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The First Offensive! It has happened! - Occhidiangela - 03-20-2003
No, not tanks rolling, I refer to
THE ATTACK OF THE TALKING HEADS!!!
Just got back into town this evening, from a short vacation in the Hill Country of Texas, out near Fredericksburg, and I flipped on the Telly.
Surfed about 15 channels that are all about news and such.
The talking heads have left the line of departure and are assailing the airways with "expertise" and punditry galore.
Retired VADM McGinn, ex Sec Def Weinberger, a retired master sergeant who was in on the first Delta Force unit, and a host of others are firing away with all of their collective wisdom.
Oh joy, every guy selling ads for CNN et al will be raising the rates. Forgive me if I miss Ernie Pyle and Bob Galloway.
In other news, a troop movement across the Kuwaiti border:
KUWAIT (Reuters) - Seventeen Iraqi soldiers have given themselves up to U.S.-led forces in northern Kuwait, U.S. military sources confirmed on Wednesday.
No further details were immediately available.
Huzzah???
Or should we say . . . seventeen down, a few hundred thousand not ready to cash in their chips just yet?
Some friends of mine ended up on Karuh Island during the 1991 edition of the Gulf War, where they found some Iraqi soldiers who were most willing to hang up their cleats: their officers had abandoned them, and they had not eaten in four days, had not had water for two.
I wonder what it feels like to be the average Iraqi lance corporal right now. I have a hunch that it is . . . no picnic. (No further references to the Rocky Horror Picture Show will be made in this post.)
The First Offensive! It has happened! - Rhydderch Hael - 03-20-2003
Freakin' hell...
They lobbed some BGM-109s at Baghdad tonight, and now all the broadcast channels are playing nothing but feeds from the cable news networks. Brought me back to some Gulf War flashbacks where my favorite danged TV shows get pre-empted for news. The "news" being the same old farts saying the same old thing every ten minutes, with no new developments coming in for hours at a time!
They pre-empted "King of the Hill", dangit.
Now, I'm all for the public getting their information fix through the media. But if we really wanted to watch the news nonstop, we'd flip onto one of the hundreds of the cable news networks that have cropped up between now and 1991. I don't need my entertainment derailed by news feeds to a cable news channel that I could otherwise flip my got-danged TV set to!
They don't even break for commericals in these instances, so how could ratings be the issue? Sheesh!
The First Offensive! It has happened! - yangman - 03-20-2003
The only times they've pre-empted a good broadcast of classical music was to bring you an even better broadcast of a live concert. :lol:
The First Offensive! It has happened! - Nicodemus Phaulkon - 03-20-2003
I'm in a small town (village, really). My choice of cable television is thus: take it or leave it... and that'll be 35 a month, thankeesomuch.
so... 34 channels. 21 of them are running the same repetative crap over and over again. The majority seem to be using CNN's feed. Oh, with the exception of Fox, who's streaming the message at the bottom that American Idol is NOT pre-empted and please stay tuned to watch it.
So! After much desperate channel switching between Viking postulations on Discovery, a rerun on A&E, soccer on TSN and Toby Keith on CMT ( I refused to watch whatever the hell that was on Muchmusic), I sat and stared at the Shopping Channel for 10 minutes.
Then came back here to hurt things in Act 5. Much more civilized, in my humble opinion.
The First Offensive! It has happened! - Dani - 03-20-2003
I think it morally reprehensible that people are making money covering it.
Hope the reporters get hit by a misguided bomb. :( Then they can report about their own deaths. :( :( :(
The First Offensive! It has happened! - Elric of Grans - 03-20-2003
Hail Rhydderch,
"Brought me back to some Gulf War flashbacks where my favorite danged TV shows get pre-empted for news."
I myself am looking like suffering that fate soon. I have been informed that the final of the ICC (Cricket) World Cup is not going to be on TV because there shall be war updates (ODI Matches like this take all day to play, so if we are not getting it...it's a whole day of war BS). I have been waiting FOUR YEARS for this event. WORLD RECORDS have already been set, and are expected to be broken in the match. The two greatest forces in world Cricket are coming against each other for the first time in three years - and they have scores to settle after the last time - and it'll not be on because we are going to get some fuzzy image feed of Americans blowing up Iraqi civilians. Yay!
Now, those that know me know that I am a fanatical Cricket follower: I put Cricket before EVERYTHING else in my life, so this is about the worst form of terrorism for me. In all seriousness, if some terrorists were to blow up the building I am in this very moment, and I were either killed or left severely debilitated, it would not upset me as much as missing out on one of the biggest events in Cricket. Damn it, I just know that Sachin Tendulkar is going to go out there and give the best performance of batting seen since The Don himself was walking out to the crease. Brett Lee is going to bowl some swinging thunderbolts that threaten serious injury, or exciting Cricket. If Australia wins, they'll be the first nation to win three times; if they lose, India's victory shall be one of the biggest events in world Cricket for decades to come.
But no, we have to watch a jet drop a bomb on a building. Gee, that says a lot about us as a civilisation, doesn't it? Zimbabwe has a leader that is cauing civil distress; we sent our Cricket team and watched it. Iraq is quite similar, and we send soldiers...again we watch it. Both, in my opinion, are wrong, but I am sure you can work out which I feel is the greater wrong.
*goes of muttering to himself*
The First Offensive! It has happened! - Rhydderch Hael - 03-20-2003
Aye, I reflect these sentiments, and if someone were to say, "How callous of you! To quibble over TV shows and sports matches when THIS is going on in the world!" I would have to look at them askance.
It's not like I'm advocating a news blackout. Just pointing out that cable news has exploded into a multi-market cash cow that can saturate the airwaves with, of course, what will be the same exact message repeated over and over again.
If I wanted to fret and worry about the war front 24/7, there are plenty of places that will happily accomondate. It becomes a matter of choice...
And I choose to go on with my normal life. Isn't that what all the politicians ask us to do? To go on with our daily lives because once we surrender our peace of mind, the terrorists win? How does one accomplish that when we are forced-fed the work of the panic-mongers of cable news TV?
I'm doing my patriotic American duty by not giving a rat's-ass, am I not? ;)
The ballistics computer of an General Dynamics M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank takes inputted data from a laser rangerfinder, tracking motion of the gun turret, a windage sensor centered behind the ammo bustle, an internal dual-axial tilt sensor, and a laser-spotted droop sensor on the barrel of the Rhienmetall M256 120mm smoothboreâall calculated in order to extrapolate the visual image on the Gunner's Primary Sight (GPS) against the main gun's superelevation and rotational lead offset for accurate gunlaying...
...Is my subconscious worrying and cheerleading 12,000 miles away going to make any difference when that Sergeant lays the GPS on an Iraqi T-72, shouts "On the way!" and slams an M829 APFSDS round through the Iraqi's turret? Am I gonna be the key difference that spells "hit" or "miss"? Am I thus enslaved to that purpose, to fret over forces I have no real sway over?
The First Offensive! It has happened! - Albion Child - 03-20-2003
Albion Child, bad language and personal attacks will not be accepted at the Lurker Lounge.
-Griselda
The First Offensive! It has happened! - yangman - 03-20-2003
Albion Child,Mar 19 2003, 10:58 PM Wrote:Also, though you seem to thin that 17 surrendering Iraqui soldiers is insignifigant, I as you precisely how many Americans have surrendered? Z E R O!That's because they havn't even MOVED IN to the battle ground.
How do individual soldiers surrender when the enemy is no where in their sight?
I'm going to go with Rhydderch on this one: we start worrying our silly heads off, and the terroists win. <_<
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm getting myself to bed after I enjoy a few more minutes of quality Jazz, brought to me by my local government owned radio station. We might not like them, but at least some of them are smart enough to devote resources to bring their citizens some tasteful music.
The First Offensive! It has happened! - AtomicKitKat - 03-20-2003
A: Get off your damn high horse.
B: Lose the masked vulgarities unless you want a quick trip to ban-ban land.
C: Nobody here gives a flying fig what you think about their opinions. You have yours, they have theirs, I have mine.
Personally, I couldn't care less about this war, because the outcome will be the same. The ME will still be an unstable region, hundreds, thousands, possibly even 1 million Iraqis will die, and meanwhile the bigwigs calling the shots are safely ensconced behind 3 m thick concrete walls with an additional 2 m of titanium steel alloy protecting them. You damn bastard politicians need to get off your asses and go straight into a ring/arena and settle your differences like REAL MEN(or women, as the case may be)
*goes back to hexing Bush's pretzels*
The First Offensive! It has happened! - Rhydderch Hael - 03-20-2003
Albion Child, there's a difference between understanding a war and understanding what you can do about it... You've refused to separate yourself from what you can and cannot control in this life when it comes to the war.
Aside from paying taxes, there's not much else I can physically do to further the military operations or political agendas of my government and country. In the most pragmatic sense, how does gluing my butt in front of CNN's banner for non-stop marathons of doing nothing but quake in my undies "win the war!?"
They won't let me in a front-line combat unit, no matter how much I have (and had) desired to (I lay you 8 to 5 odds which section of the Army I wanted to sign in on). That has rather cheesed me on the whole matter of participation. They won't let me participate, so my emotional investment here home can do nothing to contribute. It will only detract from my personal advancement without furthering anyone elses'.
And if you automatically equate apathy with ignorance, I will gently remind you of my previous points that, in a fair and smart world, the information the media commits to us should be a choice, not a mandate of ratings and attention-grabbing. I've seen it, dude. Seen absence of information played in a continuous loop as the news engines idle around, waiting for news that I have no influence over and that I can just as readily and easily digest tomorrow in the printed paper, rather than absorb it with the instant-horror of live TV coverage.
One may be mistaken that I'd go to a movie or stroll idly through the streets, completely blissful in ignorance of the duty and sacrifice of the thousands of young people who stand before the spears of war in defense of me. But while the body denies, the dark spark that lays in my breast still burns with a fury I know not many could fathom, nor I wish most people to ever know...I'm not happy doing nothing, being able to do nothing, nor asked to submit my strengths to the call because they fear I will fail them. So don't even dare to imply that I'm leeching off the blood and sweat of others, not when I have heart to tear a swath through all who threaten the lives of all that I love! But furthermore, those who bear the strength and arms to inflict harm must be the servants of the peaceful and powerless citizens they are sworn to defend. The day when the military bears dominion over the civilian, where he who serves comes to believe that he is the one who rules, is the day America truly lies in peril.
The First Offensive! It has happened! - The Luminaire - 03-20-2003
No, seriously, its way more fun.
But to be serious, war is a big deal. But making a big deal about other people not making a big deal about it doesnt really help any, eh?
Yes, people die in war, on both sides, and sometimes those that have no side die. It happens, and its part of the cost of war. Sometimes its justified, sometimes not, but thats for another post. Get off the high and mighty routine, and get over it.
Like I said in my other post, its all about choice. They have a right to their opinion, and you cant force them to think otherwise. That said, I cant force you to to think otherwise either. But I can present my case, and *my* opinion, and hope for the best. A word the wise should be sufficient.
Oh, and watch your language. I dont care how its spelled. :)
*edit* Rydd beat me to it :). The worst thing that we can do to feed terrorists is exactly that. Terror. Refuse to make an issue out of it, and we've won half the battle.
The First Offensive! It has happened! - Elric of Grans - 03-20-2003
Hail Albion Child,
War? Really? That's new: I've not seen one of them before. Please, give me a break! There has not been a time without war in so long, I doubt many alive can remember what a true peace-time is like.
17 Iraqi soldiers? Holy smokes, the war is over already: without those 17, they shall be completely unable to defend, and there is no longer any need for the coalition to invade. Very significant I agree.
Actually, I'm in Australia: though our troops are there, we - the people - are for the most part *against* the war. I don't know about Americans, but as we do not want it, why the hell should we give up our lives for it? Oh, that's right: because Saddam Hussein tried to kill Bush Snr - I almost forgot the real issue here. Rights and freedom? Riiight. The only people fighting for their rights and freedom are the Iraqi people, and I seem to find them to be your enemy, so why are you supporting them now? By the way, what's the difference between this, and Hitler's pre-emptive stike on Poland again?
No, it's not big news. Humanity getting a grip, that would be big news. Peace, that would be news-worthy. The Americans invade Iraq to get cheap oil? Pfft, I'd rather watch Mr Ed reruns - that horse sure had a good sense of humour!
The First Offensive! It has happened! - Roland - 03-20-2003
...you've truly been a disgrace to this board ever since you've come here. I don't think I've seen a topic yet where you DIDN'T get your rear handed to you for spouting off some nonsensical drivel. Why don't you take the hint? Or is it too subtle?
Let me make it clear for you:
Shape up, or ship out.
The First Offensive! It has happened! - Nystul - 03-20-2003
How so? Should the media never cover tragedies and wars, or should all journalists work for free? They are getting paid to do their job, just like any other day of the week. If the media weren't covering this, then everyone would be like "Hey didn't we go to war? Are we still fighting? Did we win or lose? Are we all communists yet?"
Personally I think some of the journalists have to be a little bit insane to be covering this conflict from inside enemy territory, but I don't hold it against them.
The First Offensive! It has happened! - AtomicKitKat - 03-20-2003
*waves to Elric* Heya, which part of Oz do you hail from? I have a couple of friends over there, and they're against the war too(one protested in that 100k march with a banner her grandmother had made for the Vietnam war!)
Over here all the news is on the free-to-air 24 hour news channel(same as they did with 9/11), with very short 2 minute "breaking news" in between the shows on my main English channel(watching the kid's channel in the daytime, I get NO war news, yay!)
The First Offensive! It has happened! - Occhidiangela - 03-20-2003
Dear AlbionChild:
"Your radio set has two modes: Transmit and Receive. Your transmissions are garbled. Try turning up the gain on the Receive mode." :)
Being a bloody opinionated rogue myself, I don't object to strong opinions, but their packaging is of interest to us all here at the Lounge.
The First Offensive! It has happened! - SteinHerz - 03-20-2003
I've always new this operation was imminent. What most shocked me is the fact that all the work UN inspectors have done in Iraq in the past months was totally useless. Wouldn't matter having found VX gas or IRBMs or not - the war was imminent.
So... UN has no real purpose. Even having China, France and Russia to vote against the offensive, US didn't give a damn about it.
Also, IMHO the argument that was used is utterly ridiculous. "Attack the potential enemies before they attack you".
There hasn't been proved a single connection with the Iraqi Government and the Al-Qaeda terrorist organization. So any potential US enemy would be the countries that are part of the "Evil Axis" as president Bush mentioned. Now I really want to see they dare to do something with NK...
Anything Iraq can possibly do at this moment can be considered legitimate self defense. And I won't be impressed if they launch some mustard gas over the american forces.
Know what is really ironical about all this?
The greatest american enemies of these days were actually some of the best allies over 20 years ago. That would include Bin Laden and the Mujahedin, whom were supported against the soviets and Saddam Hussein against Khomeini during the Iran X Iraq. The puppies were fed but grew stronger and hostile...
I have no clue about what is going to happen in the following days. I am sure the primary targets to disable the country will be radar transmitters and power plants. Also, a very likely movement from Hussein would be set fire on the oil - just like he did 12 years ago...
The First Offensive! It has happened! - pakman - 03-20-2003
At least Futurama was still on last night :P
The First Offensive! It has happened! - Elric of Grans - 03-20-2003