cretins who think that they are entitled to free *insert anything here*, without actually working for it or earning it.

They think that to get money or more money, they need to not work or to stop working, start protesting, and convince their friends to do the same, instead of working harder or redoubling their efforts to look for gainful enployement.

Coincidentally, that is also the difference between communists and capitalists.

BTW, I am 100% sure, that many of these people if given power, would kill countless others to enrish themselves.

After all, it's been done before.